Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S

[josie_L]

From the statement put out by the terrorists (found on your link)- “And we will take with us the lives of hundreds of sinners.”

From the same link- Moskovskij Komsomolets cited a Russian special forces operative saying that “if it were a usual storming, we’d have had 150 casualties among our men, added to the hostages.”

The only real controversy over the incident seems to be that the Russians used gas and that there was a cover up afterwards (either over the use of the gas, mistakes made during the operation, some of the terrorists getting away).

I said there were other alternatives that the Russians could have taken, other than violence, i.e., was there no way the Russians could have moved their forces out of Chechyna, i.e., more than 600 people died in the gas attack, (and this was 4 days after the hostage takeover).

 

[donsnow]

First off, what is the difference between a psychological condition and a physical? Isn’t the brain a part of the body? Second, what you are saying is very different then most psychologists.

One question for the pro-Russia folks. What is Putin doing to promote Christian values besides opposing gay rights (which isn’t a Christian value in my opinion)? What is he doing for the poor and vulnerable? Also, Jesus said that whatever you do to the least of your brothers you do to me. Wouldn’t you consider one of the most despised subsets of the population to be the least among the people. Will we not be judged by how we treat them?

I guess to me there’s a lot more to Christianity than homosexuality.

Good afternoon, J_Peterson,

He’s allowing Church attendance, in support of Christian values, for one thing.
Since the propaganda of the Gay Rights movement, not the people, is a one way express way to hellfire, it is a Christian value to oppose the rhetoric which drags people down.
I don’t know what he’s doing for the poor and vulnerable.
Yes, and Jesus stipulated what things he referred to, and enabling sin is not one of them.
No, there are sinners worse and less than gays in the Kingdom.
Jesus says, “Judge not, lest you be so judged.” We are expected to withstand evil without accusations of being judgmental, too.

In my mind, I question other Christians who do not see the red flag of pride in the Gay Rights movement, much less in gay pride. I care about all sinners, including gays. Don’t you realize that supporting gay pride and supporting the Gay Rights movement is just as wrong as supporting wife swapping, or as supporting other sexual sins?

God loves you,
Don

 

[donsnow]

I think this is totally unfair, and misrepresenting the entire situation of that hostage crisis. Someone reading this might think the Russian authorities just slaughtered civilians haphazardly.

You are referring to the Moscow theater hostage crisis. And for those who don’t know about it, Chechen terrorists, including suicide bombers held those (I believe 850 or so) in the theater hostage. Any attempt by the Russian authorities to storm the building and save the hostages would have meant the suicide bombers would detonate their bombs, killing all of the hostages. The Russian plan to end the standoff was to pump a chemical into the ventilation system to subdue the terrorists, the chemical ended up killing nearly all of the terrorists, and unfortunately 130 civilians died as well (but many more lived of the 850 I believe). The use of this tactic was criticized, but honestly, what wiggle room was there?

I can’t imagine many more complicated moral dilemmas than this. Try to storm the building conventionally, and you risk everyone dying, give in to their demands and who knows if they keep their word. I really don’t see how people can say this is a clear black mark on Putin’s record. I think drone strikes, which kill civilians and are chalked up as collateral damage have more room for moral criticism than the method used to take down these terrorists.

 

[donsnow]

The United States is not morally bankrupt, i.e., they are many Americans who are attempting to make things better (your present government however is pursuing an immoral course).

p.s. Just look at the pro-life advocates and all they are accomplishing, i.e., more and more clinics are closing and more and more people are becoming pro-life.

Good afternoon, josie,

In that our leadership in both major political parties are morally bankrupt; and in that our entertainment and news media are morally bankrupt; and in that our education system has become morally bankrupt; then, we have a country with some Christians, Jews, atheists and other conservatives striving against the moral bankruptcy of our nation. Imo.

God loves you,
Don

 

[Lormar]

Good afternoon, josie,

In that our leadership in both major political parties are morally bankrupt; and in that our entertainment and news media are morally bankrupt; and in that our education system has become morally bankrupt; then, we have a country with some Christians, Jews, atheists and other conservatives striving against the moral bankruptcy of our nation. Imo.

God loves you,
Don

 

[josie_L]

Since you do not have to provide facts because of the internet. Here you go.:

lifesitenews.com/news/russia-chooses-life-bans-all-abortion-advertising

lifesitenews.com/news/vladimir-putin-signs-bill-protecting-children-from-homosexual-propaganda

lifesitenews.com/news/russia-will-deport-foreigners-for-homosexual-propaganda-duma-passes-bill-43

thefederalist-gary.blogspot.com/2013/12/vladimir-putin-signs-anti-abortion-bill.html

not only that but
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/skip-work-have-sex-russians-celebrate-day-of-conception-as-sporting-community-continues-to-criticise-putins-antigay-legislation-8812840.html

Hmmm Sounds pretty pro life to me More pro life than obama. Can you imagine obama doing this?

Then we have this for the Christians.
lifesitenews.com/news/world-leaders-should-unite-to-end-anti-christian-persecution-vladimir-putin

Id call that a home run on all your topics.

All I had to do was find them on the internet. So now they are knowable to you.

Two, of these are related to banning abortion advertisements, which is a good thing, although the government is not legislating against abortion. Moreover, I believe the recent ban has more to do with demography than it does morality, i.e, I don’t think there are doing this from a moral standpoint (and if I’m not mistaken, and I could be, there are more abortions in Russia than there are live births). Here’s a bit of information concerning statistics in Russia viz a viz abortion:

Despite a significant reduction in the abortion to birth ratio since the mid-1990s, the countries of the former Soviet Union maintain the highest rate of abortions in the world. In 2001, 1.31 million children were born in Russia, while 2.11 million abortions were performed.[20] In 2005, 1.6 million abortions were registered in Russia;[4] 20% of these involved girls under the age of 18.[21] Official statistics put the number at 989,000 in 2011,[4] though Russian pro-life activists say that number is much higher.[19]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia

There are probably 1 000 000 abortions in Russia today (with a population of about 145 000 000), so you can see why the Russians are banning abortion advertisements, i.e., they will become extinct if they don’t.

p.s. What is the abortion rate in the U.S. (something a little over 1 000 000 or so, right, with a population of about 360 000 000)? And there has been amongst the Americans if not the American government, a push for further abortion restrictions, which I think is possible considering the increase of pro-lifers in America (especially amongst the youth).

 

[josie_L]

Good afternoon, josie,

In that our leadership in both major political parties are morally bankrupt; and in that our entertainment and news media are morally bankrupt; and in that our education system has become morally bankrupt; then, we have a country with some Christians, Jews, atheists and other conservatives striving against the moral bankruptcy of our nation. Imo.

God loves you,
Don

But then the US is not morally bankrupt, i.e., as long as you have good people willing to fight then you have hope and the possibility for moral progress.

God loves you too!

Josie

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Two, of these are related to banning abortion advertisements, which is a good thing (although I wasn’t aware that the U.S. allowed outright abortion advertisements, i.e., wouldn’t these advertisements cause major issues amongst the majority of Americans who are pro-life?). Moreover, I believe the recent ban has more to do with demography than it does morality, i.e, I don’t think there are doing this from a moral standpoint (and if I’m not mistaken, and I could be, there are more abortions in Russia than there are live births). Here’s a bit of information concerning statistics in Russia viz a viz abortion:

There are probably about 1 000 000 abortions in Russia today (with a population of about 145 000 000), so you can see why the Russians are banning abortion advertisements, i.e., they will become extinct if they don’t.

You can guess at the motives. Sure, but you cannot deny the steps being taken. And honestly who cares about the motives.

Canada aborts about 1 in three pregnancies. Couple that with free contraception and you have the same problem russia has. A dying country. You really should broaden your knowledge on the subject. Russia is warning us not to follow them. We should listen. Look at your own backyard and see what is happening.

Now as for the advertisments, I drive by 3 pro choice billboards and 2 planned parenthood clinics advertising abortions every day. I suppose it could upset people like me that are pro life, but our government will label us terrorists if we vocalize our displeasure. Not to mention we are not welcome in New York per the governor.

Now tell me again how bad russia has it?

 

[Catolico65]

Two, of these are related to banning abortion advertisements, which is a good thing, although the government is not legislating against abortion. Moreover, I believe the recent ban has more to do with demography than it does morality, i.e, I don’t think there are doing this from a moral standpoint (and if I’m not mistaken, and I could be, there are more abortions in Russia than there are live births). Here’s a bit of information concerning statistics in Russia viz a viz abortion:

There are probably 1 000 000 abortions in Russia today (with a population of about 145 000 000), so you can see why the Russians are banning abortion advertisements, i.e., they will become extinct if they don’t.

p.s. What is the abortion rate in the U.S. (something a little over 1 000 000 or so, right, with a population of about 360 000 000)? And there has been amongst the Americans if not the American government, a push for further abortion restrictions, which I think is possible considering the increase of pro-lifers in America (especially amongst the youth).

Russia passed a law in 2011 that bans child sacrifices after 12 weeks except in special case. Furthermore, while they have had exceedingly high child sacrifice rates that has declined rapidly, especially with the new law. Unlike in the US, Russia is heading in the right direction. I believe it was because of the consecration to the Virgin Mary.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/markadomanis/files/2013/02/abortions1.png

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Two, of these are related to banning abortion advertisements, which is a good thing, although the government is not legislating against abortion. Moreover, I believe the recent ban has more to do with demography than it does morality, i.e, I don’t think there are doing this from a moral standpoint (and if I’m not mistaken, and I could be, there are more abortions in Russia than there are live births). Here’s a bit of information concerning statistics in Russia viz a viz abortion:

There are probably 1 000 000 abortions in Russia today (with a population of about 145 000 000), so you can see why the Russians are banning abortion advertisements, i.e., they will become extinct if they don’t.

p.s. What is the abortion rate in the U.S. (something a little over 1 000 000 or so, right, with a population of about 360 000 000)? And there has been amongst the Americans if not the American government, a push for further abortion restrictions, which I think is possible considering the increase of pro-lifers in America (especially amongst the youth).

See here is the problem with cherry picking your info in the internet like you suggested. That Wiki article is not current it does not list Putin at all and under recent events says

The abortion issue has gained renewed attention in 2011 in a debate that the New York Times says “has begun to sound like the debate in the United States”.[19] Parliament passed and President Dmitri Medvedev signed several restrictions on abortion into law to combat “a falling birthrate” and “plunging population”.[19] The restrictions include requiring abortion providers to devote 10% of advertising costs to describing the dangers of abortion to a woman’s health and make it illegal to describe abortion as a safe medical procedure. Medvedev’s wife Svetlana Medvedeva has taken up the pro-life cause in Russia in a weeklong national campaign against abortion called “Give Me Life!” and a “Day of Family, Love and Faithfulness” by her Foundation for Social and Cultural Initiatives in conjunction with the Russian Orthodox Church.[19]

Please cite a source that is current.

It is worth noting from your article that Russia does not permit abortions over 12 weeks which is far more conservative than USA, Canada, or any other aborting nation. Does anyone know how much the russian government pays for abortions? Is it universal coverage? I doubt it. I do know this russia is paying for people to HAVE babies.

 

[Catolico65]

But then the US is not morally bankrupt, i.e., as long as you have good people willing to fight then you have hope and the possibility for moral progress.

God loves you too!

Josie

The US is morally bankrupt.

That is easily verifiable by the number of “Christians” that voted for Obama and support child sacrifice and homosexual indoctrination of our youths and the increased secularism of our society in the name of “separation of church and state”. God is of course not impressed.

 

[josie_L]

Canada aborts about 1 in three pregnancies. Couple that with free contraception and you have the same problem russia has. A dying country. You really should broaden your knowledge on the subject. Russia is warning us not to follow them. We should listen. Look at your own backyard and see what is happening.

Who said I wasn’t, and by the way, if you’re going to use the term 'free contraception" make sure you define what you mean by that, i.e., abortion. Moreover, I am fully aware of issues in my OWN country (I have access to a t.v. and the internet, even if I do live in an igloo, thank you very much ). I do not know when this became about comparing Canada to Russia or rather Canada vs. Russia, I simply stated that if we had to choose a good Western leader (after you emphatically said that the best Western leader is Putin), then the obvious choice to me would be Prime Minister Harper (he and his government have been doing a lot of good inside/outside of Canada, the kind that doesn’t involve manipulating and interfering if you catch my drift). And no, the problem is not the same, i.e., our abortion rate is not higher than our live births, that being said, I know things have to be changed in Canada, but if not by our government than by the people (Harper is ambivalent to speak of abortion because the elites in Canada, along with the media, would no doubt draw blood at the first attempt he made, although there was/is talk of sex-selective abortions in parliament).

Now as for the advertisments, I drive by 3 pro choice billboards and 2 planned parenthood clinics advertising abortions every day. I suppose it could upset people like me that are pro life, but our government will label us terrorists if we vocalize our displeasure. Not to mention we are not welcome in New York per the governor.

If you noticed I changed my post, but nevertheless, you discount the fact that abortion clinics are closing, abortion employees are leaving and becoming pro-life, some states are putting in stricter abortion laws, thus proving that the pro-life movement is winning (you may not be able to change legislation right now, but you can change people’s hearts). More and more people are waking up, so that even though abortion clinics can advertise it may well be all for naught.

Now tell me again how bad russia has it?

I think Russian people have it worse, but if you wish to believe that America is worse off, go right ahead.

p.s. Russians contracept too, thus putting the numbers even higher than foretold.

 

[josie_L]

Russia passed a law in 2011 that bans child sacrifices after 12 weeks except in special case. Furthermore, while they have had exceedingly high child sacrifice rates that has declined rapidly, especially with the new law. Unlike in the US, Russia is heading in the right direction. I believe it was because of the consecration to the Virgin Mary.

Well, of course, they’ve declined, i.e., since the downfall of Soviet Russia! How does this disprove what I mentioned earlier, i.e., that it had the highest abortion rates (post Soviet Russia) in that abortions actually exceeded live births.

p.s. It has yet to be known if Russia is headed in the right direction. Moreover, I don’t like Putin (not Russia or Russian people), and I personally don’t think that anything he does is out of some Christian sense of morality, he is, in my opinion a narcissistic tyrant.

 

[Catolico65]

p.s. It has yet to be known if Russia is headed in the right direction. Moreover, I don’t like Putin (not Russia or Russian people), and I personally don’t think that anything he does is out of some Christian sense of morality, he is, in my opinion a narcissistic tyrant.

Russia’s child sacrifices have decreased drastically and they are outlawing homosexual indoctrination and are acknowledging their Christian heritage. They are doing better than the US and Canada in those regards.

 

[donsnow]

But then the US is not morally bankrupt, i.e., as long as you have good people willing to fight then you have hope and the possibility for moral progress.

God loves you too!

Josie

Good evening, josie L,

Thank you for your positive stroke, there. But, I’m afraid it’s misapplied. The USofA’s moral bankruptcy is not alleviated by our pro-life efforts. We prolifers to America are like Lot to Sodom and Gomorrah. He wasn’t enough to save the city. We’re managing to save unborn American citizens from the American Holocaust. But, so far we haven’t stopped the Holocaust.

God loves all the sinners and hates all their sins,
Don

 

[josie_L]

Russia’s child sacrifices have decreased drastically and they are outlawing homosexual indoctrination and are acknowledging their Christian heritage. They are doing better than the US and Canada in those regards.

No, they are not doing better in Russia as regarding life, i.e., they are still proportionately more unborn children being killed in Russia than the U.S.A. and Canada, and their abortion rate is possibly still higher than their live births. As for the whole homosexual indoctrination, granted it is true that the government is more aware of the explicit dangers of gay propaganda, but I don’t see how this makes Russia a better country on the WHOLE (which is the point I was trying to make).

p.s. By the way, the Canadian government also gives money for those parents having babies, and with each baby that one conceives, the more money that family gets (and it’s a sufficient amount of money, i.e., my mother was getting close to 1000$ for the three kids she had that were under 18 years of age, we were 4 in total).

 

[josie_L]

Good evening, josie L,

Thank you for your positive stroke, there. But, I’m afraid it’s misapplied. The USofA’s moral bankruptcy is not alleviated by our pro-life efforts. We prolifers to America are like Lot to Sodom and Gomorrah. He wasn’t enough to save the city. We’re managing to save unborn American citizens from the American Holocaust. But, so far we haven’t stopped the Holocaust.

God loves all the sinners and hates all their sins,
Don

Give it time, things will get better, things are getting better from a pro-life point of view.

 

[Catolico65]

No, they are not doing better in Russia as regarding life, i.e., they are still proportionately more unborn children being killed in Russia than the U.S.A. and Canada, and their abortion rate is possibly still higher than their live births. As for the whole homosexual indoctrination, granted it is true that the government is more aware of the explicit dangers of gay propaganda, but I don’t see how this makes Russia a better country on the WHOLE (which is the point I was trying to make).

p.s. By the way, the Canadian government also gives money for those parents having babies, and with each baby that one conceives, the more money that family gets (and it’s a sufficient amount of money, i.e., my mother was getting close to 1000$ for the three kids she had that were under 18 years of age, we were 4 in total).

They are reducing at a higher rate than the US so they will be lower than the US before long my friend.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I would love to read up on this more. Could you point me to some information?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

They are reducing at a higher rate than the US so they will be lower than the US before long my friend.

http://darussophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/russia-abortion-statistics.jpg

If that graph is accurate they will overtake us this year.