Yes, poor me with my darkened intellect so inferior to your “white and delightsome” mind.
The Holy Book of Mormon taught me to discern, both by word and by experience, truly a marvelous help.
So you are positing the “Limited Geography Theory” of the BOM? That’s strange, since you decry the LDS and they’re the ones who came up with that to defend against the DNA evidence showing that the Amerindians are Mongolian in ancestry.
I don’t recall using that term in my statement. Our model is based on what TBOM says, it didn’t say S. America, so we had nothing to change. Ours has always been as it stands. So simple that a child could understand.
The BOM itself says that there was no one else on the American continents when Lehi and his family arrived (I believe you cited that passage a short while ago).
TBOM does not say that, but the uninformed have assumed it, you included. We have TBOM references that show there were others there before them. Again, very straight forward, nothing imagined or fabricated.
All Mormons believed and taught that until the DNA evidence came forth, and then suddenly the LGT shows up. Now they must do violence to the BOM text in order to protect their belief.
As I said, God does not want the Mormon church finding the true location, or the archaeological finds to back them up. They are deluded and will remain deluded so long as they ignore the teachings of TBOM.
Anyway, here is the math for the 230,000: Mormon 6:9-15 with a running total: Note that Mormon calls the fallen soldiers “my people”, not “mercenaries” “allies” or “those other guys” but “my people”, IOW Nephites.
Did you think we didn’t crunch the numbers ourselves? What did you think of Governor Clinton’s statement? Perfect match!
On the other note regarding who they were and how they were referred, TBOM is explicit that the believers, regardless of tribe or family name were considered “Nephites.”
It was a war over spiritual differences, of course those who sided with the Nephites from outlying areas were believers in Jesus Christ, and therefore Moroni would consider them his people/his team/his side. Ever been on a sports team? Same thing.
Your notion that these were non-Lehites recruited from other indigenous peoples is purely your own invention, not supported at all by the BOM text.
There is plenty of support. The Hopewell people disappeared at the same time as the Nephites. They, or the believers among them came and fought, and died at the same time!
If you think I’m wrong, show me where the BOM describes non-Lehites living in the Americas and the Nephites’ interactions with them. The bible is quite descriptive of the other cultures and peoples the Israelites interacted with. I would expect the same from the BOM.
These plates contain the smallest amount of non-essentials, or, not important for your salvation details for a reason. Don’t worry, the other records will come forth with what you are asking about.
Nevertheless, the facts are straightforward and present. After a mere
fifty-five years, Jacob records that a man named Sherem came among them. You will notice that no family relation is stated, no “son of” reference. Keep in mind, it had only been
55 years!
Next, Jacob says that a whole “multitude” gathered together to hear about it. Where did “the multitude” come from? The locals of course.
Just because he did not waste his time engraving non-essentials, don’t let that cause you to overlook the essentials, which Jacob has plenty of. The allegory of the olive trees, his vision of the last days, and the fact that he met Christ - wow!
Consider the American Indian reservations. They are side-by-side to many cities and counties and yet we rarely hear of them in our papers, or on the radio, or TV, yet they’re right next door!
And third, Jacob had to speak out against polygamy. So where did the extra women to have polygamous relationships come from? The locals of course. Ever see the movie called
The Bounty? Yes, American Indians were easily taken in by the white man.
Once more, it is very straight forward.
Not in the same condition, but surely recognizable. 421 AD is just this morning in archeological time. Much older sites (even in the Americas) have yielded artifacts in good condition that can easily be tied to specific cultures.
As we detail on our geography site, plenty of things have been found, for example, at the ancient
City of Zarahemla was found a
copper plate with “
ancient engravings” on it. Also was found “several hundred pounds of axes” the iron of which was of “superior quality.”
At the ancient
City of Bountiful it was reported to “have yielded for years, hundreds and even
thousands of weapons, tools and utensils made and left there by the
pre-historic occupants of the region.”
God did not, and does not want any evidence to be found to give credit to the Mormon Church. We actual know the location of a Nephite camp that was last used in the final battle. No one has asked to see it. Mormons are scared to death that their years of toil in South America were for naught.
.
or maybe :whacky: and :hypno: and :whackadoo:
or maybe just :coffeeread:
Why else could Tolkien, a noted linguist, have been interested in the subject?