Who do you vote for, Joe or John?

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Dear Island Oak,
Yes, you make all the rational points that have kept me from risking a relationship for these 8 years. Your arguements are very sound. I’m really torn. I guess at this point I feel like I’m going to need to take a risk in some way, at least to explore whether one of these men might be suitable.
 
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spiritblows:
Dear Island Oak,
Yes, you make all the rational points that have kept me from risking a relationship for these 8 years. Your arguements are very sound. I’m really torn. I guess at this point I feel like I’m going to need to take a risk in some way, at least to explore whether one of these men might be suitable.
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Hey–explore all you want–you’re entitled. Just go slow on making a long-term commitment–and maybe make the effort to add a few other options to the mix to see how Joe & John stack up. And as for your frustration with the absence of a legitimate ‘physical outlet,’ I hear ya and concede that is a burden in your current situation. But burning with unfulfilled passion is easier to bear than burning up with anger, regret and despair over an ill-advised commitment.
 
Spiritblows:

Should you end up with either of these men, tell them that I said that he is the luckiest man alive. God bless you!
 
I also want to add some information that gives me hope for the imperfections of these men. When I met my late husband, he was not a practising Catholic, although had been baptized as one, and I was unbaptized. I grew up in a atheist/agnostic secular Jewish home, that was actually hostile to Catholicism. I became interested in Catholicism by the people I met through NFP. I had a lot of kids because I wanted a large family, and my interest in natural methods of childspacing were more based on health concerns, and discomfort with the medical approach.

My husband was a great guy, very outdoorsy, loved to climb mountains, ski, run triathalons, etc. He did drink alcohol, beer and wine, perhaps a little too regularly. I became a Catholic 13 years ago out of my own interest, after having explored various Protestant churches and found them lacking. We got our marriage recelebrated in the Church, and he died a practising Catholic, pretty much through my influence. He was a very good man, who was generous and loyal, and very tolerant of others. I still miss him.
 
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spiritblows:
I also want to add some information that gives me hope for the imperfections of these men. When I met my late husband, he was not a practising Catholic, although had been baptized as one, and I was unbaptized. I grew up in a atheist/agnostic secular Jewish home, that was actually hostile to Catholicism. I became interested in Catholicism by the people I met through NFP. I had a lot of kids because I wanted a large family, and my interest in natural methods of childspacing were more based on health concerns, and discomfort with the medical approach.

My husband was a great guy, very outdoorsy, loved to climb mountains, ski, run triathalons, etc. He did drink alcohol, beer and wine, perhaps a little too regularly. I became a Catholic 13 years ago out of my own interest, after having explored various Protestant churches and found them lacking. We got our marriage recelebrated in the Church, and he died a practising Catholic, pretty much through my influence. He was a very good man, who was generous and loyal, and very tolerant of others. I still miss him.
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I think that it is the fact that you had a wonderful, successful Catholic marriage that is the basis for your wanting another one. And I think you will have one…just trust in the Lord, He will provide the perfect mate for you. You are a good woman, and the Lord does know what is the best for you.
 
SB:

Your husband sounds like he was a life-loving man, and a wonderful husband, and father. A hard act to follow too. And your conversion story is really incredible. Now I see why you have the depth of understanding to realize that everyone is “in process” so to speak and a good Catholic marriage can develop over a period of time. Okay, now I’ll vote. Joe. (By the way, my husband is three years younger than I am, I see the age difference is relatively unimportant.) Please keep us posted, it’s been a fascinating thread!
 
“don’t be unequally yoked”
  1. I would find out if Joe really does smoke pot or not
  2. I would try and see whether he’s really going to stick with the Church this time or not, or if its just another phase (though I would say someone who is on again off again with church is probably a better choice than someone who is totally not interested - but I still wouldn’t marry someone who wasn’t truly serious about his relationship with God)
  3. If both 1 and 2 end up answered unsatisfactorily, then I would say neither is better than being unequally yoked
 
Dear Spiritblows –

Did you know that you can offer your burden of desiring intimacy to God? We can offer Him all our frustrations, desires, worries, pains and sufferings. He will take these burdens and turn them into graces for you or for those you offer them up for.

Also, since marital intimacy mirrors the love of God and His desire to be with us, when you feel the “desire” – go to Our Lord and He will help you through it.

Catholic author Gregory Popcak in his book “Beyond the Birds and the Bees” talks about how sometimes our sexual desires are really the desire for us to be closer to God. The Creator calling out to the created to spend time together.

As St. Augustine said, We are made by and for the Creator, and our souls will be restless until they rest in Thee, O God.
 
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spiritblows:
Dear Island Oak,
Yes, you make all the rational points that have kept me from risking a relationship for these 8 years. Your arguements are very sound. I’m really torn. I guess at this point I feel like I’m going to need to take a risk in some way, at least to explore whether one of these men might be suitable.
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Take a risk, yes… but don’t settle. Being in bed with the wrong husband is far lonelier than being in bed with no husband at all. Not only do you deserve better, but they deserve better. No guy wants to read his new wife’s mind and hear “I married you because I needed some sex and I didn’t think I could afford to be picky.” That is quite different from “You may not be perfect, but I wouldn’t have any other, because you’re the one for me.” That is what your husband deserves from you.

Do pray for God to send you someone. He only has to find you one! There isn’t a scraggly horse in this world but that you can find a scraggly bush to tie it to… but if you think that either the bride or the groom is “scraggly”, that’s a marriage to stay out of. It is not only a recipe for an unhappy marriage. It might literally be an impediment to a valid marriage.

If the married fellow isn’t at least in the process of getting an annulment, don’t go an inch past being friends. Also, don’t forget that annulment is not divorce. If the only problem was that his wife just got tired of him, that is not grounds for an annulment. In that case, he will never be free to marry you.

And speaking of… you sound bored with him, and you haven’t even started dating him yet! Hasn’t he been taken for granted enough in one lifetime?
 
Okay, I think I’ve ruled out Joe. I know he has been grieving the loss of his Grandma, but I think he’s too flakey for me. I called the bikeshop because he had called me back and told me that I needed tire liners for my tires. I left my bike at the hardware store a few weeks ago, then walked home and it got stolen. So I dragged out my husband’s old bike, which is a pretty good Mt bike, and I lowered the seat, and it needed a new inner tube.

He answered the phone, and said, sure that he’d be there. Then I got down there and it was closed. So I drove past his house and there he was on his way to play frisbee golf at the frisbee course he just finished. He hangs out with guys in their 20s. The young guy who he was going with graduated with my 20 year old son, nice kid, but really, I think Joe is one of those Peter Pan syndrome guys. Anyways, I don’t mind independent guys, but unreliable would get old fast.

He turned on the charm and told me that he’d give the bike the once over for free, which of course I’ll happily accept, but really, the excuse that it slipped his mind shows me that he’s a flake, or else smokes pot.
 
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spiritblows:
Dear Island Oak,
Yes, you make all the rational points that have kept me from risking a relationship for these 8 years. Your arguements are very sound. I’m really torn. I guess at this point I feel like I’m going to need to take a risk in some way, at least to explore whether one of these men might be suitable.
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I’m late to the conversation, but this quote grabbed my attention. It’s one thing to risk your own life with your choice between these two men, but it’s an entirely other thing to risk your children’s lives. I’m with those who counsel that you wait until your youngest is 18.

With my prayers,
Frances
 
Okay, what do you think about this, if anyone is following this thread. Mike called here to humbly apologise to me for forgeting that I called and not being at the bike shop. What does that mean? Help me here, I’m really very inexperienced with this. He said I can just bring the bike by his house in the morning before I go out of town. Any opinions?
 
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spiritblows:
Okay, what do you think about this, if anyone is following this thread. Mike called here to humbly apologise to me for forgeting that I called and not being at the bike shop. What does that mean? Help me here, I’m really very inexperienced with this. He said I can just bring the bike by his house in the morning before I go out of town. Any opinions?
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It means he doesn’t want to lose any future business.

Men who are inconsiderate of you before any courting has even begun will not suddenly grow wings of consideration during courtship.

One thing I noticed about my husband when I first met him was that he is gracious and considerate to everyone–not just those who are suited his schedule or personal interest. This translates into his interpersonal relationships even more deeply.
 
Well, I’ve noticed that Joe (not mike, forget I said that :o) is really nice to people. He has a robust manner that is exhuberent and kind. But, I’m sort of a stickler for being on time, and flakiness gets on my nerves.
 
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Katie1723:
You can too be picky. As a matter of fact you SHOULD be picky. Never ever just settle!

As to your original question…in a word…NEITHER!
Code: 
                        ~ Kathy ~
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Hi:
I have to agree with this post. Just from reading your replies, it doesn’t sound like you’re too excited about either one. Marriage should be about love.
I wish you the best in finding someone special. I’ll even say a prayer for that intention.
 
I think that the most important thing to keep in mind is that marriage is for salvation – it is the taking up of one’s cross. If John is more responsible, but would not help you to draw closer to Christ, then he may not be a good match. Consider: is this a man who will help you through the pain and sacrifice of old age, of providing for children, and of eventually dying? Is this a man who will pray with you in the evening, and who will help your children to keep the faith during the difficult teenage and college years? (the challenge to morality and even faith itself is profound in college)

These are the most important questions, from my point of view.
 
From a guy’s point of view.

Joe has my vote as long as the pot issue is settled.

That is a serious question that need’s to be answered. So flat out ask him.

Have you visited his home?

Have you seen any clues that he does smoke pot? Does he smoke cigs? If he doesn’t do you see ash trays around? Why?

Do you smell any pot in his house, on his clothes, in his hair?

Be very careful in this area because if he does smoke pot your kids will know very quickly. If your kids go to public schools they will be exposed to it and will know the signs of a "pot head’ and what it smells like. So I’m sure they will than decide that if Mom is dating a pot head it can’t be all that bad. A slippery slope to say the least.

Now if he does smoke pot and is willing to stop smoking so he can be with you and the kids. I would still be cautious, pot smoking is a hard addiction to stop. It is usually the first addiction (other than sugar and caffine) and the last one to overcome.

I have know parents who smoke but claim thet don’t smoke in front of the kids. They will go in another room to smoke and would like to believe the kid’s are so stupid they don’t know why all the adults are in the bedroom . Sorry, kids know whats going on in there.

He does sound like a nice guy and if the pot issue is settled he would be the choice that makes the most sense.

He must like kids, thats a bonus. He’s a Catholic that prays the rosary, a big bonus. A man that took care of his Grandmother a very huge bonus.

But, how does he feel about you and the kids? Does he involve himself with the kids? When he invites you out does he invite the kids too.?

When I was dating and if the lady had kids, I would find things to do that involved the kids. I wanted to know if I was going to be able to get along with them because if I couldn’t, I knew that the relationship was just not going to work out.

Just be careful your kids are number one.
 
I would ask another question about Joe and kids:

Is Joe “good” with kids because he’s “cool” and plays frisbee with them, and makes them feel a bit older, and seems like “one of the boys”…?

Or, do kids like him because he is fun, encouraging, and someone that they respect and look up to?

When I was in sixth grade, my favorite teacher was a bit of a bad-boy, a 28-year-old who was still stuck at age 18, who “bonded” with us by taking an anti-authoritarian stance, amking jokes about breaking the rules, and participating in our kid activities. Sure, we thought he was cool, but we could hardly have considered him as a loving, dependable, respectable father. He was more of an older-brother.

A father must be respected by his children, who know that he is a rock upon whom they can depend, in addition to being playful, loving, affectionate, and humorous.

There is a definite difference between being liked because you’re “cool” and liked because you’re a role-model.

Joe sounds cool, but your comments do not entirely indicate that he’s a role-model.
 
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GeorgeSutton:
I would ask another question about Joe and kids:

Is Joe “good” with kids because he’s “cool” and plays frisbee with them, and makes them feel a bit older, and seems like “one of the boys”…?

Or, do kids like him because he is fun, encouraging, and someone that they respect and look up to?

Excellent point and a very good question that needs to be answered.
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My vote: NEITHER!!

Put your children first. Pray to God for a widower, someone
who loved his wife.
 
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