Who do you say that I am as a Muslim?

[underdog]

underdog, so you will know, you loose ground when you quote Paul to a Muslim. They deny that he had anything ot do with the early church other than to corrupt it and to turn Muslims into pagan Christians.

LOL…Paul is also good for the non-Catholic Christian too.

 

[ralphinal]

LOL…Paul is also good for the non-Catholic Christian too.

I am not sure that you understand. According to Muslims, Paul was a lying, corrupting S.O.B. who tainted Christianity into Christianity from the God-created correct faith of Islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

Paul was a lying, corrupting S.O.B. who tainted Christianity into Christianity from the God-created correct faith of Islam.

Hi

We Muslims or I at least am not in the habit of usings such words as used by you. I think you should being a Catholic, in my opinion, respect your first important clergy.

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[bpbasilphx]

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna.

**If the Jesus and Mary you love are those of Mahometanism, they are NOT the real ones of the Bible.

They are merely entities you made up out of your own mind–that is, idols.

Isa akbar!

**Isa akbar!

ISA AKBAR!

I bear witness there is NO GOD** but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**

 

[paarsurrey]

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna.

**If the Jesus and Mary you love are those of Mahometanism, they are NOT the real ones of the Bible.

They are merely entities you made up out of your own mind–that is, idols.**

Hi

You are most welcome to express your opinion; even though it differes with me. Together we learn.

Thanks

 

[underdog]

I am not sure that you understand. According to Muslims, Paul was a lying, corrupting S.O.B. who tainted Christianity into Christianity from the God-created correct faith of Islam.

Do you believe Muslims have the Spirit of God?

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by **ralphinal **
I am not sure that you understand. According to Muslims, Paul was a lying, corrupting S.O.B. who tainted Christianity into Christianity from the God-created correct faith of Islam.

Do you believe Muslims have the Spirit of God?

Hi

Yes we Muslim do have a Spirit of God; it was, in my opinion, with Jesus to save him from a cursed death on Cross. Whenever God Allah sends a Messenger Prophet; he orders the Holy Spirit to not only to deliver His Word to him but also to help him in the matters of conveying it to the people whom the Messenger is to deliver the message.

In my opinion, it was for this that Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit not on the Cross only but also beyond it in the recovery of his health from the injuries inflicted upon him on the Cross and also to immigrate to India to deliver the message to the lost Sheep of the House of Israel residing there. The Holy Spirit went with Jeus wherever he went; must have accompanied him to his journey to India, in my opinion.

The Holy Spirit, in our opinion, is a servant of God Allah and cannot disobey His orders. The Holy Spirit does what he is commanded by GodAllah; similarly all other angels obey Him.

It was the same Holy Spirit who was with Moses, Abraham,Mary, Buddha and Krishna, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[underdog]

Do you believe Muslims have the Spirit of God?

Ralph, please answer my question above.

 

[underdog]

Hi

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

Do you love the Jesus who proclaimed this?

**Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” **- John 8:58

 

[ralphinal]

Do you believe Muslims have the Spirit of God?

Some do, some do not. However, it should be understood that they have the same level of "Spirit of GOd’ as a rightous gentil would in the Bible. That is to say, not like a baptised Christian or even a Jew.

 

[ralphinal]

Hi

We Muslims or I at least am not in the habit of usings such words as used by you. I think you should being a Catholic, in my opinion, respect your first important clergy.

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

He was not the first important clergy. He was not Paul the Lier. He was chosen and visited by the ressurected Christ to fulfill a role.

You are a kind soul. You are never harsh. However, some of your Muslim brethren are. I can draw the conclusions that they do not say, for fear of showing themselve to be violent or at least anti-Christian. I am not an idiot.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

We Muslims or I at least am not in the habit of usings such words as used by you. I think you should being a Catholic, in my opinion, respect your first important clergy.

I love Jesus and Mary as i do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

You ask us to respect Paul, a Christian saint. But you call Paul the liar because you do not believe in him. So I conclude that if you believe in the prophet you should respect him but if you don’t then you can call him name, right?

Well, we do not believe in Mohammad.

 

[paarsurrey]

But you call Paul the liar

Hi

I think I never called Paul a liar. For the honour of Jesus ,Mary and Truth, sometimes I do expose Paul. Jesus hismelf warned the sheep to guard against; at the most I am following Jesus, in my opinion.

Thanks

 

[cathopologist]

Hi

I think I never called Paul a liar. For the honour of Jesus ,Mary and Truth, sometimes I do expose Paul. Jesus hismelf warned the sheep to guard against; at the most I am following Jesus, in my opinion.

Thanks

Expose St Paul from what? Hasn’t it occured to Muslims, if Paul contradicted Christ’s teachings, he’d be out of the picture already?

 

[planten]

Expose St Paul from what? Hasn’t it occured to Muslims, if Paul contradicted Christ’s teachings, he’d be out of the picture already?

**cathopologist, Paul is another dilemma in church beside Trinity and a few more. Jesus and Paul are poles apart. You can believe what you like. We will not. As we believe that Jesus was not any god, so we do not believe that Paul was ever a friend of Jesus. He was an enemy and a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Jesus had warned about some people coming in his name. paul was one of them. Paul came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad never came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad came in the name of God (Allah).

If any christian can prove that Paul did not use the name of Jesus, he should be rewarded. If any christian can prove that Muhammad used the name of Jesus, he could be likewise rewarded. Wrong stories are being taught by the church to all the world.

We believe that Jesus was right in warning his followers about the wolves in sheeps clothing. He was right. But some people highjacked the whole teachings of Jesus. And misdirected the great advice.

Now coming to the actual post of cathopologist above, it is not necessary that the church could now flush out Paul. It is too late. The damage was done very early. The chritians could not flush out the falsehood from the truth in very early times, Paul went to far places preaching his philosophy (his own philosophy) and went to the gentiles (greeks etc). Those people did not know anything about the very basic of the Judaic system. They knew nothing about the teachings of Jesus. Paul also did not know anything from Jesus. He had not spent even one day with Jesus. So paul had a free hand amongst gentiles.

Paul himself said that he never went back to Jerusalem or Damascus. He went to Arabia…

Please forgive us for not believing in Paul. He is nothing to us Muslims. He is not in our books. The one complaint of the church that we do not believe in Jesus as god is hard enough for us. If you put another burden of believing in Paul, then that will be too much for us.**

 

[ralphinal]

And yet you cannot see how Muhammed could be the wolf in sheep’s clothing?

 

[cathopologist]

Jesus and Paul are poles apart. You can believe what you like. We will not.

Of course they are poles apart. Jesus is God made flesh. Paul was a saint.

As we believe that Jesus was not any god, so we do not believe that Paul was ever a friend of Jesus. He was an enemy and a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Your diatribe does not prove how Paul contradicted Jesus’ teachings.

**Jesus had warned about some people coming in his name. paul was one of them. Paul came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad never came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad came in the name of God (Allah). **

If Paul was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the Apostles would have realized that immediately. Mohammad did worse than come in the name of Jesus, he emulated Jesus and claimed his authority was greater than His.

If any christian can prove that Paul did not use the name of Jesus, he should be rewarded. If any christian can prove that Muhammad used the name of Jesus, he could be likewise rewarded. Wrong stories are being taught by the church to all the world.

Paul praised the name of Jesus, not pretend to be Jesus. Mohammad pretended to be like Jesus and likened his mother, Aminah to Mary. That’s wishful hallucination.

We believe that Jesus was right in warning his followers about the wolves in sheeps clothing. He was right. But some people highjacked the whole teachings of Jesus. And misdirected the great advice.

Like Mohammad?

Now coming to the actual post of cathopologist above, it is not necessary that the church could now flush out Paul. It is too late. The damage was done very early. The chritians could not flush out the falsehood from the truth in very early times, Paul went to far places preaching his philosophy (his own philosophy) and went to the gentiles (greeks etc). Those people did not know anything about the very basic of the Judaic system. They knew nothing about the teachings of Jesus. Paul also did not know anything from Jesus. He had not spent even one day with Jesus. So paul had a free hand amongst gentiles.

I find your conspiracist theory amusing. Have you considered all of Jesus’ apostles were Jews, including Paul? How can you say Jews do not know anything about the ‘Judaic system’ but you, as an Ahmadi know better?

Paul himself said that he never went back to Jerusalem or Damascus. He went to Arabia…

Please forgive us for not believing in Paul. He is nothing to us Muslims. He is not in our books. The one complaint of the church that we do not believe in Jesus as god is hard enough for us. If you put another burden of believing in Paul, then that will be too much for us.

Please forgive us for not believing in Mohammad. He was never at the Dome of the Rock and did not ascended to heaven from there.

 

[Beachcomber]

I don’t have any profound thoughts to add here, just wanted to express my opinion that this is a very interesting and informative thread. The differences in opinions make for a very lively discussion.

Here’s a link I found that was helpful to me when I wanted to learn more about Islam: www.islamreligion.com

 

[underdog]

Some do, some do not. However, it should be understood that they have the same level of "Spirit of GOd’ as a rightous gentil would in the Bible. That is to say, not like a baptised Christian or even a Jew.

Are you saying that the Catholic Church teaches that non-Christians can have the Spirit of God? I believe the Bible clearly teaches that we receive the Spirt of God upon faith in Christ as a deposit of faith. Please help me understand because the Spirt of God is just another name of God the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Christ.

Ephesians 1

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us [2] for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known [3] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Romans 5

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith** into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.**

 

[underdog]

Can the Muslims really have the Spirit of God who is the 3rd person of the godhead according to Jesus?

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, [6] to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, 31 but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.