Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

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laudamus_te said:
All things in good time. The Church will recover with the TLM, and eventually it will replace the NOM. Vocations to the traditional priesthood are burgeoning and are replacing the liberal modernist priests, and like a domino effect, with more altar boys will come more priests. Those laity who dislike the TLM can go to the local Protestant service, and they probably will.
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All this will happen if, and only if it is God’s will. Somehow in all of this discussion we are expressing “our” will “our” likes and dislikes and, unfortunately, often our own agendas.

I am so very grateful that we have the ability to learn and participate in both the T.L.M. and the N.O.M.

Both can be beautiful and devout and both can be done poorly.

We give glory to God by loving each other. Pope Benedict has given us the means to share with each other the beauty of both Masses. I believe he wants us to stop the squabbling and begin healing the wounds we have inflicted on one another.
 
laudamus_te said:
All things in good time. The Church will recover with the TLM, and eventually it will replace the NOM. Vocations to the traditional priesthood are burgeoning and are replacing the liberal modernist priests, and like a domino effect, with more altar boys will come more priests. Those laity who dislike the TLM can go to the local Protestant service, and they probably will.
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Or we will get another new missal that will put both on the back burner liturgically.
 
laudamus_te said:
For many (no pun intended), the Real Presence.
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Exactly how does the OF diminish the Real Presence or fail to encourage belief in it? Exactly what prayers do this within the OF?

BTW - when the TLM was the norm you would not have found folks being willing to answer such surveys or not answer honestly - since there are no real measures for comparision the numbers could be the same.
 
Just south of us in rural Missouri, and many other rural areas, there is a group of 3 parishes served by just one priest. He drives all over the county to say Masses on the weekend. There’s no way he could do an additional 3 Masses each weekend. Before a TLM could be required in every parish, there would have to be enough priests to say all those Masses.

My parish in town has on NO on Saturday evening, several NO Masses on Sunday morning, the guitar strumming hippie Mass at noon (same guy playing the guitar as when I was in high school in the late 60s) and the TLM at 3:00pm…and 4 priests in residence to celebrate them all!
 
HelenRose said:
My take is: continual bickering and squabbling over a problem does more to discourage people that the controversy itself.

Whether is is the T.L. Mass or the N.O. Mass being presented, it will be important to members of a congregation that there is love and respect shown to each soul celebrating the Mass.
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I think we should be grateful that the Church gives us the freedom to express our views on these issues, and does not put that freedom at odds with our obligation to respect its servants.
 
Digitonomy said:
I think we should be grateful that the Church gives us the freedom to express our views on these issues, and does not put that freedom at odds with our obligation to respect its servants.
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We should use our freedom to express our views with love and compassion toward one another. So often we squabble and fight with each other.

The controversy concerning the T.L.M and the N.O.M. often becomes angry and bitter. This is such a sad thing. Surely, there is a way to discuss this particular controversy with more consideration for each other.
 
HelenRose said:
We should use our freedom to express our views with love and compassion toward one another. So often we squabble and fight with each other.

The controversy concerning the T.L.M and the N.O.M. often becomes angry and bitter. This is such a sad thing. Surely, there is a way to discuss this particular controversy with more consideration for each other.
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I agree. I just don’t understand how this can be such a divisive issue. I think about scripture where Jesus seems to enjoy taking on the scribes and pharisees and their “rules”.

It sort of reminds me of the arguments I see here. Some people seem to be more interested in intracacies of mass instead of the real goal, which is to love God, believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and to get to Heaven when it’s all over.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
I hope you are not suggesting that the TLM is some kind of magic item to make everything alright.
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Magic?? No. What made you think of magic?? Possibly you don’t realize that the Church teaches AGAINST magic, saying that:

“It is not easy to draw a clear distinction between magic and witchcraft. Both are concerned with the producing of effects beyond the natural powers of man by agencies **other than **the Divine”.

Perhaps a re-reading of the CCC is in order??
 
HelenRose said:
We should use our freedom to express our views with love and compassion toward one another. So often we squabble and fight with each other.

The controversy concerning the T.L.M and the N.O.M. often becomes angry and bitter. This is such a sad thing. Surely, there is a way to discuss this particular controversy with more consideration for each other.
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I hope so, though it’s been my experience that liberal Catholics can be quite rude when anyone speaks well of the Traditional Latin Mass. I really don’t think that it’s the Mass they are so afraid of, but the theology that goes with it:
  • Honoring the Blessed Virgin & the Saints & Fathers of the Church. Asking their intercession during Mass.
  • Actually allowing our priests to be PRIESTS, with no laity on the altar, no EEM’s, no blending of the clergy & the laity.
  • Altar BOYS, because serving Mass is the first step toward the priesthood.
  • The Mass as a Sacrifice instead of a “Communal meal”.
  • Piety, evidenced by head-coverings, kneeling for Communion & striking one’s breast during the Mea Culpa.
Ect., etc.

Two more things, do not diss a Mass that you know nothing about…study the TLM. & it’s theology. Attend a few & THEN you may say whatever you want.

The Novus Ordo Mass you attend today is NOT the Mass of Vatican II. I doubt those present at the council would even recognize the Mass of 2,008.
 
CradleCath said:
I hope so, though it’s been my experience that liberal Catholics can be quite rude when anyone speaks well of the Traditional Latin Mass. I really don’t think that it’s the Mass they are so afraid of, but the theology that goes with it:
  • Honoring the Blessed Virgin & the Saints & Fathers of the Church. Asking their intercession during Mass.
  • Actually allowing our priests to be PRIESTS, with no laity on the altar, no EEM’s, no blending of the clergy & the laity.
  • Altar BOYS, because serving Mass is the first step toward the priesthood.
  • The Mass as a Sacrifice instead of a “Communal meal”.
  • Piety, evidenced by head-coverings, kneeling for Communion & striking one’s breast during the Mea Culpa.
Ect., etc.

Two more things, do not diss a Mass that you know nothing about…study the TLM. & it’s theology. Attend a few & THEN you may say whatever you want.

The Novus Ordo Mass you attend today is NOT the Mass of Vatican II. I doubt those present at the council would even recognize the Mass of 2,008.
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:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

I cannot agree more, particularly with the sentence that I bolded. I will add that usually people are afraid of what they don’t understand, and rather than make the effort to learn and understand and make a rational judgment, they prefer to take the easy route and simply bash it.
 
CradleCath said:
I hope so, though it’s been my experience that liberal Catholics can be quite rude when anyone speaks well of the Traditional Latin Mass. I really don’t think that it’s the Mass they are so afraid of, but the theology that goes with it:
  • Honoring the Blessed Virgin & the Saints & Fathers of the Church. Asking their intercession during Mass.
  • Actually allowing our priests to be PRIESTS, with no laity on the altar, no EEM’s, no blending of the clergy & the laity.
  • Altar BOYS, because serving Mass is the first step toward the priesthood.
  • The Mass as a Sacrifice instead of a “Communal meal”.
  • Piety, evidenced by head-coverings, kneeling for Communion & striking one’s breast during the Mea Culpa.
Ect., etc.

Two more things, do not diss a Mass that you know nothing about…study the TLM. & it’s theology. Attend a few & THEN you may say whatever you want.

The Novus Ordo Mass you attend today is NOT the Mass of Vatican II. I doubt those present at the council would even recognize the Mass of 2,008.
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I think that you have missed my point. I have noticed that there have been people on both sides of this fence who have been rude and sarcastic.

I have noticed that there have been people on both sides of this fence who have presented good and valid reasons for why they prefer one form over the other.

My hope and prayer is that we will be able to worship God in love and respect for one another.

I am grateful that we are able to attend both the N.O.M. and the T.L.M. I have found Christ in both forms and that gives me great joy and peace.

p.s. I would like to add that I am not lazy, afraid, irrational and neither do I bash either form. I love them both.
 
laudamus_te said:
Oh sorry, I should have included the standard disclaimer: “IMO.” I thought it went without saying.
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You might be surprised what some people believe. I just thought I would ask since you worded things so definitely.
 
Richie_Nelson said:
I agree. I just don’t understand how this can be such a divisive issue. I think about scripture where Jesus seems to enjoy taking on the scribes and pharisees and their “rules”.

It sort of reminds me of the arguments I see here. Some people seem to be more interested in intracacies of mass instead of the real goal, which is to love God, believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and to get to Heaven when it’s all over.
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Amen, Amen, Amen. 👍
Hello, don’t intend to be flip, but am wondering if those Mass attendees who would like to see the Novus Ordo done aways with entirely and reinstate the TLM Mass only are not more left brained (all the ducks in a row, more detail oriented etc.) than the right brained, or those with a combination of both left and right brain (more artistic, less rule oriented etc.) activity. Is it in the genes??? Sorry, ex. teacher. Studied the theory a bit, but don’t ask me too many questions about it as I don’t have many of the answers. 😃 Peace.
 
Richie_Nelson said:
I agree. I just don’t understand how this can be such a divisive issue. I think about scripture where Jesus seems to enjoy taking on the scribes and pharisees and their “rules”.

It sort of reminds me of the arguments I see here. Some people seem to be more interested in intracacies of mass instead of the real goal, which is to love God, believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and to get to Heaven when it’s all over.
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pnewton said:
Do you consider yourself a prophet?
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It has been over forty years since I had the privilege of attending a TLM and I haven’t forgotten it, so I think it highly unlikely that those exposed only to the New Mass will forget it either. What comes around, goes around. No, I’m not a prophet. That’s just life. 😃 Peace.
 
HelenRose said:
I think that you have missed my point. I have noticed that there have been people on both sides of this fence who have been rude and sarcastic.

I have noticed that there have been people on both sides of this fence who have presented good and valid reasons for why they prefer one form over the other.

My hope and prayer is that we will be able to worship God in love and respect for one another.

I am grateful that we are able to attend both the N.O.M. and the T.L.M. I have found Christ in both forms and that gives me great joy and peace.

p.s. I would like to add that I am not lazy, afraid, irrational and neither do I bash either form. I love them both.
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You go girl.!!!👍 Peace.
 
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