Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

[Rence]

A pro-life president with a pro-life congress could do a lot to stem the culture of death.

To start with the federal funding of Planned Parenthood would stop

The federal funding of places which provide abortions could stop

The federal funding of stem cell research from aborted babies could stop

The federal funding of schools that teach abortion is a reasonable alternative could stop

and we could go on and on

Without going into what a particular president did or didn’t do, the idea that to elect a pro-life president would be useless is simply not correct.

It wouldn’t be completely useless, but it wouldn’t be enough to make the issue as important as others when people cast their vote. And it some ways it would make matters worse. Many women can come up with the cash for an abortion, by themselves, by a parent, by the ‘sperm-donor’, by the ‘sperm-donor’s’ parents, etc. and federal funds aren’t supposed to fund abortions anyway. Most are against cessation of federal funding of places which provide abortions because that would include all secular hospitals, clinics, doctor’s offices etc. PP and abortion clinics aren’t the only places that would be affected by such legislation. No one wants that mess, or I should say, the majority (obviously) doesn’t want that mess.

 

[rayodeluz]

I can’t vote in the poll (guess I’m too new), so I’ll post here. I’m not from a battleground state, so I’ll probably vote independent (other). Being that we know an independent or third party candidate cannot win the presidency at this point and it will be between Obama and the republican candidate, if I were in a battleground state then I’d vote for Obama. I’m disappointed in some of the things he’s done and don’t agree with him on everything, but the republican party has changed over the past 20 - 30 years into something that scares me. I can’t in good conscious vote republican.

 

[addictedkoala]

I can’t vote in the poll (guess I’m too new), so I’ll post here. I’m not from a battleground state, so I’ll probably vote independent (other). Being that we know an independent or third party candidate cannot win the presidency at this point and it will be between Obama and the republican candidate, if I were in a battleground state then I’d vote for Obama. I’m disappointed in some of the things he’s done and don’t agree with him on everything, but the republican party has changed over the past 20 - 30 years into something that scares me. I can’t in good conscious vote republican.

For my own curiosity, this is not a polemical question but sort of a religious one, what about the the Republican party at this point in time is bad enough to warrant supporting a pro-choice politician? Supporting someone with Obama’s social views means justifying the other choice being much worse under Catholic thought (presuming you are Catholic). If you are willing I’m quite interested as Republicans seemingly are not outside feasible economic social teaching of the Church.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I’m proud that the administration took on health care reform, and all though Republicans turned out to be quite a huge hurdle, we were able to get something passed.

Can’t be denied base on pre-existing conditions now. Also, allowing children to remain covered by their parents’ insurance until the age of 26

I’m happy about the unemployment benefits being extended. Although they did not cause this economic recession, the middle and lower classes are the ones being punished for it.

I’m happy that Obama has fought the Tea Party in their unholy war on the poor and needy.

Signed the Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids – 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Signed New START (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty)

I’m hopeful about the DREAM Act Legislation.

Met with the Pope!

Fought the Tea Party for an unholy… oh my heck… where to begin? You are ignorant. Plain and simple. We are fighting to truly protect the poor and needy from government intrusion which has never led anyone to prosperity or a better life. The Great Society failed, the war on poverty has failed.

Your children can now be encouraged to be lazy and not find work because they will have mommy and daddy’s insurance until they are fully grown adults.

I’m glad you like ceding sovereignty to Russia.

I’m glad you think that ILLEGAL aliens should be entitled to the benefits of citizenship. Thanks for spitting in the face of us legal immigrants who did it the right way.

I’m glad you apparently think Catholicism and abortion are compatible.

Now as for the poll… I’m split between Cain, Gingrich and Bachmann. Anyone but Obama and Ron Paul.

 

[mary_bobo]

Oh, where to begin.

I’m proud that the administration took on health care reform, and all though Republicans turned out to be quite a huge hurdle, we were able to get something passed. And are you proud of the fact that this was done despite what the majority of citizens were opposed to it? Are you proud of the fact that the “friends” of the administration are allowed to opt out? Are you proud of the little “goodies” that were hidden in the bill? Are you proud of the fact that the president had no part in this, and turned the whole project over to Nancy Pilosi who never asked for GOP (name removed by moderator)ut?

Can’t be denied base on pre-existing conditions now. Also, allowing children to remain covered by their parents’ insurance until the age of 26 And what about those children whose parents have no insurance? Are we, the taxpayers, to be responsible for them also–with no money in the coffers for such?

I’m happy about the unemployment benefits being extended. Although they did not cause this economic recession, the middle and lower classes are the ones being punished for it. There were and are plenty of upper management people who lost their jobs also and our president, who campaigned on fixing this, has done absolutely nothing to encourage private sector jobs. In fact, he has done exactly the opposite.

I’m happy that Obama has fought the Tea Party in their unholy war on the poor and needy.
You obviously know little about the Tea Party other than what you have heard and read in the MSM. Their primary and stated purpose is to get our fiscal house in order. They do not like the big spending going on in DC, which we cannot afford.

Signed the Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids – 4 million of whom were previously uninsured Theswe children have parents who should be required to do something to earn this freebie. That is certainly not unfair.

Signed New START (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty)

I’m hopeful about the DREAM Act Legislation. I did not look at your bio, are you a Catholic?

Met with the Pope!

Nice, but certainly not unusual for a US president. He still has not changed his opinion of abortion, and other non-negotiables for Catholics.

 

[Veritas_Vincit]

Oh, where to begin.

Nice, but certainly not unusual for a US president. He still has not changed his opinion of abortion, and other non-negotiables for Catholics.

You are wrong on just about every issue you countered on. I believe our nation is being intentionally dummied down on a regular basis… Your post shows just how underinformed the general voting public is. It’s taking too much energy to even read the threads these days. God bless you all. Here’s hoping the Holy Spirit can enlilghten us all with the gift of wisdom.

 

[estesbob]

You are wrong on just about every issue you countered on. I believe our nation is being intentionally dummied down on a regular basis… Your post shows just how underinformed the general voting public is. It’s taking too much energy to even read the threads these days. God bless you all. Here’s hoping the Holy Spirit can enlilghten us all with the gift of wisdom.

Doesnt take a lot of wisdom to know you won’t end abortion by empowering people who hVe vowed to keep it legal.

 

[ishii]

The number of Abortions per year decreased under President Clinton and since then has been running fairly steady. There is no drastic difference in the number of Abortions based on whether a Democrat or Republican is in the White House:

nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html

I would suggest reading up on some history. Are you aware of a supreme court decision called Roe V Wade that prevents states from passing laws that curtail abortion? Until that decision is overturned the number of abortions will not change drastically unless individual hearts are changed. Are you also aware that presidents Clinton and Obama have given us four rock solid pro-Roe V Wade supreme court justices? Furthermore, it was Democrat catholics in the senate in 1990 who conspired to derail the nomination of Bush 1 nominee Robert Bork - whose approval probably would’ve meant the overturn of Roe V Wade?

Ishii

 

[MillTownCath]

For my own curiosity, this is not a polemical question but sort of a religious one, what about the the Republican party at this point in time is bad enough to warrant supporting a pro-choice politician? Supporting someone with Obama’s social views means justifying the other choice being much worse under Catholic thought (presuming you are Catholic). If you are willing I’m quite interested as Republicans seemingly are not outside feasible economic social teaching of the Church.

The difference between a pro-life candidate and a pro-choice candidate is who votes for them. After that, nothing changes.

 

[MillTownCath]

Your children can now be encouraged to be lazy and not find work because they will have mommy and daddy’s insurance until they are fully grown adults.

Not find work because they have health insurance??

Even if you did find work, chances are you may not get health insurance anyways.

If parents want to have their son or daughter stay on their health insurance program, that’s their decision, not yours.

The only Catholic thing about the Republican party is their stance on abortion.
And sadly, abortion is a campaign issue only.

 

[estesbob]

The difference between a pro-life candidate and a pro-choice candidate is who votes for them. After that, nothing changes.

Simply not true, as anyone who seriously follows the issue knows. Hoevever even if it were true it would not justify Catholics supporting pro-abortion elected officials

 

[ishii]

Read the signature line that EstesBob had been putting on his posts. “Abortion will remain legal in this country until Catholic Democrats come to love the unborn more than they hate the GOP.” The implication, as I understand it, is that a vote for the “party of life” is the first step towards the abolition of abortion.

If I misunderstood what Bob meant, then I’m certain he’ll make it clear.

He’s right, but who knows how long it will take. If you go back to 1990 you will find that it was catholic senators who derailed the nomination of Bork - who would likely have been the fifth vote to overturn Roe V Wade - thus alllowing states to outlaw most abortions if they wanted (and many states want to do just that). Imagine in a post-Roe V Wade world where that state rep or senator’s abortion views suddenly come into play. Maybe there would be more pro-life Democrats in that scenario because they wouldn’t have sold out to the abortion lobby yet?

A vote for the most pro-life candidate who has a chance of winning is the first step towards the abolition of most legal abortions. Given that it depends a great deal on the supreme court, it could take years. And voting for pro-abortion rights politicians will set back the overthrowing of Roe V Wade years.

I get frustrated by the statements of certain posters who misconstrue or caricature the points I make. Saying things such as “the Catholic church does not require that we vote GOP” “voting for the GOP will not end all abortions” are true but also a complete misrepresentation of what I’ve been saying all along - I never said those things.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

The only Catholic thing about the Republican party is their stance on abortion.
And sadly, abortion is a campaign issue only.

What part of the Republican party platform is inconsistent with Catholic moral teaching? Give examples, please.

Ishii

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Not find work because they have health insurance??

Even if you did find work, chances are you may not get health insurance anyways.

If parents want to have their son or daughter stay on their health insurance program, that’s their decision, not yours.

The only Catholic thing about the Republican party is their stance on abortion.
And sadly, abortion is a campaign issue only.

Senator Ted Kennedy led the fight, successfully, to prevent the worker from owning his or her own medical insurance policy. HSAs are SEVERELY restricted because of him … he did it personally. [HSA + catastrophic + high risk pool + full tax deductions + full tax credits … all forbidden by the Feds and some states.]

Abortion for Republicans is a REAL issue, not a campaignissueonly:

PRO-LIFE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION

1. Appointed Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. The appointments resulted in the upholding of the federal partial-birth abortion ban by a 5-4 decision.
2. Reinstituted the Mexico City Policy, begun by the Reagan Administration and reversed by the Clinton Administration (when Congress tried to reinstitute the policy, Clinton vetoed the bill), that bars foreign aid funding to groups that perform or advocate for abortions. In 2003, the Bush Administration expanded the Mexico City Policy to include not just funds dispensed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), but also the State Department.
3. Discouraged advancement of pro-abortion legislation by announcing early in his administration that he would veto legislation that threatened pro-life policy.
4. Signed the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act, which made it a federal crime not to treat babies who survive abortion.
5. Signed the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban of 2003.
6. Signed Unborn Victims of Violence Act, recognizing the unborn child as a separate crime victim if injured or killed during an assault.
7. Cut off all federal funds to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) for its involvement in China’s one-child policy which includes forced abortion and sterilization. President Bush sent a fact-finding mission to China which found that the nation’s one-child policy was indeed coercive in nature and that the UNFPA was an integral part of implementing that policy, placing the UNFPA in clear violation of the Kemp-Kasten Amendment that prohibits any aid to any program that involves forced abortion or forced sterilization. Tens of millions of dollars that otherwise would have gone to the UNFPA were redirected to maternal and child health programs.
8. Thwarted efforts at the United Nations to promote abortion by instructing U.S. delegates to state at every appropriate opportunity that America does not regard anything in any document before the U.N. to establish any international right to abortion.
9. Issued Executive Order banning the use of new lines of embryonic stem cells in federally funded experiments. Later vetoed legislation passed by Congress to permit federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.
10. Signed the Stem Cell Therapeutic and Research Act of 2005, which will fund research using umbilical cord and adult stem cells. The measure provides funding to increase the inventory of cord blood units available to match and treat patients and to link cord blood banks so that doctors have a single source to search for cord blood and bone marrow matches. It also reauthorizes the National Bone Marrow Registry.
11. Launched public awareness of adoption campaign, working with the National Council for Adoption and pregnancy help centers across the country. The campaign sponsored conferences encouraging faith based communities to promote adoption and produced public service announcements featuring the First Lady urging the adoption of foster children.
12. Established the first federal government and national website listing and showing children available for adoption across the country (www.AdoptUSKids.org).
13. Increased the tax credit for adoption related expenses from $5,000 to $10,000; for special needs children, the credit was raised from $5,000 for qualified adoption related expenses to $10,000 for any adoption related expenses. This was done as part of the President’s tax relief bill.
14. Annually declared Sanctity of Human Life Day.
15. Issued a federal regulation allowing states to include unborn children in the federal/state S-CHIP program, which provides health insurance for children in poor families. This allowed states to include pre-natal care in the health insurance they offer to poor children under the program.
16. The Bush Administration did what it could to stop assisted suicide from taking further hold in Oregon. The state of Oregon passed an assisted suicide law that allows doctors to prescribe federally controlled drugs in lethal amounts to certain of their patients who say they want to die. Federal law holds that federally controlled drugs may only be prescribed for legitimate medical purposes. During the Clinton Administration, Attorney General Janet Reno decreed that assisted suicide was a legitimate medical purpose in those states that permit it.

During the Bush Administration, Attorney General John Ashcroft changed that ruling, saying that assisted suicide was not a legitimate medical purpose, thereby barring doctors from prescribing lethal drugs. A lawsuit was filed and ultimately, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of allowing the drugs to be used for assisted suicide.

1. Signed legislation making it possible for a federal court to hear whether Terri Schiavo’s constitutional rights had been violated by being denied hydration and nutrition.
2. Dramatically increased funding for abstinence education through the Department of Health and Human Services, although Congress did not approve the full amount the Bush Administration requested.

 

[mary_bobo]

The difference between a pro-life candidate and a pro-choice candidate is who votes for them. After that, nothing changes.

I respectfully refer you to post #822.

 

[mary_bobo]

You are wrong on just about every issue you countered on. I believe our nation is being intentionally dummied down on a regular basis… Your post shows just how underinformed the general voting public is. It’s taking too much energy to even read the threads these days. God bless you all. Here’s hoping the Holy Spirit can enlilghten us all with the gift of wisdom.

Refute with specifics. Generalizations don’t accomplish a thing. And I agree that our nation is being dummed down. Look at our education system, as an example. It falls behind many countries and it should not.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Is Obama pro-choice? If so why would a Catholic vote for him…

Because the Repubs. are even more twisted?

Well, as it stands now. I don’t think I’ll be voting for a presidential candidate

ATB

 

[pnewton]

So Teddy Kennedy, Joe Biden and other liberal catholic democrats derailing the Bork nomination is “maintaining the status quo of Roe V Wade?” I am sick and tired of people posting about this issue who have no clue about the political history of the past twenty-five years.

Ishii

That is neither logical or mature, insulting people who do not agree with you. If you are truly sick and tired, then quit posting. I happen to know the history of the Republican Party and what has happened, what and how they have failed to curtail abortion, in office or out. The political establishment perpetuates this two party mentality to maintain their own power. This country has operated with more than two parties in the past. It need not be a given.

 

[estesbob]

That is neither logical or mature, insulting people who do not agree with you. If you are truly sick and tired, then quit posting. I happen to know the history of the Republican Party and what has happened, what and how they have failed to curtail abortion, in office or out. The political establishment perpetuates this two party mentality to maintain their own power. This country has operated with more than two parties in the past. It need not be a given.

Again thoroughly refuted as recent as post 822. And again even if true does allow a Catholic to support a pro-abortion politician. It has been my experience that those who claim to be pro-.life but vote for non viable third party candidates are in reality Democrats looking to insure the defeat of pro-life candidates. Those truly committed to the cause of life know we can not sacrifice the unborn with counterproductive votes.

 

[pnewton]

Again thoroughly refuted as recent as post 822. And again even if true does allow a Catholic to support a pro-abortion politician. It has been my experience that those who claim to be pro-.life but vote for non viable third party candidates are in reality Democrats looking to insure the defeat of pro-life candidates. Those truly committed to the cause of life know we can not sacrifice the unborn with counterproductive votes.

More insults and assumptions? Perhaps you have a different concept of logic than I. Fortunately, the Church does forbid us voting our conscience, even if it is a third party candidate. I would rather listen to the Church that Catholic posters that say I am ignorant of history or not truly commited to the end of abortion.

FYI - If any of you ever try and evangelize, might I recommend that you try a different tactic. You will seldom convince anyone with insulting rhetoric.