Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

[LeafByNiggle]

Never said that. But it does not allow for making moral judgments against or notwithstanding the teachings of the Church.

I never said that!

What churchman has ever said elective abortion is okay under any circumstance other than as a secondary and unintended effect to a medical treatment to save the life of the mother?

I never said that either. Anyone who reads my post and then reads your response sees that you are responding to a position I have not taken

 

[Ridgerunner]

Those who read the posts can make their own judgments about it.

 

[drcube]

Those who read the posts can make their own judgments about it.

They certainly can, and I invite any readers to go through your argument that sex outside of marriage has nothing to do with abortion even though 85% of abortions in the US are performed on unmarried women in determining how valid your posts are when you interpret what other posters say.

 

[Metis1]

Yep, and it’s just appalling that we have to keep repeating what we do believe and say because some just find it so convenient to stereotype others and having us take positions that we don’t take. But then, look who these same people support.

 

[dvdjs]

Yep, and it’s just appalling that we have to keep repeating what we do believe and say because some just find it so convenient to stereotype others and having us take positions that we don’t take.

And such behavior is clearly incompatible with forum guidelines.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I invite any readers to go through your argument that sex outside of marriage has nothing to do with abortion even though 85% of abortions in the US are performed on unmarried women in determining how valid your posts are when you interpret what other posters say.

I didn’t say this, of course. Sex outside of marriage CAN result in abortions, just as OVERWHELMINGLY MOST abortions worldwide are by married women.

No inherent link between sex outside marriage and abortion has been established, let alone that Trump’s having had sex with his second wife while still married to his first has any effect on abortion whatever.

 

[dvdjs]

No inherent link between sex outside marriage and abortion has been established

The actual argument here is simple.

1. The question of an “inherent link” is a red herring. The number of abortions in various subgroups of women and in various places and cultures will depend on many things, access to abortion, access to contraception, prevailing cultural norms on sex outside of marriage, etc., etc.
2. The discussion here was about the US, where we actually have a fairly decent sense of the culture.
3. OVERWHELMINGLY MOST abortions in the US are by unmarried women.

it is not the least bit unfair to say taht in the US who engage and “support” a culture of casual, unprotected sex among uncommitted people are contributors to and “support” the elevated numbers of abortions.

 

[pnewton]

I do not like seeing Catholics (or Americans) choose sides against each other. It never turns out well. While I am not a single-issue voter by any means, I understand why some are, and would encourage all to respect that choice. Abortion is really, really, bad. It is unique, evil, singular, and deserving of single issue voters. I only would encourage those who take this issue as the sole determiner of who they vote for to respect those who do not. It should be enough that the Church’s understanding of life permeate our faith. Then trust your fellow Catholics. If we were all single issue voters, then politicians would have no reason to ever listen to Catholics, except on one issue. If we had no single issue voters on abortion, then there would be no political reason for a politician to be against it.

The Republicans deserve to have some Catholics abandon their candidate, considering their choice last election, just like Democrats deserve to have Catholics consider them the party of death. There is room for more than one Catholic opinion. While in any given election it may look counterproductive, there are strategic goals that go beyond a single election cycle.

 

[pnewton]

No inherent link between sex outside marriage and abortion has been established, let alone that Trump’s having had sex with his second wife while still married to his first has any effect on abortion whatever.

Understand though, that while you me believe insufficient evidence that Trump is a bad moral example of serial adultery, womanizing and sexual harassment, many believe the evidence is over-whelming that he is.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Understand though, that while you me believe insufficient evidence that Trump is a bad moral example of serial adultery, womanizing and sexual harassment, many believe the evidence is over-whelming that he is.

Sure. Lots of people believe lots of things because they’re told they should. Most of the above would be false.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If we were all single issue voters, then politicians would have no reason to ever listen to Catholics, except on one issue

But consider this. If the overwhelming majority of Catholics voted against pro-abortion candidates, it would force the Democrat party to abandon its advocacy of elective abortion because it would quickly find that it couldn’t win many races if it did not. Two presidential races with no Catholics voting Democrat would do it.

And then the parties could concentrate their energies on other things. It is only because too few Catholics vote against the abortion candidates that an entire political party is dedicated to defending it.

 

[drcube]

I didn’t say this, of course.

Oh, I’m sorry. Gosh, it might be terrible for someone to misinterpret what you wrote.

Sex outside of marriage CAN result in abortions, just as OVERWHELMINGLY MOST abortions worldwide are by married women.

And this discussion is about the US Presidential election, so it makes sense to discuss what is happening in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

No inherent link between sex outside marriage and abortion has been established, let alone that Trump’s having had sex with his second wife while still married to his first has any effect on abortion whatever.

I posted that 85% of abortions sought in the US are by unmarried women and you still think there is no link. Got it. Readers, please keep this in mind when you read @Ridgerunner’s posts.

 

[pnewton]

I posted that 85% of abortions sought in the US are by unmarried women and you still think there is no link.

I always like to remember that correlation does not equal causation. Or it may be that the link is something else. In any case, if making abortion illegal is coming close to being legally impossible (short of a change to the Constitution), then stopping sex outside of marriage is a train that has already left the station and run off the rails down the line. I would think it more profitable to concentrate efforts on reducing abortion to making the prospect of having a child outside of marriage less burdensome.

 

[JimG]

If casual sex outside of marriage is a big problem, and I think it is, then I look forward to finding many Democrat candidates who will advocate for polices aimed at eliminating casual sex outside of marriage. That would be a positive development. But I haven’t seen a lot of advocacy for chastity or for traditional marriage. Pretty much the opposite.

 

[pnewton]

I would like to run on a platform of a bill to ban abortion and institute universal healthcare, to see if Democrats really want universal healthcare, and Republicans are really most concerned about abortion.

 

[dvdjs]

If casual sex outside of marriage is a big problem

in the US.

then I look forward to finding many Democrat candidates who will advocate for polices aimed at eliminating casual sex outside of marriage.

Do you also look for Republicans to candidates to “advocate for polices aimed at eliminating casual sex outside of marriage”.

 

[JimG]

I would be pleased to see both parties advocate for such policies. It would lead to a better society.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Isn’t your question a “whataboutism” something you seem to disdain ?.

 

[Elf01]

I would like to run on a platform of a bill to ban abortion and institute universal healthcare, to see if Democrats really want universal healthcare, and Republicans are really most concerned about abortion.

Where is that ballot paper? There is very little tjat would convince me not to vote for you with that platform.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would like to run on a platform of a bill to ban abortion and institute universal healthcare, to see if Democrats really want universal healthcare, and Republicans are really most concerned about abortion.

Then those who accuse prolifers of being “single issue voters” would be all the more convinced.