Where is the Catholic Church today? Is there a list somewhere of the Catholic priests and bishops who belong to the Catholic Church you are talking about or is it a fiction of your mind, some dream that you are having that does not correspond with an actual Church in the real world today?What you all do not seem to grasp, or understand or open your eyes to, is the fact the church you believe is Catholic is not. It is a false church, posing as the true bride of Christ; the Catholic Church. Truth does not change; Jesus yesterday, today and forever. WAKE UP!!!
The Catholic Church remains in all who hold the Catholic faith. Why do you insist that a priest or a bishop defines the Catholic faith? Why does it seem incredulous the Catholic faith remains in a remnant? This is no dream, this is reality, whether or not you choose to believe the truth or not. I am a actual Catholic, in the actual Catholic Church, in the world today.Where is the Catholic Church today? Is there a list somewhere of the Catholic priests and bishops who belong to the Catholic Church you are talking about or is it a fiction of your mind, some dream that you are having that does not correspond with an actual Church in the real world today?
Every single Bishop, hopefully holds that such people would have to be in a state of invincible ignorance and the recipients of a baptism of desire in order to be saved.Perhaps you can give me the name of one Catholic bishop today who believes that all Hindus or all Jews will go to hell?
Cardinal Kasper.Give me the name of a single Bishop who says those who are outside Christ and His Church go to heaven…
I don’t believe you.Cardinal Kasper.
You might try to do a little reading:I don’t believe you.
Obviously, if this is still his position, Cardinal Kasper is in error.You might try to do a little reading:
"From the point of view of the Catholic Church, Judaism is a religion that springs from divine revelation. As Cardinal Kasper noted, “God’s grace, which is the grace of Jesus Christ according to our faith, is available to all. Therefore, the Church believes that Judaism, i.e.,** the faithful response of the Jewish people to God’s irrevocable covenant, is salvific for them, because God is faithful to his promises.**”
Walter Cardinal Kasper, “Dominus Iesus.” Address delivered at the 17th meeting of the International Catholic-Jewish Liaison Committee, New York, May 1, 2001.
This is also what I have been taught and in spite of what some people here are claiming, I don’t know of any Catholic bishop who would disagree with the doctrine of Baptism of Desire.You know I gave up on this topic many years ago after I read and heard several priests say that even those pagan natives living in the wilds of Borneo can go to Heaven if they simply live by God’s Law (natural law) that is engraved upon every man’s heart
Well… that’s halfway true. The priests should have stipulated that such people would have to be suffering from invincible ignorance and the recipients of a baptism of desire. Otherwise, their salvation would have been outside the church, which is impossible.You know I gave up on this topic many years ago after I read and heard several priests say that even those pagan natives living in the wilds of Borneo can go to Heaven if they simply live by God’s Law (natural law) that is engraved upon every man’s heart!
What you claim is impossible is not so according to Cardinal Kasper. Can you claim the same or similar credentials as Cardinal Kasper?Well… that’s halfway true. The priests should have stipulated that such people would have to be suffering from invincible ignorance and the recipients of a baptism of desire. Otherwise, their salvation would have been outside the church, which is impossible.
I’m neither Catholic or Christian, but what kind of God allows people to live with no chance of salvation? Is it just by possibility that they are born in the wrong place or are they ‘reprobate’?What do you think? The bible clearly tells you the fate of those who die in their unbelief. Not knowing the One True God, and saving faith.
I’m not certain how to address you since you declare yourself to be not Catholic, not Christian and yet your profile describes your religion as Protestant. Most here would consider that to be Christian. Nonetheless, what kind of God would allow people to live with no chance of salvation in their entire lifetimes?I’m neither Catholic or Christian, but what kind of God allows people to live with no chance of salvation? Is it just by possibility that they are born in the wrong place or are they ‘reprobate’?
Credentials are irrelevant. Tell me… how many university degrees did Christ have? Our Lord warns against investing too much confidence in the wisdom of men. The teaching of Christ and His church is clear: there is no salvation outside the church. No “credentials” are required to discern that Cardinal Kasper speaks heresy when he suggests otherwise.What you claim is impossible is not so according to Cardinal Kasper. Can you claim the same or similar credentials as Cardinal Kasper?
Aren’t protestants in a broken errored communion with the Catholic Church? Because of their keeping of the 2 sacraments??We know that if a man dies believing in his false religion he goes to hell. A muslim, an unbelieving Jew, a buddhist, a protestant will all go to hell if he does not convert to the Catholic faith before he dies. Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1441: “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
The Church dogmatically states that “unless before death they are joined with Her” very clear, who goes to hell.
You asked me to give the name of a Bishop who says those who are outside Christ and His Church go to heaven. I gave you the name and I gave you the quote. Now you, an anomyous blogger here, are going around saying that you judge that this person to be speaking heresy. Yet, Cardinal Kasper was named Bishop of Rottenburg-Stuttgart, Germany’s fourth largest Catholic diocese, on 17 April 1989. On 16 March 1999, Cardinal Kasper was appointed Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. He is also a member of the International Theological Commission, an advisory body to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. He has repeatedly led official delegations of the Vatican on the annual visit to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople, on the occasion of the Patronal Feast of Saint Andrew. In August 2007, he was the head of the Roman Catholic delegation that participated at the funeral ceremony of the Patriarch of the Romanian Christian Orthodox Church, Teoctist. The Holy See Press Office has posted a brief biography of him at the Vatican website:Credentials are irrelevant. Tell me… how many university degrees did Christ have? Our Lord warns against investing too much confidence in the wisdom of men. The teaching of Christ and His church is clear: there is no salvation outside the church. No “credentials” are required to discern that Cardinal Kasper speaks heresy when he suggests otherwise.
Catholics believe in the reality of hell because of the words of Our Savior:hell = The Norse (Viking) godess of the firey underworld in Norse mythology. Used as a scare tactic by Christians converting parts of Europe. The Norse were told if they did not convert to Christianity they would go to a similar place as the Norse firey underworld ruled by their godess Hel. (That’s with one “L”.) Historically, this is where the invention of hell came from. So there really is no such place. If you don’t believe this, look it up!
If Cardinal Kasper holds the views expressed in the quote you provided, all the credentials in the world don’t change the fact that it’s a heresy. Suppose you provided me a quote from Cardinal Kasper that said “1+1 = 3”. According to mathematics, this is false. Likewise, according to Catholic doctrine, Cardinal Kasper’s statement is false. It’s ridiculous to expect me to let an obvious fallacy slide by unchallenged. If I told you (just to be nice) that 1+1 =3, that wouldn’t be an act of charity on my part.You asked me to give the name of a Bishop who says those who are outside Christ and His Church go to heaven. I gave you the name and I gave you the quote. Now you, an anomyous blogger here, are going around saying that you judge that this person to be speaking heresy. Yet, Cardinal Kasper was named Bishop of Rottenburg-Stuttgart, Germany’s fourth largest Catholic diocese, on 17 April 1989. On 16 March 1999, Cardinal Kasper was appointed Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. He is also a member of the International Theological Commission, an advisory body to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. He has repeatedly led official delegations of the Vatican on the annual visit to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople, on the occasion of the Patronal Feast of Saint Andrew. In August 2007, he was the head of the Roman Catholic delegation that participated at the funeral ceremony of the Patriarch of the Romanian Christian Orthodox Church, Teoctist. The Holy See Press Office has posted a brief biography of him at the Vatican website:
vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_biografie/cardinali_bio_kasper_w_en.html
Now it is your turn to give me the name of one bishop who says that Cardinal Kasper speakes heresy. Or the name of one bishop who says that a Jew or a Hindu cannot go to heaven and that they will all go to hell unless they convert to Roman Catholicism.
As you yourself now appear to admit, a Jew or Hindu can be saved, even though he has not been baptised by water in a Roman Catholic Church and even though he is not an official member of the Roman Catholic Church. That was my point from the start of the discussion.If Cardinal Kasper holds the views expressed in the quote you provided, all the credentials in the world don’t change the fact that it’s a heresy. Suppose you provided me a quote from Cardinal Kasper that said “1+1 = 3”. According to mathematics, this is false. Likewise, according to Catholic doctrine, Cardinal Kasper’s statement is false. It’s ridiculous to expect me to let an obvious fallacy slide by unchallenged. If I told you (just to be nice) that 1+1 =3, that wouldn’t be an act of charity on my part.
There’s no need for me to provide the names of Bishops who hold Catholic orthodoxy. It’s somewhat like asking me to go out and find quotes from Bishops who believe that Christ was crucified. It’s assumed that every Bishop holds that there is no salvation outside the Church, since this is an immutable dogma. No Bishop has the authority to change this reality, so the sane thing to do is acknowledge it.
The statement you made (about all Jews or Hindus going to hell) isn’t strictly true. Someone can be part of these communities and still suffering from invincible ignorance. I’ve repeated this many times. If they are not suffering from invincible ignorance, and remain a member of these religions, they will most certainly go to hell. This is the Catholic faith. I don’t repeat it because I’m cruel, I say these things because they’re true. The Holy Church has proclaimed them to be true.
All the fancy titles in the world don’t give anyone the authority to change it.