Who is in charge of hell?

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kill051 said:
light of God’s love that warms the saints in Heaven is the same fire that torments the damned in Hell.
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I think what is important in this and any Biblical discussion is that we are more often talking about context, the understanding of a concept. There can be many layers to the meaning. When we try to claim word-for-word understanding, we can and often get it wrong. I know. As a former Baptist, I understood the Bible as literal. This really forced my understanding into a tight box which didn’t seem to fit Christ’s teachings.
 
The way I learned it in Judaism is that HaSatan serves three functions: one is that of the tempter, who seduces us to do evil; a second is that of the accuser in the heavenly tribunal, who compels us to defend our earthly lives before G-d; and a third is that of the angel of death. None of these roles is in opposition to G-d’s will. In other words, HaSatan is designated to tempt us so that our free will can be tested; however, both HaSatan and G-d hope that we choose to obey rather than disobey G-d. The role of accuser in the heavenly tribunal elicits from us our own judgment according to the lives we have led; in other words, we pass judgment over ourselves, while G-d sentences us either to heaven or hell. The angel of death function of HaSatan is for those who are sentenced by G-d to hell to execute that sentence by transporting us to hell since it is too painful for G-d to do so. Now, there is concurrently a folk tradition in Judaism which interprets HaSatan as an evil spirit, a demon, one among many such creatures, perhaps the strongest and most determined, but in any case acting CONTRARY to G-d’s will. So, as typical of Judaism, there is a double image of HaSatan: the most orthodox one as a servant of G-d’s who takes care of dirty business, while the other an arrogant demonic creature who defies G-d.
 
Dlee said:
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kill051:
light of God’s love that warms the saints in Heaven is the same fire that torments the damned in Hell.
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I think what is important in this and any Biblical discussion is that we are more often talking about context, the understanding of a concept. There can be many layers to the meaning. When we try to claim word-for-word understanding, we can and often get it wrong. I know. As a former Baptist, I understood the Bible as literal. This really forced my understanding into a tight box which didn’t seem to fit Christ’s teachings.
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Excellent point, Dlee. I am sure that we can agree that Newman’s statement is probably best seen in a metaphorical light, rather than literally, as if the blessed souls had a sort of space heater labeled Love. This just re-emphasises how far beyond our understanding the next world really is.
 
I’ve heard theologians say that Satan has more influence over the other devils/demons in hell. Whether this means he’s in charge, I don’t know.

Revelation 12 says “Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth.”

And

Then war broke out in heaven; Michael* and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its (like they belonged to it) angels fought back, but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

The dragon and it’s angels. This dragon obviously was the leader and was able to incite the angels to fight against God.

I’d say this dragon/Satan has considerable sway over the other angels and if anyone is in charge of hell, presently, it’s the dragon/Satan.

But once he’s cast into hell forever, it will lose all influence it has.

just my 2 cents
 
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Dlee said:
As I stated, this is their opinion.
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I’d like to see their reason for that opinion
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Dlee:
My answer would be that God created everything.
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I would just ask, Who else but God could create Hell?
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Dlee:
Theologically, I don’t know if this is correct. I am open to learning and understanding which is why I more often refer to Catholic Answers rather than the forum.
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I have to admit, I was surprised at their answer. As I said previously, I’d like to see their reason for their answer. It seems to conflict with God’s justice. See this article Tim Staples
 
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kill051 said:
This just re-emphasises how far beyond our understanding the next world really is.
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Yes! I often wonder if we’re spending too much time on these type of questions rather than sharing the Gospel of Christ. It’s a slippery slope which in history has led to division. (But it is mind-stretching!)
 
steve-b said:
See this article Tim Staples
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Yes, I’ve read that. The OP would not accept much of what Staples wrote. There is so much we don’t and can’t understand with our limited human minds. Just the understanding of “outside of time” and such boggles my mind.
 
Dlee said:
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steve-b:
See this article Tim Staples
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Yes, I’ve read that. The OP would not accept much of what Staples wrote. There is so much we don’t and can’t understand with our limited human minds. Just the understanding of “outside of time” and such boggles my mind.
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I think the OP is trying to get their head around
  1. eternity, where there is no clock or Calendar, it’s just the eternal now
  2. that there is the reality souls are there (in hell) forever, with no chance of getting out for all eternity
Kinda makes one’s head hurt. But we wouldn’t know any of this if it wasn’t for Divine revelation. The One who spoke in the beginning and everything that is, came into existence, told us of Heaven AND Hell. Not either/or but both exist… for a reason
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
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What did you learn about this scripture?:

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
13 And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north.
14 I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
15 But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.
16 They that shall see thee, shall turn toward thee, and behold thee. Is this the man that troubled the earth, that shook kingdoms,
17 That made the world a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof, that opened not the prison to his prisoners?
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I live in that part of the world where it is morning (9 AM) now and so could not join live in the proceeding 15-20 postings.Just a consolidated response to these postings:
1.Agree that I sprinkled a little bit of humor.Sorry if any body is offended by these innocent (but somewhat meaningful)emojis.
2. Nobody touched some crucial points I raised in between such as:
A.What God said that everything created is good ,not includes hell.
B. God prepared hell,no doubt.So no meaning then in telling that he did not ‘create’ hell.
C.If the fire is God’s love,what are the worms? Both are allways mentioned together when describing hell
D.Are we doing sin/wrong things only because satan instigate us? Without his ‘help’ we can’t do these things?
3. My original question in the OP still remains
elusive,I suppose .
 
Interpreting Isaiah is always a complex matter. I suppose Judaism sides with Calvin and Luther regarding the meaning of this passage. That is, it does NOT refer at all to Lucifer transformed to Satan after his expulsion from heaven, but rather to Venus, the morning star, who was likened at the time to the King of Babylon. So Isaiah may have been metaphorically speaking of the Babylonian king, his rise and fall. That interpretation would fit the context of the subject matter in this portion of Isaiah better.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Interpreting Isaiah is always a complex matter. I suppose Judaism sides with Calvin and Luther regarding the meaning of this passage. That is, it does NOT refer at all to Lucifer transformed to Satan after his expulsion from heaven, but rather to Venus, the morning star, who was likened at the time to the King of Babylon. So Isaiah may have been metaphorically speaking of the Babylonian king, his rise and fall. That interpretation would fit the context of the subject matter in this portion of Isaiah better.
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Catholic too take Lucifer as literally the human King of Babylon. It is also validly used in a spiritual sense to refer to the devil.

And the Christian cross reference is Luke 10:
17 The seventy[-two] returned rejoicing, and said, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us because of your name.” 18 Jesus said, “I have observed Satan fall like lightning* from the sky.
  • [10:18] I have observed Satan fall like lightning: the effect of the mission of the seventy-two is characterized by the Lucan Jesus as a symbolic fall of Satan. As the kingdom of God is gradually being established, evil in all its forms is being defeated; the dominion of Satan over humanity is at an end.
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Luther and Judaism agreeing on anything? Luther 's writings reveal that he was a profound anti-Semite.
 
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