Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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irishpatrick said:
Perhaps YOU should ask why you want the unborn to continue being legally killed (if you do)?

Clever arguments only show that you appear to be quite cold to those being killed.
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It is all part of the mental gymanstics requiredof those who claim to be pro-life but support abortion with their votes.
 
irishpatrick said:
Perhaps YOU should ask why you want the unborn to continue being legally killed (if you do)?

Clever arguments only show that you appear to be quite cold to those being killed.
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Reverting to insults is not helpful. My point is that it is not only not a "clever argument’ to put words on the Holy Father’s mouth that he never spoke - it is flat out wrong to do so.
 
TMC said:
Reverting to insults is not helpful. My point is that it is not only not a "clever argument’ to put words on the Holy Father’s mouth that he never spoke - it is flat out wrong to do so.
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Years ago, putting words into someone’s mouth for political advantage was called the Big Lie technique.
 
estesbob said:
You can lead a horse to water but you cany make them drink…

The Popes statement is crystal clear -except for those Catholics trying to rationalize supprting pro-abortion cnaoidates.
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“Specifically stated” has a very straight forward meaning, and it is not that he once said something in another context that supports the argument I am making now. The Pope has not “specifically stated” what you say he has, and we both know that.
 
antonivs said:
Save your insults. My conscience is clean. And it is more nuanced than that according the the U.S. Bishops. Have you read the document yet? It is only two pages.

faithfulcitizenship.org/docs/insert_2p_color_english.pdf
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From the document:* As Catholics, we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promoting of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.*

Which is not to say that a Catholic must vote against that person, but it certainly seems to me that I have heard a lot more about not being single-issue voters than I have about legitimately not voting for advocates of intrinsic evils solely on that point.
 
TMC said:
Reverting to insults is not helpful. My point is that it is not only not a "clever argument’ to put words on the Holy Father’s mouth that he never spoke - it is flat out wrong to do so.
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I am not insulting…just trying to challenge all these (sinful imo) insane justifying arguments.
 
TMC said:
“Specifically stated” has a very straight forward meaning, and it is not that he once said something in another context that supports the argument I am making now. The Pope has not “specifically stated” what you say he has, and we both know that.
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I am not going to do the research about the Pope–but your attitude really frustrates me. Do you want abortion to continue–yes or no?
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Years ago, putting words into someone’s mouth for political advantage was called the Big Lie technique.
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Yes, and twisting Church teachings to justify a vote is called immoral.

Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. {2 Tim 2:23-25a RSV}
 
TMC said:
“Specifically stated” has a very straight forward meaning, and it is not that he once said something in another context that supports the argument I am making now. The Pope has not “specifically stated” what you say he has, and we both know that.
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Just what about "*There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.’ do you not find clear? *
 
estesbob said:
You can lead a horse to water but you cany make them drink…

The Popes statement is crystal clear -except for those Catholics trying to rationalize supprting pro-abortion cnaoidates.
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A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

What a fool believes, he sees. And no wise man has the power to reason it away.
 
estesbob said:
Just what about "*There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.’ do you not find clear? *
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I find it clear that the Pope has never said that no Catholic voter can ever vote for a pro-choice candidate. You said the Pope “specifically said” that neither the Iraq War nor the death penalty would ever justify voting for a pro-choice poltician, and it he clearly did not say anything like that. It is clear that the Church teaches that Catholics can have different opinions on some topics, but not different opinions on abortion. That is what the Pope said, and I have not disputed that. But that is a far cry from what you said the Pope “specifically stated”.

The Pope has never said that Catholics must be, or even should be, single issue voters. In fact, the Church has said that Catholics are not to be single issue voters, they are to look at the whole range of issues. To repeatedly say that the Pope has said something he has not, or that the Church teaches something it does not, is simply wrong.
 
I call foul play on this poll, Obama is winning? Can’t trust those dems… 🙂
 
Link0126 said:
I call foul play on this poll, Obama is winning? Can’t trust those dems… 🙂
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I’d hardly call 74% to 26% winning. He is the personally likable, articulate sitting President of the US and he is only garnering 26% of the poll. I wonder what would happen if there were other Democrats who were included, like maybe Mark Warner of Virginia, or Bill Nelson of Florida, or Susan Collins of Maine.
 
TMC said:
I find it clear that the Pope has never said that no Catholic voter can ever vote for a pro-choice candidate. You said the Pope “specifically said” that neither the Iraq War nor the death penalty would ever justify voting for a pro-choice poltician, and it he clearly did not say anything like that. It is clear that the Church teaches that Catholics can have different opinions on some topics, but not different opinions on abortion. That is what the Pope said, and I have not disputed that. But that is a far cry from what you said the Pope “specifically stated”.

The Pope has never said that Catholics must be, or even should be, single issue voters. In fact, the Church has said that Catholics are not to be single issue voters, they are to look at the whole range of issues. To repeatedly say that the Pope has said something he has not, or that the Church teaches something it does not, is simply wrong.
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Wrong–show us the absolute precise quote/reference from a formal Church proclamation stating that Catholics are NOT to be single issue voters. Show us that, or retract your statements above because if you refuse to retract, you will then be guilty of the exact form of extrapolation for which you condemn other people.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I can’t lead you by the hand to everything. Sometimes, one simply has to do his or her own thinking and draw one’s own conclusions. 🤷
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Should be very easy-you claimed someone was promoting the big lie. I assumed you were accusing the Pope. At any rate why cant you tell us what the big lie is and who is promoting it. or was it just another throw away comment designed to change the subject?
 
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