White House shines rainbow colors to hail same-sex marriage ruling

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Path_Finder said:
When Same Sex Marriage was voted on by the Public I believe over 20 or 30 times, people only voted for it 2 times.

We have this imposed on us only by courts and not public opinion.

That youth are for it, sure didn’t pan out in those votes.
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That may be true, but I don’t think it’s a good point to rest an argument on, because it can change. Once the majority of people actually do think it’s okay (and I believe they do, unless it just somehow is the case that a vast majority of internet users are liberal and conservatives just have better things to do, or are too afraid to say what they think) then you can’t really use that argument anymore.
 
laircy said:
You keep saying that. Majority vote doesn’t determine the truth.
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I heard a Catholic clergyman on EWTN tonight say the majority of the SCOTUS doesn’t determine truth. God does. In that case in the whole grand scheme of things, there isn’t much to be concerned about regarding a SCOTUS ruling.
 
Birdpreacher said:
Hate to break it to ya bro, but you’re right about (some) of the founding fathers wanting a christian nation. The majority of those HATED CATHOLICS. And cringed at the idea of Catholic Schools indoctrinating kids and thwarting the whole democratic system.
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BTW - Catholic schools don’t indoctrinate. Sometimes I wish they would, but they don’t. Also, you can’t “indoctrinate” people of your own faith. Indoctrinating children is when schools teach children what they parents do NOT want them learning. When Catholic parents send their kids to Catholic school, they typically are expecting their kids to receive a Catholic education.

However, when we send our kids to public school, we are NOT expecting them to be converted to a different religion or to secularism, or have their religious/moral beliefs challenged and undermined.
 
Birdpreacher said:
No it doen’t. Every person gets to define their own truth. You choose to the definitions of a church, others do not.
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Lol… Why is it that we don’t think like this when it comes to math or science, but once it comes to morality suddenly humans have the supernatural ability to create an alternate reality and call it “their own truth.” Why does “every person get to define their own truth”? That in itself is an attempt at an objective claim, that simultaneously denies objective reality. It’s logically absurd.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I heard a Catholic clergyman on EWTN tonight say the majority of the SCOTUS doesn’t determine truth. God does. In that case in the whole grand scheme of things, there isn’t much to be concerned about regarding a SCOTUS ruling.
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Is this a revelation to you - that God determines what is true? All Christians believe that, no?
 
laircy said:
Lol… Why is it that we don’t think like this when it comes to math or science, but once it comes to morality suddenly humans have the supernatural ability to create an alternate reality and call it “their own truth.” Why does “every person get to define their own truth”? That in itself is an attempt at an objective claim, that simultaneously denies objective reality. It’s logically absurd.
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Like white people who think they are black…
 
laircy said:
That may be true, but I don’t think it’s a good point to rest an argument on, because it can change. Once the majority of people actually do think it’s okay (and I believe they do, unless it just somehow is the case that a vast majority of internet users are liberal and conservatives just have better things to do, or are too afraid to say what they think) then you can’t really use that argument anymore.
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Both
 
laircy said:
Lol… Why is it that we don’t think like this when it comes to math or science, but once it comes to morality suddenly humans have the supernatural ability to create an alternate reality and call it “their own truth.” Why does “every person get to define their own truth”? That in itself is an attempt at an objective claim, that simultaneously denies objective reality. It’s logically absurd.
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Because matters of faith and belief are not equal to math and science.
 
Birdpreacher said:
No it doen’t. Every person gets to define their own truth. You choose to the definitions of a church, others do not.
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This is a very interesting comment. I’m thinking of all the ways a person might determine their own reality…
  1. Speed limit
  2. Nudity in public
  3. Claiming to have cancer or other illness and demanding chemo/meds
  4. Walking into another person’s house and claiming it as yours
  5. Deciding a dog/child are be safe left in a hot car
  6. Deciding one’s own level of satisfactory work in the workplace or in school
  7. Defining admission requirements for an Ivy League school
Is there anything we can do without running into a reality check???
 
Sy_Noe said:
Because matters of faith and belief are not equal to math and science.
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Maybe in certainty to us, but ultimately matters of faith and belief either correspond to reality or they don’t, and that is certain. Pretending that they are some separate domain where anything goes isn’t going to help anyone.

… And since the matters seem so confusing to us, it would make sense that the Author of reality would give us some hints. Such as, an infallible Church. But yes, not everyone ends up realizing the truth of the Church. In the meantime, we have natural law which is determined by Reason, something common to all. And reason certainly eliminates the option of relativism because it refutes itself.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Because matters of faith and belief are not equal to math and science.
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Not true. God either exists or He doesn’t. Jesus is either the Son of God or He isn’t. Sodomy is either a sin or it isn’t.

Just like 2 + 2 either equals 4 or it doesn’t. The Big Bang either happened of it didn’t.

Reality is black and white, which is why many people like math. You are either right or wrong.

But Physics really has more in common with Theology than it does with math. In both Physics and Theology, it’s very hard to prove anything. Faith comes into play with both.

The difference between physics and theology is simply the language used. Physics uses math and theology uses history, philosophy and poetry.

Truth is truth. The really question is do we have Faith in the evidence given to support our theories/theology? So is Christ the Son of God or not? Is sodomy mortally sinful or not?

I believe the evidence that says yes
 
phil19034 said:
Not true. God either exists or He doesn’t. Jesus is either the Son of God or He isn’t. Sodomy is either a sin or it isn’t.

Just like 2 + 2 either equals 4 or it doesn’t. The Big Bang either happened of it didn’t.

Reality is black and white, which is why many people like math. You are either right or wrong.

But Physics really has more in common with Theology than it does with math. In both Physics and Theology, it’s very hard to prove anything. Faith comes into play with both.

The difference between physics and theology is simply the language used. Physics uses math and theology uses history, philosophy and poetry.

Truth is truth. The really question is do we have Faith in the evidence given to support our theories/theology? So is Christ the Son of God or not? Is sodomy mortally sinful or not?

I believe the evidence that says yes
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Thank you, I think you put it more clearly than I did. 👍
 
laircy said:
Maybe in certainty to us, but ultimately matters of faith and belief either correspond to reality or they don’t, and that is certain. Pretending that they are some separate domain where anything goes isn’t going to help anyone.

… And since the matters seem so confusing to us, it would make sense that the Author of reality would give us some hints. Such as, an infallible Church. But yes, not everyone ends up realizing the truth of the Church. In the meantime, we have natural law which is determined by Reason, something common to all. And reason certainly eliminates the option of relativism because it refutes itself.
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No, I don’t believe reason eliminates the option of cultural relativism. The latter exists and I think it is reasonable for us to attempt to understand and appreciate the differences in religious beliefs and rituals, moral values, customs, ways of thinking about oneself and the world, language, emotional expression, motivational drives, and child-rearing practices based on cultural differences.
 
TarkanAttila said:
And I’m fairly sure the man knows a major part of the country - granted, a minority, but almost half the country - opposes this idea. The nerve of this guy.
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Not to mention he said he opposed this idea when he was running for office. He either plainly lied or simply allows his morality to flow with the wind (like the majority of the democrats)
 
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