Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?

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Gift_from_God said:
History books have facts, and that’s an inconvenience to certain people. Have you noticed how people on this forum say FDR started the Great Depression and didn’t end it? This is contrary to actual history, but facts are no good for some people
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If you want to start that debate, start another thread. FDR didn’t start the Depression and certainly his policies which were designed to end it in the ‘30’s didn’t end it, as a read of Amity Shlaes’ book The Forgotten Man will show. What ended the Depression was the rearming for WW2 and that wasn’t done with the intent of ending the Depression but with the intent of rearming.

Ishii
 
louis91766 said:
Many Jews themselves rail against Zionism. Does that make them anti-semitic? I don’t think so. Why don’t you read what a few rabbis have said about zionism such as:
Rabbi Yitzchak Aramah.
■Rabbi Yechezkel Halberstam
■Rabbi Tazdok Hakohen of Lublin
■Rabbi Yehoshua Leib Diskin
■Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch
■Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld
■Rabbi Yehoshea Dzikover
■Rabbi David Friedman of Karlin
■Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk
■Rabbi Yosef Rozen
■Rabbi Avraham Freund
■Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman
■Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik of Brisk
■Rabbi Chofetz Chaim
■Rabbi Sholem Schneersohn
■Rabbi Shaul Brach
■Rabbi Yissachar Dov Belze Rabbe
■Rabbi Chaim Oizer Grodzinski
■Rabbi Chaim Elazar Shapiro
■Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum
■Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky
■Rabbi Yitzchock Zev Soloveitchik
■Rabbi Avraham Yeshayau Karelitz
■Rabbi Yitzchok Dov Koppelman
■Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl
■Rabbi Aharon Kotler
■Rabbi Mordechai Gifter
■Rabbi Elya Svei
■Rabbi Baruch Kaplan
■Rabbi Amram Blau
■Rabbi Avigdor Miller, zt’l
■Rabbi Yitchok Hutner Z"L
And by the way, have you read the statement of principles of 13 rabbis published in the NY Times of September 30, 1982 in which they say that since the Divine will has placed Jews in exile, it is forbidden for Jews to have nationalistic aspirations.
I don’t see how you could be more anti-zionist than that.
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You are conflating anti-Zionism with hating the Jews. The atheist far left hates the Jews for what they represent - God working in this world.

Ishii
 
nathan_oc said:
The only good to come out of OWS is to will show America what the left really looks like with it’s mask off. As Ann Coulter said " This is the flea party, not the tea party."
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Fleabaggers:D Parasitic wingless bloodsuckers

Ann Coulter is one wicked woman. Gotta love her.😃
 
louis91766 said:
This is somewhat vague. Can you give us the address of where we may pitch our tents so that we will not get thrown in jail? Also, if it is so cold at night, will you have doctors on the site in case we come down with the influenza. As you know, influenza can be deadly. I hope you do not want any harm or sickness to befall American students who find themselves in a poverty situation.
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Find the address yourself. You want a job, don’t you? I haven’t heard of any cases of influenza among fruit pickers in eastern Washington state. If there were any, I am sure the media would have reported it. So you shouldn’t worry. Just get over there and start picking.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Here is what I said:

“Did you know that the going rate for picking apples in the orchards of eastern Washington is $150/day?” I based that on a newspaper article that I linked to.
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So you read something in the newspaper to that effect? Did you realise that one half of all articles appearing in the daily newspapers contain factual errors of one kind or another? Apparently you have not verified the article since you don’t know the address and the telephone number of the company which is supposed to be hiring people at $150 a day. And you don’t know where these people are supposed to be pitching their tents in the freezing cold nights. And you don’t know if there will be a doctor available to these workers in case one of them should come down with the influenza or other virus. So on the basis of this, people are supposed to drop everything and rush on over to the state of Washington and run around looking for a job on picking apples? But no one knows where this job is and no one knows whether or not it will still be available after travelling 3000 miles to look for it?
Given that one half of all articles in the daily newspapers contain factual errors, it does not sound like this would be a reasonable thing for anyone to do.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/08/17/half-newspaper-articles-contain-one-or-more-errors#ixzz1aupIdee3
 
louis91766 said:
Given that one half of all articles in the daily newspapers contain factual errors, it does not sound like this would be a reasonable thing for anyone to do.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/08/17/half-newspaper-articles-contain-one-or-more-errors#ixzz1aupIdee3
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That a nice anti semitic, anti capitalist link you got there. You should read this from Adbusters libcom.org/library/anti-semitism-adbusters-2004. They also gave this movement it’s name how odd. They also have ties to George Soros and his Tides Foundation and his Open Society
 
nathan_oc said:
That a nice anti semitic, anti capitalist link you got there. You should read this from Adbusters libcom.org/library/anti-semitism-adbusters-2004. They also gave this movement it’s name how odd. They also have ties to George Soros and his Tides Foundation and his Open Society
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There is nothing anti-semitic or anti-capitalist in the article itself. the article concerns errors in the daily newspaper.
Your statement is like saying: It is anti-semitic to drink water because there is a picture of Hitler drinking water. And Hitler gave a speech encouraging people to drink at least X glasses of water every day.
 
Raskolnikov said:
No, the far left does not hate Jews. People can hate things, maybe groups can in some sense, but the far left is just an ambiguity.
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Are you kidding? People can hate other groups. The far left hates the Jews.
Raskolnikov said:
I have been to a couple events related to Palestine, and heard a Paelstinian speaker talk about the policies of Israel. I have not encountered anti-Semitism at such events. They do not complain about Jews at all. Note, Israel does not equal the Jews, and many Jews would like people to acknowledge that as wel. Your equation of the two betrays your bias.
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Of course Israel does not equal the Jews (spare me the condescension please). But many Jew haters hide behind the banner of anti-Zionism and many of them are leftists. Notice I didn’t say all of the left hates the Jews. In general, the left is opposed to the Jews. Recently, there has been opposition to Israel in the name of anti-colonialism. Here is an excerpt from an article I found interesting.

*It is at the farthest reaches of the Left, where there is a fixation with the Palestinians, that we find the brashest expressions of anti- Semitism. Among the mosaic of groups that compose the “antiglobalization” movement, as well as among the remnants of the New Left, anti-Semitic rhetoric and symbolism is rife. The UN World Conference against Racism in Durban in September 2001, the conferences organized by the World Social Forum in India and Brazil, and the marches in several European cities against the U.S.- led intervention in Iraq are all examples of public events where Jews have been actively denigrated. Such displays have commonly been presented as manifestations of the “new anti-Semitism,” generally dated back to September 2000, when the second Palestinian intifada began. Decidedly, this “new” anti-Semitism, which would deny selfdetermination to the Jews even as it celebrates this principle for other nationalities, is driven by the Left, and not the Right. Even so, it is far from new.6 *

jcpa.org/phas/phas-cohen-f04.htm
Raskolnikov said:
I find your generalization of leftists as anti-Semite rather bothersome. I have a professor who is quite a leftists, he is actually a German history professor and my academic advisor. No one I have ever met has went to greater lengths than him to warn of the perils of anti-Semitism and racialist ideology (he also grew up in deep South during the '50s, so that’s a big concern of his). Another professor who is quite critical of many of Israel’s policies will immediately and tersely correct any student who mistakes ‘the Jews’ for the Israeli government. Perhaps because you base your opinions on these people from sources that are most likely designed to denigrate them, you don’t have an entirely impartia view of them as they really are.
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Oh, did you think that since I made the generalization that the far left is anti-Jewish that all those on the left is anti-Jewish? If you see the Jews as convincing proof of the Divine working in our world (indeed the existence of the divine) then it makes total sense for the atheist left to resent and hate the Jews. The pervasive trend on college campuses is that of solidarity with Palestine, and a profound distrust with “wall street”. The cause celeb on college campuses is anti-Israel and anti-neocon (code words for anti-Jew). There was a young girl who went to protest Israel and ended up getting bull-dozed by the Israelis. What do you think caused her to do such a thing? Its obvious that her college professor (the leftists at Evergreen State U.) inspired her.
Raskolnikov said:
As for neocons and bankers. Well, I crfiticize neocons. I think the neoconservative foreign policy ideology is naive and dangerous. I don’t care if a neoconservative is a Jew like Paul Wolfowitz or a gentile like Donald Rumsfeld. I’m not going to forgo criticism of problematic foreign policy ideas just because the person who makes them happens to be Jewish because, the fact of the matter is, Jews, being disproportionately well-educated in America, are well-represented among the political and intellectual leaders of both sides. One might just as easily accuse people critical of communism of being anti-Semites because Jews were and are disproportionate among communists. Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky, Rosa Luxemborg, Howard Zinn, just to name a few. What if everyone who didn’t like them were accuse of being an anti-Semite?
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I think you fail to understand the nature of the far left, particularly in Europe. Anti-semitism has had a resurgence among the left in Europe. But it is pervasive in college campuses in America too.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Find the address yourself. You want a job, don’t you? I haven’t heard of any cases of influenza among fruit pickers in eastern Washington state. If there were any, I am sure the media would have reported it. So you shouldn’t worry. Just get over there and start picking.

Ishii
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That was quite a waste of time and effort wasn’t it?

But it does give us a clearer picture nevertheless of who the protesters of OWS really are.
 
louis91766 said:
So you read something in the newspaper to that effect? Did you realise that one half of all articles appearing in the daily newspapers contain factual errors of one kind or another? Apparently you have not verified the article since you don’t know the address and the telephone number of the company which is supposed to be hiring people at $150 a day. And you don’t know where these people are supposed to be pitching their tents in the freezing cold nights. And you don’t know if there will be a doctor available to these workers in case one of them should come down with the influenza or other virus. So on the basis of this, people are supposed to drop everything and rush on over to the state of Washington and run around looking for a job on picking apples? But no one knows where this job is and no one knows whether or not it will still be available after travelling 3000 miles to look for it?
Given that one half of all articles in the daily newspapers contain factual errors, it does not sound like this would be a reasonable thing for anyone to do.
Read more: newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/08/17/half-newspaper-articles-contain-one-or-more-errors#ixzz1aupIdee3
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I would go for it. $150/day is way better than camping out (tenting) at Wall Street in NY. Atleast you get paid!

Ishii
 
nathan_oc said:
That a nice anti semitic, anti capitalist link you got there. … They also have ties to George Soros and his Tides Foundation and his Open Society
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I didn’t know that George Soros was anti-semitic. Can you please verify that?
 
ishii said:
…
I think you fail to understand the nature of the far left, particularly in Europe. Anti-semitism has had a resurgence among the left in Europe. But it is pervasive in college campuses in America too.
Ishii
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I wouldn’t say that is so much the** far left** is anti-semitic, but the** left **itself is, and increasingly so.

It is important to also note that their contempt is not a racial concept as it was for the Nazis. It is more that they hate the ground beneath the feet of the next six million now.

I sometimes wonder if what is behind the anti-semitism is not so much a hatred of the Jew, but a hatred of God himself. For secularist, the improbable existence of a Jewish state of Israel must be galling, a real wrench in the machine to notice that God’s Chosen People are surviving and prospering, bring tangible evidence to the idea of God in the world, while the race that would have exterminating is demographically fading from view more and more with each passing decade.

"He will Bless those who bless his people, and Curse those who curse them "is as true now as it always was.

The antisemitism expressed by many leftists is real enough. It is very much a defining feature of today’s leftist point of view.
 
louis91766 said:
There is nothing anti-semitic or anti-capitalist in the article itself. the article concerns errors in the daily newspaper.
Your statement is like saying: It is anti-semitic to drink water because there is a picture of Hitler drinking water. And Hitler gave a speech encouraging people to drink at least X glasses of water every day.
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The Adbusters mission statement:

We are a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age. Our aim is to topple existing power structures and forge a major shift in the way we will live in the 21st century.
Adbusters is at essence an ecological magazine, examining the relationship between people and the environment, both the material environment and the mental environment.[3]

In 2004, the organization began selling shoes with their black spot “anti-logo”. The project is an experiment in “anti-capitalism”: Each shoe comes with a share of stock in the company, allowing owners to vote on the website on new ventures and what to do with profits. The blackspot campaign has spawned other ideas, like blackspot music, or blackspot soda, which aim to compete in the marketplace with the large corporations they oppose. The most popular product in the blackspot campaign is the Blackspot shoes. The shoes are made primarily from organic hemp and recycled car tires, and are made in Portugal by union labor.

Adbusters came under fire for alleged anti-semitism when it ran an article[16] that identified many supporters of the Iraq War and the Bush Administration as Jewish and questioned why this fact and its potential implications for US Middle East policy was not open to discussion. A list of prominent pro-war figures was presented, with stars next to those with Jewish-sounding names.
search.com/reference/Adbusters
 
nathan_oc said:
The Adbusters mission statement:

We are a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age. Our aim is to topple existing power structures and forge a major shift in the way we will live in the 21st century.
Adbusters is at essence an ecological magazine, examining the relationship between people and the environment, both the material environment and the mental environment.[3]

In 2004, the organization began selling shoes with their black spot “anti-logo”. The project is an experiment in “anti-capitalism”: Each shoe comes with a share of stock in the company, allowing owners to vote on the website on new ventures and what to do with profits. The blackspot campaign has spawned other ideas, like blackspot music, or blackspot soda, which aim to compete in the marketplace with the large corporations they oppose. The most popular product in the blackspot campaign is the Blackspot shoes. The shoes are made primarily from organic hemp and recycled car tires, and are made in Portugal by union labor.

Adbusters came under fire for alleged anti-semitism when it ran an article[16] that identified many supporters of the Iraq War and the Bush Administration as Jewish and questioned why this fact and its potential implications for US Middle East policy was not open to discussion. A list of prominent pro-war figures was presented, with stars next to those with Jewish-sounding names.
search.com/reference/Adbusters
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So?
The article appeared in newsbusters not adbusters. Are the two related? Maybe, maybe not . I don’t know.
Forget about the webpage. I am only concerned about errors appearing in newspaper articles. That’s all. As far as my point is concerned, I don’t care about George Soros, the Nazis, Hitler, the Communists, the fascists, the European socialists, the Jews, the Gentiles, the Muslims, the Egyptians, the Portuguese, blackspot shoes or anything else. I am only commenting on the fact reported in a study at the University of Oregon that there are errors in many newspaper articles. (I really do care about these other things, but they are not relevant to the point I was trying to make).
 
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