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kimmielittle
Guest
I’m not Democrat - Republican - Libertarian
I’m a kid and can’t vote yet.
BUT I can see a track record -
Democrat -“pro-lifers” - are stymied by their own party members. That’s the simple truth.
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I’m a kid and can’t vote yet.
BUT I can see a track record -
Democrat -“pro-lifers” - are stymied by their own party members. That’s the simple truth.
K
kimmielittle
Guest
Albeit, I agree with Mr Wills…on what will happen.
I, firmly, believe this is the crucible of truth
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/26/AR2007102601864.html
Especially, now, as opposed to 2007, when Mr. wills wrote it.
In 2007 our conscious clauses where fairly well protected.
We weren’t internationally - domestically openly funding abortionists.
We didn’t have laws stating we should kill babies who somehow survived an abortion.
We didn’t have evidence suggesting fetal pain
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Those Catholic Republican posters who are so certain that if we Democrats were to renounce our party and vote GOP abortion would be gone ought to read Mr. Will’s column.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Those Democrats that think The Democratic party, is pro-life, should read Mr Will’s article.
Abortions may not be abolished - BUT the Federal level into the abortion industry will, at least, meet with resistance - Something… the Democratic Party has failed, or wanted, to do.
If you want me to cheer the Democratic Party - offer me something to cheer about!
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Rence
Guest
Not to mention the fact that all voters have the right to vote on their own, without others trying to take away their vote for their own political views. We each have our own political views…and like it or not, that’s how we will vote. You can try to guilt people here and guilt people there about this or about that, but everyone has social issues that they want addressed, and that may or may not affect them personally, and that’s how they’ll vote.
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kimmielittle
Guest
I would vote my conscience.
My conscience tells me that a society expressing social justice and fails to protect the most innocent of lives… first and foremost - fails social justice - completely.
I’ll put the question out again:
As a Catholic, can anyone point to something within this administration that I could be proud of?
Mr Osama is gone - but that would have been a matter of time, IMO, anyway.
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Rence
Guest
You must vote with your conscience. It’s what we’re all called to do
I would vote my conscience.
My conscience tells me that a society expressing social justice and fails to protect the most innocent of lives first and foremost - fails social justice - completely.
No, there is nothing I can say about this administration that you would be proud of. But everyone is different
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kimmielittle
Guest
You must vote with your conscience. It’s what we’re all called to do
No, there is nothing I can say about this administration that you would be proud of. But everyone is different
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Well said.IMO Many people think this way, mistakenly.
Under the Democrats - We USA ] has now become the worlds largest single source funder of international abortionists. We fund them here domestically - We fund them through the UN Mexico Treaty etc. ].
Abortion isn’t a “single issue” anymore.
It is a right to life issue
It is a Constitutional issue Equal protection ]
It is an economic issue Tax payer funding - domestically and Internationally ]
It is a moral issue
It is a personal freedom issue Conscious clause ]
It is a Religious freedom issue.
It might have been viewed, at one time, as a “single issue” - but those days are long gone,.as the “Game Plan” instigated decades ago, by abortionists, now sees the light of day.
IMO NO Catholic can stand and try to call abortion a “single issue”.
It would take ignorance compounded with self imposed blinders,
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mary_bobo
Guest
I don’t say that all Catholics have to vote Republican. I do say that the reasons that most liberals come up with for not voting Republican seem to me to put party before religion. But it is not my place to judge. God will do that when the time comes.
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pnewton
Guest
Or, if you are going to and judge more harshly than the Church, let us blame those who vote for Republilcans who over the long run have maintained the status quo of Roe v. Wade. It makes about as much logic. I am sick and tired of Republicans who blame their losses on third party voters. When I vote for a third party, it is because I think it is time that America moves past the Republican and Democratic parties. I refuse to support the political oligarchy any longer.
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pismopal
Guest
As a conservative I still need someone to represent me even though there is no party with that name…thanks:shrug:
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gilliam
Guest
Libertarians tend to be liberals who don’t want to pay taxes.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Thank you
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addictedkoala
Guest
These threads slightly disturb me from the things Catholics seem to believe about their faith. Democratic Catholics spend a lot of time justifying what cannot be justified in most situations. The economic differences between a normal republican and democrat are not significant enough to overrule the importance of abortion. On the other hand are actual and borderline libertarian Catholics who distort subsidiarity and try to justify their position in a somewhat reactionary way to liberal politicians who are at odds with the Church socially but economically are not out of line. Catholics who say that “the Church can’t tell me how to vote” are compartmentalizing their faith and have a limited understanding of the correct relationship they should hold with the Church. We need to be guided by our faith, tradition, and our bishops in all aspects of our lives.
Personally, I’m always going to vote pro-life (democrat before republican if that situation arises, even though I lean conservative) so long as no radically off the mark politician stands a serious chance of winning. Ron Paul’s libertarianism, for example, is outside legitimate Catholic social teaching particularly as expressed in Rerum Novarum, and if he gets the nomination I will be doing some serious thought. It is not necessarily about whether or not Ron Paul is correct economically but that he is outside Catholic Social teaching whereas Obama actually is within his rights even though he supports the horrible institution of abortion. Abortion is a huge reason not to vote for Obama, however, and I would probably end up voting for a libertarian along the strain of Paul over him. Anyone who votes for either of those two when other, better choices are available must have a seriously good reason to do so.
The other Republicans that stand any real chance at winning are socially on target and economically inside the conservative-liberal bounds the Church allows us and so I would hope they are the clear choice at this point in time for faithful Catholics. My prayer is that the D&R parties will both someday be pro-life so we can all work on building an economically just society and having more discussions where both parties are absolutely within Catholic teaching.
Personally, I’m always going to vote pro-life (democrat before republican if that situation arises, even though I lean conservative) so long as no radically off the mark politician stands a serious chance of winning. Ron Paul’s libertarianism, for example, is outside legitimate Catholic social teaching particularly as expressed in Rerum Novarum, and if he gets the nomination I will be doing some serious thought. It is not necessarily about whether or not Ron Paul is correct economically but that he is outside Catholic Social teaching whereas Obama actually is within his rights even though he supports the horrible institution of abortion. Abortion is a huge reason not to vote for Obama, however, and I would probably end up voting for a libertarian along the strain of Paul over him. Anyone who votes for either of those two when other, better choices are available must have a seriously good reason to do so.
The other Republicans that stand any real chance at winning are socially on target and economically inside the conservative-liberal bounds the Church allows us and so I would hope they are the clear choice at this point in time for faithful Catholics. My prayer is that the D&R parties will both someday be pro-life so we can all work on building an economically just society and having more discussions where both parties are absolutely within Catholic teaching.
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jediliz
Guest
Well said, Kimmie!IMO Many people think this way, mistakenly.
Under the Democrats - We USA ] has now become the worlds largest single source funder of international abortionists. We fund them here domestically - We fund them through the UN Mexico Treaty etc. ].
Abortion isn’t a “single issue” anymore.
It is a right to life issue
It is a Constitutional issue Equal protection ]
It is an economic issue Tax payer funding - domestically and Internationally ]
It is a moral issue
It is a personal freedom issue Conscious clause ]
It is a Religious freedom issue.
It might have been viewed, at one time, as a “single issue” - but those days are long gone,.as the “Game Plan” instigated decades ago, by abortionists, now sees the light of day.
IMO NO Catholic can stand and try to call abortion a “single issue”.
It would take ignorance compounded with self imposed blinders,
We need protection for the most vulnerable: preborn babies, the elderly and the disabled. They are the ones that are targeted with certain types of “Health care”
We DO need to help the poor, but we can’t let them become OVERLY dependent on government programs. How about helping them get better jobs so they can get off welfare and become self sufficient? Helping them get better job skills will also help them get better paying jobs enabling them to earn more $ and then they have to rely less on government programs.
The democratic party does not want to give any protections to preborn babies or they wouldn’t vote against defunding the LARGEST PROVIDER OF ABORTIONS! They also would be horrified about the procedures done on these babies.
There may be a few pro life democrats, but they are few. And NONE of them would have a chance to get the nomination let alone get elected!
I am still confused why so many would vote for Barack Obama AGAIN
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pnewton
Guest
You surely should vote your opinion, but I have read that Rerum Novarum back when the Pope issued Caritas in Veritate, and I didn’t get what you get. Nothing in these documents require the level of* federal* government that we current have, or suggest that we need such extensive regulation of the common good, which can be promoted better with less regulation.
Well, I guess we will each vote our opinions in areas that there is not a moral absolute.
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addictedkoala
Guest
I’ll admit it’s quite possible that I don’t have a full enough understanding of Ron Paul’s positions. I was speaking more of the idea that the majority of governmental operations are illegitimate at any level, and when legitimate government charity like welfare is opposed as socialist. (That’s not to say that reform of some of these programs isn’t needed of course) If Ron Paul is OK with these functions of government at least at the state level then I apologize for not knowing my facts as that would make me more comfortable with him, even if I have other opinions.
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kimmielittle
Guest
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ishii
Guest
Which would have likely been the deciding vote to overturn Roe V Wade. But I guess his “rigid judicial philosophy” and its threat to liberalism was more of a concern to liberal Democrat catholics than putting the issue of abortion back to the states - and saving the lives on many unborn in the process.
I believe we are obligated to ***effectively ***oppose the culture of death. Voting for fringe candidates who have no chance to win and no chance to have a positive effect on the abortion laws in this country may make the true believers feel happy and content but in the end, their votes are ineffective. And abortion on demand remains the law of the land. But the true believers are not the main reason that abortion remains the law of the land. That blame lies squarely on the Democrat catholics who vote party first and morality second.
Ishii
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