Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

[Cathryn]

It would not make me happy to have every parish have to have a TLM. I think it would be very poorly done, in many cases. It would also create animosity from some.

I would love to see it happen because priest feel called to learn it and do it. That seems to be what is happening around me.

I was thrilled when my NO pastor decided to add an extra Sunday Mass and do the TLM. Now the NO pastor in the next town over asked my pastor to train him to say the TLM. This priest responded to one parishoner who wrote him a letter asking for it. He will be doing it every Monday morning soon.

 

[Margarite]

Another thing to think about is that in some places like Colorado, and Nevada, there are priests who are in charge of 3 parishes each 2-3 hours away from eachother. It would not be practical or fair for this priest to be forced to say a TLM unless the people at one parish agreed that one of their two masses be said in Latin.
I mean my family almost moved to Crested Butte, CO, and the priest has three parishes all a couple hours away from eachother. He only says one mass in Crested Butte and two in each of the other places, one of those masses is said in the town that he lives in and he says that mass on Saturday nights.

So, that would be unfair for the bishops to force the people to attend the extraordinary form of the mass, with no ordinary form available.

In Vegas where there are 24 parishes all within half an hour drive of eachother, it would only be necessary for a few parishes to have a TLM. Right now there is one parish with one mass that is said half in Latin and the other half in English. Every Sunday there are about 50 people. When you take into account the fact that some churches in the diocese have up to 10,000 families, 50 people is nothing. So it only warrents one mass. The priest is actually teaching the congregation Latin as he goes along, so eventually there will be a TLM, but he wants to make sure that everyone knows the Latin first. We are so excited because on Easter we are starting the Credo in Latin!

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite

 

[HelenRose]

Questions like this are the reason why the Church allows for a great deal of local control. Why have a priest who is already saying five Masses every weekend and a sixth if there is not interest in the TLM? Any rule across the board would be ridiculous. What about small parishes with an itenirate priest who only does one or two Masses a week? Should they have to add an extra burden for the sake of traditionlists in other parts of the country who will never know they exist?

This is a good answer because that is the situation my little mission Church is in. Our priest has an enormous responsibility keeping our parish Church and our mission Church going. To mandate an order like this would be impossible.

 

[elt1956]

Another thing to think about is that in some places like Colorado, and Nevada, there are priests who are in charge of 3 parishes each 2-3 hours away from eachother. It would not be practical or fair for this priest to be forced to say a TLM unless the people at one parish agreed that one of their two masses be said in Latin.
I mean my family almost moved to Crested Butte, CO, and the priest has three parishes all a couple hours away from eachother. He only says one mass in Crested Butte and two in each of the other places, one of those masses is said in the town that he lives in and he says that mass on Saturday nights.

So, that would be unfair for the bishops to force the people to attend the extraordinary form of the mass, with no ordinary form available.

In Vegas where there are 24 parishes all within half an hour drive of eachother, it would only be necessary for a few parishes to have a TLM. Right now there is one parish with one mass that is said half in Latin and the other half in English. Every Sunday there are about 50 people. When you take into account the fact that some churches in the diocese have up to 10,000 families, 50 people is nothing. So it only warrents one mass. The priest is actually teaching the congregation Latin as he goes along, so eventually there will be a TLM, but he wants to make sure that everyone knows the Latin first. We are so excited because on Easter we are starting the Credo in Latin!

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite

I may be wrong, its happened before , but I can’t see the Chruch “forcing” anyone to attend either a NO or Latin Mass. Both are Masses. For them to take away the NO, to me, would be an admission the Church was originally wrong in instituting it, which it wasn’t as far as I am concerned. The Chruch will never admit to being wrong one way or the other on anything. Peace.

 

[CradleCath]

Eilish Maura;3439747]Yes - we need to trust the Holy Spirit.

We don’t need the TLM in ever parish whether one thinks it is beautiful or not.

Why not?? We could have a Novus Ordo vigil Mass, a TLM. at 8AM on Sundays & two more Novus Ordo Masses at say…10AM & noon. That would be a rationof 3 to 1, sounds fair to me. That actually seems to be what Pope Benedict has in mind.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Why not?? We could have a Novus Ordo vigil Mass, a TLM. at 8AM on Sundays & two more Novus Ordo Masses at say…10AM & noon. That would be a rationof 3 to 1, sounds fair to me. That actually seems to be what Pope Benedict has in mind.

Yes, I’m in complete agreement here. People talk about not “forcing” the TLM on anyone as if our poor Catholics today need to be insulated from 1,600 plus years of tradition. I mean, what’s next? Altar rails? Kneeling? Beautiful churches? Heaven forfend!

 

[elt1956]

When you say “once a week”, are you saying that the “once” must be on a Sunday? If so, what is your reasoning?

Thank you,

Fr. T

Yes, either Sat. eve., or one on Sunday. Do I have to have a reason??? Peace.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Why not?? We could have a Novus Ordo vigil Mass, a TLM. at 8AM on Sundays & two more Novus Ordo Masses at say…10AM & noon. That would be a rationof 3 to 1, sounds fair to me. That actually seems to be what Pope Benedict has in mind.

The MP did not state anything about being ‘fair’ and nothing in it suggests the kind of scheme you suggest.

 

[lampstand]

When you say “once a week”, are you saying that the “once” must be on a Sunday? If so, what is your reasoning?

Fr. T

I did not say that. Nor do I know why you read that into it.

My “reasoning” was that they could have one for people who were interested in it. If they went back to all Latin all the time at every Mass, some people might not be ready for that.

 

[lampstand]

One in every parish is not needed for that NOR did the MP speak of promoting attendance of the TLM.

So are we going to promote not attending it, then?

How do you promote something without promoting going to it, exactly?

I’m not sure how you extrapolated that from my post.



Do you want the TLM to be the right of every priest to say, but not have very many priests saying it? With only scattered parishes holding the TLM right now, because I don’t live anywhere near the closest parishes that are doing so–one’s an hour away from me, another’s almost two hours-- you have to drive an hour or two each way to get to a place where you can actually see the thing. No one seems to care that plenty of people are going to be deprived of taking part in the TLM if it’s still geographically scarce even after it’s ‘returned’ to approval. That would make the MP pointless.

Who are you to decide what’s “not needed”? Why do we have the MP if it’s “not needed”?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

So are we going to promote not attending it, then?

How do you promote something without promoting going to it, exactly?

I’m not sure how you extrapolated that from my post.



Do you want the TLM to be the right of every priest to say, but not have very many priests saying it? With only scattered parishes holding the TLM right now, because I don’t live anywhere near the closest parishes that are doing so–one’s an hour away from me, another’s almost two hours-- you have to drive an hour or two each way to get to a place where you can actually see the thing. No one seems to care that plenty of people are going to be deprived of taking part in the TLM if it’s still geographically scarce even after it’s ‘returned’ to approval. That would make the MP pointless.

Who are you to decide what’s “not needed”? Why do we have the MP if it’s “not needed”?

The MP states a specific group in mind (like it or not) and not promoting it. Any priest can say it as a private mass - so no issues there.

Deprived? Well it is the EF - not the OF.

Far more are deprived of any mass in many places in the world.

 

[CradleCath]

The MP did not state anything about being ‘fair’ and nothing in it suggests the kind of scheme you suggest.

Is there something in the Motu Proprio that negates the “scheme” I suggested???

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Is there something in the Motu Proprio that negates the “scheme” I suggested???

Your scheme focuses on having a TLM in place for meeting Sunday obligation then stated that it was " actually seems to be what Pope Benedict has in mind ".

IF it was actually what B16 had in mind he would have structured the MP to ensure that.

Can it be done according to your scheme - sure, anything is possible but it is not being implied nor required.

 

[CradleCath]

Yes - we need to trust the Holy Spirit.

We don’t need the TLM in ever parish whether one thinks it is beautiful or not.

So you are happy with the state of the Catholic Church today?
It’s just coming out of (hopefully) a terrible scandal in which priests sexually abused our young people…Bishops were invovled in covering this up.

A large percentage of our laity does not attend mass regularly.

A large percentage of our laity do not believe in the Real Presence.

Our traditional orders of nuns are in dire need of money just to support the few elderly that still belong to the congregation.

In the past 40+ years we’ve seen enrollment in Catholic Schools drop from 4.4 million American children attending Catholic schools to 1.7 million children. This makes you satisfied & happy??

I could go on & on, but I won’t. If you, Eilish Maura are happy with the state of affairs in Catholicism today, then you are probably correct…we have no need of the Latin Mass, as far as YOU are concerned.

Myself, I’m not happy with the Catholic status quo, so I see a need for the TLM & the graces it brings, both to the laity & the priests who celebrate it. What the heck…call me a rebel.

 

[HelenRose]

It is so hard to know for sure cause and effect.

My take is: continual bickering and squabbling over a problem does more to discourage people that the controversy itself.

Whether is is the T.L. Mass or the N.O. Mass being presented, it will be important to members of a congregation that there is love and respect shown to each soul celebrating the Mass.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

So you are happy with the state of the Catholic Church today?
It’s just coming out of (hopefully) a terrible scandal in which priests sexually abused our young people…Bishops were invovled in covering this up.

A large percentage of our laity does not attend mass regularly.

A large percentage of our laity do not believe in the Real Presence.

Our traditional orders of nuns are in dire need of money just to support the few elderly that still belong to the congregation.

In the past 40+ years we’ve seen enrollment in Catholic Schools drop from 4.4 million American children attending Catholic schools to 1.7 million children. This makes you satisfied & happy??

I could go on & on, but I won’t. If you, Eilish Maura are happy with the state of affairs in Catholicism today, then you are probably correct…we have no need of the Latin Mass, as far as YOU are concerned.

Myself, I’m not happy with the Catholic status quo, so I see a need for the TLM & the graces it brings, both to the laity & the priests who celebrate it. What the heck…call me a rebel.

I hope you are not suggesting that the TLM is some kind of magic item to make everything alright.

 

[laudamus_te]

I hope you are not suggesting that the TLM is some kind of magic item to make everything alright.

Not magic, because that’s the stuff of the devil. But a cure? Possibly it is… at the very least it is a start. Don’t forget, lex orandi, lex credendi.

As to the question of this thread: I would be happy if every parish had only the TLM.

 

[m134e5]

I certainly would. I think it should be changed.

1.) Not every priest knows how to celebrate the TLM, and altar boys who know how to serve it aren’t that easy to find. Those who don’t know how and don’t want to would probably learn how to out of obedience, but it wouldn’t be reverent. The TLMs nowadays tend to be very reverent- but I think that is more because of the dedication of those present at it than it is because of anything unique about the TLM.

2.) Not every parish has people who would want to go to the TLM. If you have a large, progressive parish, you probably won’t have many people who want to go, and requiring priests to celebrate a liturgy that neither he nor the congregation are into will do more harm than good.

3.) According to Canon Law, priests may only celebrate 3 Masses a day, and a Tridentine Mass- especially one that isn’t well-attended- may be too much for a priest who is already very busy.

 

[laudamus_te]

1.) Not every priest knows how to celebrate the TLM, and altar boys who know how to serve it aren’t that easy to find. Those who don’t know how and don’t want to would probably learn how to out of obedience, but it wouldn’t be reverent. The TLMs nowadays tend to be very reverent- but I think that is more because of the dedication of those present at it than it is because of anything unique about the TLM.

2.) Not every parish has people who would want to go to the TLM. If you have a large, progressive parish, you probably won’t have many people who want to go, and requiring priests to celebrate a liturgy that neither he nor the congregation are into will do more harm than good.

3.) According to Canon Law, priests may only celebrate 3 Masses a day, and a Tridentine Mass- especially one that isn’t well-attended- may be too much for a priest who is already very busy.

All things in good time. The Church will recover with the TLM, and eventually it will replace the NOM. Vocations to the traditional priesthood are burgeoning and are replacing the liberal modernist priests, and like a domino effect, with more altar boys will come more priests. Those laity who dislike the TLM can go to the local Protestant service, and they probably will.

 

[pnewton]

So you are happy with the state of the Catholic Church today?
It’s just coming out of (hopefully) a terrible scandal in which priests sexually abused our young people…Bishops were invovled in covering this up.

What exactly does this have to do with the topic? More TLM masses equals less chance of a scandal???