Who are the deserving poor?

[Trader]

What did you say?; the system now charges the rich more money to go to school on both ends.

Here is a little history. My senior year in college was 1971. My tuition that year was $1100 for a private Catholic college. After one year of graduate school, my first job paid $650/month.

Today my alma mater costs $26,000 for a year of tuition, R&B, and fees. It has been on Money Magazine’s list of 10 best bargains in education several times. If starting salaries had kept up with tuition increases, today’s graduates could look forward to more than $180,000 their first year.

Very few students today actually pay full list price tuition. I attended on an academic scholarship based on competitve exams, and there were only a few of those available. Dorms are now apartments. Until a recent crackdown many students were going directly from graduation the bankruptcy lawyer to get out of their loans.

 

[Man]

…

Sam who is learning his times tables… rides a horse with a giant grin on his face… falls asleep with a toy catalog on his pillow (and now, we have no clue how we’re going to buy those toys this coming Christmas), who stops mid-stream down the aisle at Mass to hug some stranger his Guardian Angel must have pointed out really needed a hug…

God Bless those few government programs that have paid for Sam’s therapies and provided a caseworker to just say “good job, you’re doing great” when there was no family to do so…

Just saying…

sojo

Good Lord, please ask the Knights to make his Christmas a happy one. Amen.

Or you could buy at the salvation army or at a resale store. There can be some excellent deals there. We got a crib (yes it’s to spec) from my mom, she got it consignment…

We wish you well!

 

[Man]

When the director told me of this I THOUGHT HOW STUPI IS THAT!!!

She has 3 little kids and is currently getting her GED and wants to go to college. She wants to help herself but yet the system wont let her.
The laws REALLY need to change. I know we have an organization that is working on it but these politicians are ridiculous.

She could talk with someone at the chamber of commerce of the city where the University is and/or the University itself. There could be a program for the student’s children on-campus or a non-profit for assisting people in this same situation. Often, student loans will assist with housing. They have very affordable interest rates, and fairly easy criteria for differing interest.

 

[Man]

It seems more consistent than that to me. It really is about what is best for the baby. The baby and the mother are not equal in resources. The baby is totally defenseless. Before birth it is best for the baby to live.

After birth it is best for the baby to have a stable loving two parent family. In many cases the only way to do that is adoption. That isn’t hypocrisy. It is reality. Just how much aid would it take to turn a single mother into a two parent family? If the mother is very young the best option besides adoption is usually to live with her parents. If she is older it may be the right thing to marry the father of the baby.

Every mother eventually has to give up her baby. Ideally the baby has grown into competent and resposible adult by then. That is also about what is best for the baby, not what meets the emotional needs of the mother. I’ll bet you know some real horror stories about mothers who won’t let go at the appropriate time and do real damage to the child they claim to love.

I object, every situation is different. The problem may not be the mother’s care, but the pressures of daily life. In many cases they can get a big brother/sister, or intersest an uncle or grandfather. No, this isn’t ideal. Ideally she would marry someone. It is her choice to give the child for adoption if she wishes to.

I see that change as a hostile revolution to the system currently in effect. More stress needs to be put on the community for child care and skill development for parents. That is God wants cultivators not innovators and defenders not revolutionaries.

 

[Hellisreal]

Truly and honestly NONE. We have created several generations of people dependent on government aide and it will take a major overhaul to return to the ideal of “God helps those who helps themselves” or “hard work never hurt anyone”

My neighbor could afford “her kiddies” when her husband was alive. Right now its rough for them. She should give up her 9, 6 and 4 year old?

All children are children of God.

The crack you made here is sickning.

 

[Trader]

I object, every situation is different. The problem may not be the mother’s care, but the pressures of daily life. In many cases they can get a big brother/sister, or intersest an uncle or grandfather. No, this isn’t ideal. Ideally she would marry someone. It is her choice to give the child for adoption if she wishes to.

I see that change as a hostile revolution to the system currently in effect. More stress needs to be put on the community for child care and skill development for parents. That is God wants cultivators not innovators and defenders not revolutionaries.

Surprise, we have some agreement!
Yes, and uncle, grandfather, or big brother/ big sister might allow the mother to keep the baby.

Yes, it is the mother’s choice to give up the baby for adoption, but on what basis should she make that decision? The feelings of someone who may not even be an adult?

I would ask the same question Pope John Paul II asked Americans about abortion. “How can you speak about the right to choose without also speaking of the duty to choose well?”

 

[kim3260]

My neighbor could afford “her kiddies” when her husband was alive. Right now its rough for them. She should give up her 9, 6 and 4 year old?

All children are children of God.

The crack you made here is sickning.

Boy how one can twist things:shrug:
Your neighbor is not what I am talking about. And if you re-read it you would see that. She most certainly deserves a helping hand. Again I am refering to the underclass that have generation after generation of babies born into the system. It has become a way of life. Most have their 1st child before their 16th birthday and will become grandmas in their early 30’s.
Who can honestly say it’s much better for this child to grow up in a crack house with a mother who already has 2 or 3 children from different fathers rather then adopted by a loving couple that will at the very least give this child a chance.
BTW–The term “kiddies” is a term of endearment not meant to offend as I refer to my grandchildren as my grandkiddies and when my own were young they were “the kiddies” in the future I will use the proper term of child or children as to not offend you ok

 

[Hellisreal]

So then, Kim

How do you expect the government to evaluate each person’s situation properly.

Its a bad system, but its impossible to evaluate each person and their set of circumstances that you would approve of to sift through.

Tares and weeds grow together.

She is by the way, considered by this world now as the underclass.

I let her stretch an extention cord to my house to get her air conditioner going and let her hook up my hose to her house so the kids and she can have water. The house is in the forclosure process. The kids come to my house after school for dinner and they do their homework here because she uses candles for light. I worry there will be a fire there.

She sold everything, even her car. They have matresses on the floor and a kitchen table, and some other very basic furnishings now.

Boy how one can twist things:shrug:
Your neighbor is not what I am talking about. And if you re-read it you would see that. She most certainly deserves a helping hand. Again I am refering to the underclass that have generation after generation of babies born into the system. It has become a way of life. Most have their 1st child before their 16th birthday and will become grandmas in their early 30’s.
Who can honestly say it’s much better for this child to grow up in a crack house with a mother who already has 2 or 3 children from different fathers rather then adopted by a loving couple that will at the very least give this child a chance.
BTW–The term “kiddies” is a term of endearment not meant to offend as I refer to my grandchildren as my grandkiddies and when my own were young they were “the kiddies” in the future I will use the proper term of child or children as to not offend you ok

 

[kim3260]

So then, Kim

How do you expect the government to evaluate each person’s situation properly.

Its a bad system, but its impossible to evaluate each person and their set of circumstances that you would approve of to sift through.

Tares and weeds grow together.

She is by the way, considered by this world now as the underclass.

I let her stretch an extention cord to my house to get her air conditioner going and let her hook up my hose to her house so the kids and she can have water. The house is in the forclosure process. The kids come to my house after school for dinner and they do their homework here because she uses candles for light. I worry there will be a fire there.

She sold everything, even her car. They have matresses on the floor and a kitchen table, and some other very basic furnishings now.

You still don’t get it do you, I mean the girls who get pregnant at a very early age for the simple reason of getting her own welfare check before she ages out of the system.
A widow like your neighbor did not make a foolish descion to lay down with some boy she barely knows. She lost her husband and she sounds like a decent woman and this is why we have to reform the system so women like your neighbor can get the help she needs. I’m on your side on this one.

 

[Hellisreal]

Kim,

I think I do “get it”.

I am asking you a direct question.

How does the government make the call on each individual’s situation?

The last I heard, one is innocent until proven guilty here (even if we know the person is a crack head- ect, as was mentioned earlier somewhere)

If there is no conviction on record, how does the government evaluate each situation?

I am asking so we can be realistic and not idealistic about this.

 

[kim3260]

Kim,

I think I do “get it”.

I am asking you a direct question.

How does the government make the call on each individual’s situation?

The last I heard, one is innocent until proven guilty here (even if we know the person is a crack head- ect, as was mentioned earlier somewhere)

If there is no conviction on record, how does the government evaluate each situation?

I am asking so we can be realistic and not idealistic about this.

Each person has a caseworker (I know over-work-but stay with me ) everyone who has a case should recieve help. Now this is the part most don’t understand—after a specified time (-say 6-12 months) a person needs to go to “stage 2” -job training, or if the person can work, free childcare, help with rent and utilities (paid directly to landlord/power company) and healthcare,until such time you are able to afford to pay for healthcare through your job. Otherwise let them stay as long as need Tenncare or whatever your state calls it, as long as they keep up with the other conditions. This would never be a problem for good honest people.
Now with repeat offenders—Example-another baby by your unnamed boyfriend(s). refusal to attend training programs, abuse or neglect, test positive for drugs or alcohol. this will be the end of help and child(ren) is/are removed from your care.
I realize it would actually cost more in the beginning but as cases disappear because they can not keep getting it, There will be more money in the system, it will actually be back to what this was intended on being in the first place…a helping hand and support.
Tennessee had a major problems just a few years ago with our Tenncare system, now thanks to Our Governer we have cleaned up a lot of abuses. And he is a democrat! This stanch Republican voted him in twice:thumbsup:

 

[Hellisreal]

Hello Kim!

You really gave me quite a lot to digest!

I need to PM you about my friend. We are “damn yankees”

(Its the name of a play people- I am only kidding around here)

Hope to visit Tennessee again one day.

 

[kim3260]

Hello Kim!

You really gave me quite a lot to digest!

I need to PM you about my friend. We are “damn yankees”

(Its the name of a play people- I am only kidding around here)

Hope to visit Tennessee again one day.

Love to have you, well my daughter is now a yankee (she lives in NJ) well actually I’m a 2nd generation southerner. Grandpa was from brooklyn
sorry back to the topic

 

[emily47017]

Tennessee had a major problems just a few years ago with our Tenncare system, now thanks to Our Governer we have cleaned up a lot of abuses. And he is a democrat! This stanch Republican voted him in twice:thumbsup:

kim, i did a quick google, and tenncare sounds really interesting! would you be willing to describe it on the “how should health care work” thread? it’d be neat to talk more about how it works, and also how it’s working.

 

[boppaid]

Hi,

I run a homeless ministry in my church through a private organization. It is totally run by volunteers(except the office staff of 4)and is run through churches in our county(whoever signs up)

Sadly, not all the churches participate

It is called IHN(Interfaith Hospitality Network)they are nationwide based in California. Our church house mostly women and children six times a year. The people in our program are people who really want to make a better life for themselves. IHN staff train them, teach them how to budget, get them jobs and financial assistance, among other things. The bottom line is most of these people get back on their feet they just need a little help doing so. The people in the program are 60% children. We have them coming to our church tom. and there is one young lady that is in a quandry of what to do. LISTEN TO THIS STUPID STATE SET UP She can either get financial assistance and not be able to work or work and lose her financial assistance. The point is most people want to work but even still just need a little help to get out of poverty. IT seems to me the government in my state want to keep these people oppressed.

The Lord tells us over a hundred times to help the needy and poor. So, I say ALL people deserve at least one chance. I would say if they are abusing the system then they should be cut off until they are ready to REALLY try to do better.

But, ultimately we are to always give a person a chance if they are sincere.

Great post! What a wonderful thing you do for your community! I have to say I do agree with you … people caught abusing the system by committing fraud need to be cut off.

You bring up an excellent point about people who are afraid to get a job, because they will be cut from welfare, yet will still not earn enough to make ends meet. Very sad indeed. I think they need to still get their welfare check, but it should be adjusted accordingly, based on their new paycheck.

 

[boppaid]

ALLFORHIM,
God Bless you, I feel for this young lady and this is what I mean, a different system is needed ASPA, if people want to work to better themselves they should not be punished. She should have help to better herself.
What happened is we encouraged generations of folks to “live off the system” and pass it down to the kids. Everyone makes a mistake or has a tough break and we need to help them out, but when we are paying for sneakers, ipods and “fancy” cell phones (not the old pre-paid that are quite cheap and many deserving poor have them) it gets me a bit upset.

Kim, I am in agreement with you on this for sure!

 

[kim3260]

kim, i did a quick google, and tenncare sounds really interesting! would you be willing to describe it on the “how should health care work” thread? it’d be neat to talk more about how it works, and also how it’s working.

I will gladly tomorrow afternoon, I have to really get to bed. Mass in the morning and all. I will be there, promise

 

[boppaid]

You still don’t get it do you, I mean the girls who get pregnant at a very early age for the simple reason of getting her own welfare check before she ages out of the system.
A widow like your neighbor did not make a foolish descion to lay down with some boy she barely knows. She lost her husband and she sounds like a decent woman and this is why we have to reform the system so women like your neighbor can get the help she needs. I’m on your side on this one.

Again, how do you determine who gets the aid or doesn’t? Do you make judgement calls based on morality? WHo determines what is moral? I know that as a more liberal Christian, I may have different values than a conservative Christian? or an Atheist? etc. Who’s set of morals do we use to evaluate each situation?

also, for the woman who gets knocked up twice, by two different men: do we give her health insurance and food for the first child, but when she has the second say, "Well! We thought you just made a mistake before and were deserving of our help. But now, we see that you are obviously a slut, so your second and third children will do without. (while the first is receiving benefits? or do you take the benefits away from all the children?)

Do you see the slippery slope that happens when you get into this sort of thing?

 

[whatevergirl]

Hello Kim!

You really gave me quite a lot to digest!

I need to PM you about my friend. We are “damn yankees”

(Its the name of a play people- I am only kidding around here)

Hope to visit Tennessee again one day.

I’m terribly sorry to hear about your neighbor/friend. I will pray for her…there are many programs to help her, has she looked into WIC, and other food aids, to help? God bless you for being a good friend to her…I pray for her.

 

[Man]

Who is the most needy…

Unborn
Terminally ill
Infants
Children <5
Children <7
Mentally handicapped
Children <14
Infirm Elderly
Children <16
Children <18
Single/widowed/divorced with children*
Parents*
-Unemployable
-Under employable
Singles/Widows*
-Unemployable
-Under employable
Parents**
Divorced***
Widows***
Married****
Singles****

*How do we care most for the society and on the family upon which it is based? Provide necessary services for those w/o the *. They have the least choices, and money is only a barrier, not a facilitator.
**Need specific services and support from the community. It may not be obvious, but this is why daycare and whatnot exist. Typically parents are supported by relatives or other caregivers so that they can go out together or on vacation.
***Need specific help.
****Discernment is a must.

This is how our society works right now, is it not? How can it work better?

We need to think outside the “money” box.

Please, correct my rankings or add things to the list if you want. I’m interested in your thoughts.