Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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Responsible for the death of thousands of innocent Iraqi’s and American troops

To be pro-life is to be in favour of life, not just against abortion
There is a difference between intentional, knowing and targeted killing of innocents, versus the accidental killing of innocents. Bush did everything possible to target in field combatants.

Further, compare 50,000,000+ killed versus the total in Iraq, and then consider the 50-million is added to by 1.1.15 million every year.

I suppose you would say WWII was unjust.
 
There is a difference between intentional, knowing and targeted killing of innocents, versus the accidental killing of innocents. Bush did everything possible to target in field combatants.

I suppose you would say WWII was unjust.
There is such a thing as justified murder, but the actions of Bush does not justify the death of Iraqi’s and Americans.
 
That makes no sense at all
It is from Proverbs. The Hebrew word for “fear” can also be translated as “awe”
Fear of the Lord is one of the Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, as described in Isaiah 11:2-3. In Proverbs 1:7 and Proverbs 9:10, the fear of the Lord is called the beginning or foundation of wisdom. In Proverbs 15:33, the fear of the Lord is described as the “discipline” or “instruction” of wisdom.[1][2] The Catholic Encyclopedia explains that this gift “fills us with a sovereign respect for God, and makes us dread, above all things, to offend Him.”[3]
source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_the_Lord
 
I find it interesting that the two candidates that are generally deemed most likely to get the GOP nomination - Romney and Pawlenty - are getting very few votes. I also find it interesting that the GOPer with the highest vote tally is a novelty candidate. Is there really that little enthusiasm for the mainstream GOP candidates?
Novelty? :confused:

Why so little enthusiasm for “main stream GOP candidate”? John McCain.
 
Um, why?

Shouldn’t we be loving and honouring God rather than fearing him?
Pro abortion Christians / Catholics say they love and honor God. Their choice is to presume God’s forgiveness instead of fearing His judgement.
 
There is such a thing as justified murder, but the actions of Bush does not justify the death of Iraqi’s and Americans.
murder can never be justified. There is justifiable killing, but not all killing is murder.
 
I find it interesting that the two candidates that are generally deemed most likely to get the GOP nomination - Romney and Pawlenty - are getting very few votes. I also find it interesting that the GOPer with the highest vote tally is a novelty candidate. Is there really that little enthusiasm for the mainstream GOP candidates?
I do not think this little poll is an accurate portrayal of voters. :rolleyes:

There are 270,000 registered people on Catholic Forum, you could have majority Democrats voting on the poll.

If you want to show what candidate has got people’s interest then you need a fair number of equal Republicans, Democrats, and Independents.

This is not a weak GOP field. It is a typical GOP field:

Let’s go back to 1964, which was arguably the first year of the modern campaign era. Then we’ll work our way forward with those open years or years when the GOP was the out of power party.

In 1964 we had:
Hiram Fong of Hawaii
Barry Goldwater of Arizona
Walter Henry Judd of Maryland
Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. of Massachusetts
Nelson Rockefeller of New York
George Romney of Michigan
William Scranton of Pennsylania
Margaret Chase Smith of Maine
Harold Stassen of Minnesota

In 1968 we had:
Frank Carlson of Kansas
Clifford Case of New Jersey
John Lindsay of New York
Richard Nixon, then of New York
Ronald Reagan of California
Jim Rhodes of Ohio
George Romney of Michigan
Nelson Rockefeller of New York
Winthrop Rockefeller of Arkansas
Harold Stassen of Minnesota
John Volpe of Massachusetts

In 1980 we had:
John Anderson of Illinois
Howard Baker of Tennessee
George H. W. Bush of Texas
John Connally of Texas
Phil Crane of Illinois
Bob Dole of Kansas
Larry Pressler of South Dakota
Ronald Reagan of California
Harold Stassen of Pennsylvania
Lowell Weicker of Connecticut

In 1988 we had:
George H. W. Bush of Texas
Bob Dole of Kansas
Pierre S. du Pont, IV of Delaware
Alexander Haig of Pennsylvania
Jack Kemp of New York
Paul Laxalt of Nevada
Harold Stassen of Minnesota
Pat Robertson of Virginia

In 1996 we had:
Lamar Alexander of Tennessee
Pat Buchanan of Virginia
**Bob Dole of Kansas
**Robert K. Dornan of California
Steve Forbes of New York
Phil Gramm of Texas
Alan Keyes of Maryland
Richard Lugar of Indiana
Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania
Morry Taylor of Ohio
Pete Wilson of California

In 2000, we had:
Lamar Alexander of Tennessee
Gary Bauer of Kentucky
Pat Buchanana of Virginia
George W. Bush of Texas
Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina
Steve Forbes of New York
Orrin Hatch of Utah
John Kasich of Ohio
Alan Keyes of Maryland
John McCain of Arizona
Dan Qualye of Indiana
Bob Smith of New Hampshire

In 2008, we had:
Sam Brownback of Kansas
Mike Huckabee of Arkansas
Jim Gilmore of Virginia
Rudy Giuliani of New York
Duncan Hunter of California
Alan Keyes of Maryland
John McCain of Arizona
Mitt Romney of Massachusetts
Ron Paul of Texas
Tom Tancredo of Colorado
Fred Thompson of Tennessee
Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin

This year so far we have:
Michele Bachmann of Minnesota
Herman Cain of Georgia
Newt Gingrich of Georgia
Jon Huntsman of Utah
Gary Johnson of New Mexico
Ron Paul of Texas
Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota
Mitt Romney of Massachusetts
Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania

Some of them dropped out before the primaries, some after, and some garnered votes at the convention without doing much. But looking at the field, 2012 doesn’t seem more or less weak than most of the others.

I’d argue that 1964 to 1980 showed the rise of conservatives and after 1980 everyone largely ceded the field of ideas to conservatives. 30 years later, some Republicans wavering, but by and large the candidates still pay homage to Reagan. If anything, the GOP field right now is a reflect of our past successes and wins.

Of the candidates listed, I think the candidate who can tap into the spirit of one year I didn’t mention is the guy who will be the nominee — Reagan ‘76. He defied the party structure and wound up losing the nomination that year. But then the tea party movement didn’t exist back them. Whoever stands up as a credible outside voice of conservatism is going to go far. Conversely, those too tied to the “establishment”, whatever one might view it to be, will be hurt.

But don’t tell me it is a weak field. It’s a pretty typical field for the GOP.

redstate.com/erick/2011/05/23/its-a-weak-field-no-it-is-pretty-typical/

I would actually say unlike last election there there a number of candidates this election that are interesting.
 
Innocent lives being taken. Seems like the same thing to me
No. If that were the case than the USA’s response in WWII would be unjust since many innocents were killed.

Murder is intentional killing of an innocent person and is always immoral.

Not all killing is immoral.

Abortion is gravely immoral because it is the willfull, knowing and targeted taking of an innocent life.
 
I do not think this little poll is an accurate portrayal of voters. :rolleyes:
I didn’t say that it was, but it is interesting that on this very conservative forum there is so little enthusiasm for any of the candidates likely to be nominated.
This is not a weak GOP field. It is a typical GOP field:
You are assuming that there is a difference between the two, I am not so sure.
 
I didn’t say that it was, but it is interesting that on this very conservative forum there is so little enthusiasm for any of the candidates likely to be nominated.

You are assuming that there is a difference between the two, I am not so sure.
The primary season is not yet on us…give it some time.
 
There is such a thing as justified murder, but the actions of Bush does not justify the death of Iraqi’s and Americans.
Bush did not run in the last election nor is he running in 2012 Obama has continued Bush’s policies in Irag , Afghanisatn and even started his own personal war in Libya PLUS he enthusiastically supports abortion even to the extent of funding overseas abortions A Catholic could not have, in good conscience supported Obasma in 2008 nor could they support him in2012.

Of course we should also note that the Church did not forbid us to vote for someone who supported the Irarqi war. in fact they emphatically stated we could. The same can not be said about abortion. no issue or combination of issues trumps abortion.
 
Bush did not run in the last election nor is he running in 2012 Obama has continued Bush’s policies in Irag , Afghanisatn and even started his own personal war in Libya PLUS he enthusiastically supports abortion even to the extent of funding overseas abortions A Catholic could not have, in good conscience supported Obasma in 2008 nor could they support him in2012.

Of course we should also note that the Church did not forbid us to vote for someone who supported the Irarqi war. in fact they emphatically stated we could. The same can not be said about abortion. no issue or combination of issues trumps abortion.
Well said! 🙂
 
God’s word makes no sense?
  • The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight*. [Proverbs 9:10]
:doh2: biggest “duh” ever… I don’t know how they’ll try to reconcile such a statement with the whole “Catholic” thing but yeah

Just one of the perks of being a leftist and not having to hold to any consistent standard.
 
No. If that were the case than the USA’s response in WWII would be unjust since many innocents were killed.

Murder is intentional killing of an innocent person and is always immoral.

Not all killing is immoral.

Abortion is gravely immoral because it is the willfull, knowing and targeted taking of an innocent life.
The war against Hitler was a just war, but our tactics were not always moral. Civilians were specifically targeted as this quote by Fieldmarshall “Bomber” Harris makes clear:
The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany. It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.
quotiki.com/quotes/15386
 
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