Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

[pnewton]

I was thinking about this thread yesterday (the real one, not the rabbit trails). I realized I did not understand the rationale behind desiring the TLM in parishes where one will never attend. I get the desire to have it available for all who want it. I do not get, however, why forcing some parish in another part of the world to celebrate this particular Rite would be a source of happiness. Is it just the selfish desire to control others tastes? Or is it the belief that the TLM is the only proper and valid celebration possible?

 

[Michael_Neal]

Our parish started having the Tridentine Mass and while it was interesting to attend and learn about I won’t be attending it regularly. I found it rather boring actually, I could not follow along at all. For the most part it was basically like watching mass on TV with the sound turned off.

I support the mass for people who prefer it though.

 

[piouswoman]

piouswoman;3463092:

Gee, I though only God could convert… and in His time, not yours.

In the last number of years one incident stands out… Cardinal Kasper and his letter that seemed to say that the Jews had their own means of salvation.

The Church, which you say is failing, has corrected him.

I suggest you read some more recent stuff on Salvation Outside The Church… not just Feeney. Perhaps

books.google.com/books?id=_EsIe7CCAwYC&dq=fr+peter+stravinskas&pg=PP1&ots=BX_AXZ2oGD&source=citation&sig=juokh7DkBfbMzGfRffaVMEUDjOk&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Fr+Peter+Stravinskas&btnG=Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=bottom-3results#PPP1,M1

.

Wow, can you please explain what you are talking about here?

It was Peter that admitted the first converts from Judaism (Acts 2:38-40), as well as from paganism (Acts 10:5 ss).

“And he (Peter) ordered them (the Gentiles) baptized in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 10:48). This was a thing unheard of, that the Jews, “of the faith”, should consort with “heathen”; but Peter broke all bonds.

Now I suggest you read your basic Catechism.

 

[MrS]

MrS;3463268:

Wow, can you please explain what you are talking about here?

It was Peter that admitted the first converts

from Judaism (Acts 2:38-40), as well as from paganism (Acts 10:5 ss).

“And he (Peter) ordered them (the Gentiles) baptized in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 10:48). This was a thing unheard of, that the Jews, “of the faith”, should consort with “heathen”; but Peter broke all bonds.

Now I suggest you read your basic Catechism.

Are you saying that Peter was more than the instrument of conversions? That his admitting them was a definitive act? That is what your words imply… and that implies that God’s involvement was not the cause, the reason, or the grace of any conversion.

However, I see that you (as some others who have boxed themselves in with their own intelligence have also done), have made no comment on the link I provided. At least you could say you have no intention of learning if your position is wrong, if that is the case.

Our positions differ. A number of posters here, who have very often shown their competence in these matters, now have disagreed with you.

I trust that others reading this thread will click the link, read the Catholic Catechism, check the numerous resources available, and also understand that your position of who is saved is quite erroneous, and stubbornly held.

Now to the OP…
My opinion is that every Parish should have an easy access to a proper TLM.

further

My opinion is that every Parish should have an easy access to a proper NO.

Any liturgy offering less than the proper rubrics for that form should be ended.

.

 

[piouswoman]

piouswoman;3463833:

Are you saying that Peter was more than the instrument of conversions? That his admitting them was a definitive act? That is what your words imply… and that implies that God’s involvement was not the cause, the reason, or the grace of any conversion.

However, I see that you (as some others who have boxed themselves in with their own intelligence have also done),

have made no comment on the link I provided. At least you could say you have no intention of learning if your position is wrong, if that is the case.

Our positions differ. A number of posters here, who have very often shown their competence in these matters, now have disagreed with you.

I trust that others reading this thread will click the link, read the Catholic Catechism, check the numerous resources available, and also understand that your position of who is saved is quite erroneous, and stubbornly held.

Now to the OP…
My opinion is that every Parish should have an easy access to a proper TLM.

further

My opinion is that every Parish should have an easy access to a proper NO.

Any liturgy offering less than the proper rubrics for that form should be ended.

.

Pardon me, but the link you posted is nothing more than a book and is merely speculation and opinion of its author. It was not written by a pope, a saint, or a doctor of the church as you would have anyone believe. What I have posted is taken from the Catholic Catechism, before Vatican II. I also noticed under “about this book” there were links to other books related to the issue and one of them was this:
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/
If you scroll down they give the true definition of “no salvation outside of the Catholic Church”.

For you to say that I have no intention of learning that my position is wrong, you are also denying the position of popes, bishops, priests, saints, martyrs, and doctors of the church for the past near two thousand years. That is simply erroneous of you. Your argument is based on falsehoods.

 

[MrS]

Okay, only a book. You win. If you are not in the Catholic Church, off to hell with ya. Too bad for all those OT saints. No need for God’s mercy if it does not have any effect.

Maybe you should continue your dribble on the new thread about Feeney, and let this one go back to the OP.

.

 

[pnewton]

Can anyone please explain what all this Feeneyite nonsense has to do with the thread? If not, then learn how to start a new thread and do so, please.

 

[elt1956]

Sorry, that’s simply wrong. You can’t force a priest to celebrate a form he doesn’t know and is not comfortable with, nor can you force a poor parish to spend large amounts of money to be able to celebrate a form that is not the norm. For those parishes who both have parishioners who want the EF and are able to celebrate it, kudos! Would I like to have it in my parish? You bet! Do I think it would be fair to impose it on my pastor who doesn’t want to celebrate it? NO. Do I think we can afford the vestments and furnishings we’d need to celebrate it? NO.

I think that unfortunately many Catholics will never ask for TLM, because they are simply not used to it. How many generations have passed since TLM was the “norm”? There are so many that will resist having the TLM in their parish simply because it is different from the NO which is now the “norm”. Nothing wrong with the NO, but I think everyone should be able to experience the beauty of TLM. Peace.

 

[johnnydigit]

Sorry, that’s simply wrong. You can’t force a priest to celebrate a form he doesn’t know and is not comfortable with, nor can you force a poor parish to spend large amounts of money to be able to celebrate a form that is not the norm. For those parishes who both have parishioners who want the EF and are able to celebrate it, kudos! Would I like to have it in my parish? You bet! Do I think it would be fair to impose it on my pastor who doesn’t want to celebrate it? NO. Do I think we can afford the vestments and furnishings we’d need to celebrate it? NO.

simply wrong? judging something you don’t understand is more wrong. the Holy Father pushes it because he knows the depth of the TLM, and how it can immerse the Church in a deeper faith it once knew. no, it’s not for everyone because they choose not to go deeper and don’t care to understand it. it simply isn’t for some people and i understand. for them, the OF is still available, but they should at least be educated and given the chance to experience something that can make them better Catholics.

money is not an issue.

the Holy Father wants it as well as Latin to be more widespread. it doesn’t matter if priests don’t agree and don’t want to. they are his servants. the Holy See knows what’s better for the Church as a whole than does a local priest. as Catholics, we have lots of options in every aspect of our faith that makes it the “fullness of the faith”. TLM is one option that shouldn’t be ignored.

if you don’t understand why the Holy Father has requested TLM, more Latin in the OF, more Gregorian Chanting, etc. i suggest you read some of his writings before scoffing and writing it off. it goes much, much deeper than just a boring old Mass. please don’t just look at what it is, but learn why it is we Catholics do the things we do.

 

[Phemie]

simply wrong? judging something you don’t understand is more wrong. the Holy Father pushes it because he knows the depth of the TLM, and how it can immerse the Church in a deeper faith it once knew. no, it’s not for everyone because they choose not to go deeper and don’t care to understand it. it simply isn’t for some people and i understand. for them, the OF is still available, but they should at least be educated and given the chance to experience something that can make them better Catholics.

money is not an issue.

the Holy Father wants it as well as Latin to be more widespread. it doesn’t matter if priests don’t agree and don’t want to. they are his servants. the Holy See knows what’s better for the Church as a whole than does a local priest. as Catholics, we have lots of options in every aspect of our faith that makes it the “fullness of the faith”. TLM is one option that shouldn’t be ignored.

if you don’t understand why the Holy Father has requested TLM, more Latin in the OF, more Gregorian Chanting, etc. i suggest you read some of his writings before scoffing and writing it off. it goes much, much deeper than just a boring old Mass. please don’t just look at what it is, but learn why it is we Catholics do the things we do.

Oh, please. I have nothing against Latin, would in fact appreciate more of it in the OF, since I’m quite familiar with what the CSL says. Would also appreciate more Gregorian Chant – or I should say ‘would appreciate having Gregorian chant’.

I also remember the EF quite well, having been a teen when the OF came into being. I would love to have it in my parish. I only have a problem with the question asked: paraphrased “Would you like to see the EF imposed on all parishes?” No, I wouldn’t.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I think that unfortunately many Catholics will never ask for TLM, because they are simply not used to it.

There is, supposedly, a built in audience that have been petitioning etc to get the indult from JPII and to get that expanded.

Not sure what happened to that groundswell that was supposed to be out there…

 

[piouswoman]

There is, supposedly, a built in audience that have been petitioning etc to get the indult from JPII and to get that expanded.

Not sure what happened to that groundswell that was supposed to be out there…

Most got sick of getting the run around and having to jump from parish to parish every Sunday seeking out the TLM. Without the benefit of having the full Catholic life (sacraments, Holy Mass on a daily basis, schooling for their children, etc and a feeling of parish life), they have simply chosen the to make use of the full Catholic life offered by the excellent, dedicated and hard working priests of the SSPX.

 

[Freshman88]

There is, supposedly, a built in audience that have been petitioning etc to get the indult from JPII and to get that expanded.

Not sure what happened to that groundswell that was supposed to be out there…

Give it time. The Church moves in decades, not months.

I have visited young traditionalist seminarians (which are packed), and am friends wtih many young traditionalist Catholics. We’ve only just begun in our devotions and studies of the Classical rite. Come back in 30 years, when we are mature theologians and priests of the Classical Roman rite.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Most got sick of getting the run around and having to jump from parish to parish every Sunday seeking out the TLM. Without the benefit of having the full Catholic life (sacraments, Holy Mass on a daily basis, schooling for their children, etc and a feeling of parish life), they have simply chosen the to make use of the full Catholic life offered by the excellent, dedicated and hard working priests of the SSPX.

One would think they would come back and enjoy the fruits of their labors rather than dropping out.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Give it time. The Church moves in decades, not months.

I have visited young traditionalist seminarians (which are packed), and am friends wtih many young traditionalist Catholics. We’ve only just begun in our devotions and studies of the Classical rite. Come back in 30 years, when we are mature theologians and priests of the Classical Roman rite.

Give it time? For a group that supposedly worked since before JPII issued that first indult??? There were supposedly folks chomping at the proverbial bit for this opportunity and pushed to be ‘heard’.

How long is needed now and why???

 

[Freshman88]

Give it time? For a group that supposedly worked since before JPII issued that first indult??? There were supposedly folks chomping at the proverbial bit for this opportunity and pushed to be ‘heard’.

How long is needed now and why???

Decades. It is only because of the MP that we can know finally start to grow, and we are. I know first hand that traditional groups such as ICRSS and FSSP have seminaries that are swelling. They have too many vocation applications. I see more and more people at my Traditional parishes every week.

It takes 7 years at a traditional seminary, not to mention any time spent in preformation. I takes another 7 or so years to create a theologian.

We’re only starting to pump out the troops.

 

[Jimsdun]

Most got sick of getting the run around and having to jump from parish to parish every Sunday seeking out the TLM. Without the benefit of having the full Catholic life (sacraments, Holy Mass on a daily basis, schooling for their children, etc and a feeling of parish life), they have simply chosen the to make use of the full Catholic life offered by the excellent, dedicated and hard working priests of the SSPX.

On that note, is the SSPX valid now? Which is worse? Going to the SSPX (there is one in Phoenix) or going to the “born again Baptist mass”

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Decades. It is only because of the MP that we can know finally start to grow, and we are. I know first hand that traditional groups such as ICRSS and FSSP have seminaries that are swelling. They have too many vocation applications. I see more and more people at my Traditional parishes every week.

It takes 7 years at a traditional seminary, not to mention any time spent in preformation. I takes another 7 or so years to create a theologian.

We’re only starting to pump out the troops.

So the talk of already having many people ready and waiting just for an approval to have the mass more available was a lie?

Maybe all those names on petitions etc were fakes and the popes got bad information.

 

[piouswoman]

One would think they would come back and enjoy the fruits of their labors rather than dropping out.

No, traditional Catholics fight for the truths of their faith. Modernists don’t have the stomach for it. For most, it is much easier to live the undemanding and non penitential modern Catholic life.

 

[piouswoman]

So the talk of already having many people ready and waiting just for an approval to have the mass more available was a lie?

Maybe all those names on petitions etc were fakes and the popes got bad information.

Waiting for approval? Didn’t you hear? The TLM was NEVER abrogated. Just unlawfully suppressed.