Who's Going to Pay the Bills?: Purpose-Driven Coronavirus Business Shutdowns Cause Economic Catastrophe

[toddy]

Just take a risk of slow down of casualties and possible second dip to keep the economy living. Scary.

Do what you have to do. Just be careful. It is the blood clot disease!

My brothers, nephews have worked OT since the lock down, and healthy. They do not stop any where between the office and home except gas station.

 

[Socrates92]

You want stay inside, fine, no one is making you leave home. But allow the not vulnerable among us to try to bring the economy back.

Yes, and I would recommend doing this while this, at least is still an option. Overwise, out of necessity, we might eventually have to force people to work regardless of whether they feel safe.

 

[Gab123]

Shut down churches and keep liquor stores open, yes, it shows what the priorities are.
For a Catholic going to church means participating in the mass, which is a Holy Sacrifice and a real communion with God through the Most Holy Eucharist, which is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, when God makes Himself real food for our souls.

 

[Anrakyr]

Shut down churches and keep liquor stores open, yes, it shows what the priorities are.

People can die from alcohol withdrawal, you’ll live just fine watching mass on EWTN.

As for everyone else little drink is good for moral and ontop most people don’t spend 45-60 minutes with 200 other people in a corner store.

Drop it.

 

[jeannetherese]

There is truth in what you are saying.
On the other hand, there are linkages between alcohol and domestic violence.
From Psychology Today:
“Alcohol is also widely considered to be a key predictor of IPV, primarily due to its disinhibitory effect on aggression. As the nation has sheltered at home, sales of alcohol have skyrocketed, with some sales rising as much as 243 percent. Again, this trend mimics past experiences with natural disasters and crises—in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, alcohol consumption rose sharply. For relationships already marred with violence and abuse, alcohol adds fuel to the fire, particularly when coupled with the isolation and stress discussed above.”

Alcohol is a depressant and mental health challenges are on the increase as people hunker down in their homes.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthi...-of-suicides-tied-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic

I was initially astonished that there was no move to dampen/discourage alcohol consumption when the push to shelter in place occurred.

 

[Gab123]

People can die from alcohol withdrawal, you’ll live just fine watching mass on EWTN.

That’s like saying a person can die from nicotine withdrawal and they need their cigarettes to survive. I realize that people are addicted to chemicals and think they need a drug to get them through life, though the chance of death from alcohol withdrawal is Infinitesimally small. In fact the way to overcome addiction is to quit cold turkey and replace it with something good for you. If you have this problem, you have my sympathies and I urge you to seek help before it’s too late. At the heart of addictions is a lack of spiritual life within.

As for watching mass on TV, that’s like hungry starving people watching a food channel where they prepare a magnificent meal, and all you can do is watch. The Eucharist is good spiritual food indeed, and no food means no sanctifying life.

 

[StudentMI]

In fact the way to overcome addiction is to quit cold turkey and replace it with something good for you.

In hospitals they treat alcohol withdrawal (DTs) with benzos like Xanax. It’s not a game to play for serious alcoholics. It can be deadly.

 

[Gab123]

That’s usually done to make it more comfortable a transition for the patient. Though possible, from what I gather, the risk of death is tiny. Regardless, if one is such an alcoholic that one will die without it, treatment can be sought with medication. The idea of keeping liquor stores open as essential for the safety of alcoholics, while shutting down the Mass as non essential, is laughable. Furthermore, grocery stores remain open and they can buy their fix there.

 

[EndTimes]

Reduce people to poverty and hunger and tax them to pay the bills…

Isn’t that the way of AntiChrist and his minions?

 

[jeannetherese]

The tax base appears to be shrinking as some state and local governments furlough employees or mandate wage reductions.

Unemployment wave is rippling out to hit state and city workers - CSMonitor.com

 

[phaster]

The tax base appears to be shrinking as some state and local governments furlough employees or mandate wage reductions.

Unemployment wave is rippling out to hit state and city workers - CSMonitor.com

the debt problem w/ local governments is financial mismanagement of their portfolios

for example my home town of San Diego used the same portfolio management technique as the city of Detroit (which went bankrupt a few years back because it kept “billions” of debt obligations off balance sheet)

simple truth is the San Diego city council and the San Diego city attorney back in 2008 acknowledged there was indeed a problem w/ portfolio management BUT used really cryptic language to describe what essentially is a middle school math error

placed a “highlighted” PDF on google docs that outlines the problem

www.tinyurl.com/13thcheck

have a look at the PDF, think you’ll find the document pretty interesting

FWIW the problem w/ portfolio mismanagement sadly isn’t isolated to just San Diego, the problem repeats itself at the county, state and federal levels

www.tinyurl.com/investorwarning

at the global level debt is > 250 trillion (and that does not include financial derivatives like credit default swaps)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[StudentMI]

Oh definitely. I agree. I just meant that for serious alcoholics it’s not pretty.

 

[JoeFreedom]

New CDC estimates of the actual case fatality rate is approximately 0.26% to 0.4%. Had we listened to reason two months ago and to science (Epidemiologist Dr. John P.A. Ioannidis at Stanford) we would not be in the mess we caused. To quote the doctor, “This evidence fiasco creates tremendous uncertainty about the risk of dying from Covid-19. Reported case fatality rates, like the official 3.4% rate from the World Health Organization, cause horror — and are meaningless. Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes.”

Remember the cries of millions dead???

Fauci lied. Fauci’s words, (March 26th): “The overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%).” But this was only in discussing to his fellow “experts”. You and I, the stupid public we are, need to be shown the proper way, which is the way of control. Shut up and do as I say, regardless of whether I believe it or not.

I have been pointing out over and over again that if you use a number in the denominator that includes only the people known to have been (confirmed) infected, you will (not could) overstate the rate, potentially by 2 or 3, or as high as 100 or 300 times. The actual infection fatality rate (the rate of death from all infections) is the true test of how deadly a disease is for any given individual trying to understand if they should cower in their basement with a full hazmat suit on until we obtain a vaccine and listening blindly and obediently to our virtue-signalling “leaders” who ultimately know what is best for us ignoramuses.

Again, the 0.26% is assuming if we knew 100% with certainty of all the people infected. Thus this rate is actually lower.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Remember that the lockdowns such as we are getting this year have never been tried in this fashion before. It is actually a giant social experiment based on a 2006 paper which was detailed on a separate thread here at CAF.

Here is a follow on discussion comparing the reaction to the 2020 pandemic as compared to the 1957-58 and the 1918-19 pandemics.

Zerohedge

From the article (emphasis mine):

So why the enormous difference in economic effects? The answer almost certainly lies in the fact that governments in 2020—unlike in any other period in American history—engaged in widespread business closures, “stay-at-home” orders, and other state-mandated and state-enforced actions that led to widespread layoffs and plummeting economic output.

Defenders of government-coerced “lockdowns” have insisted that fear of the virus would have destroyed the economy even without lockdowns, but there is no historical precedent for this claim, and no current evidence to support it. Although some survey data has been proffered to suggest that more than 60 percent of Americans say they plan to comply with stay-at-home orders, this merely tells us how people make plans when threatened with fines, police harassment, and other coercive measures.

In reality, the experience of the 1957–58 pandemic—or even the 1918–19 pandemic—gives us no reason to believe that joblessness should be increasing at unprecedented rates and that GDP would collapse by catastrophic levels. In a modern industrialized economy, that sort of economic damage is only achievable through government intervention, such as socialist coups , wars, and forced economic shutdowns in the name of combating disease.

more from the article (emphasis author’s)

Defenders of lockdowns will likely continue to claim that "we have no choice" but to continue lockdowns for long periods of time. At the very least, many claim that the lockdowns until now have been “worth it.” Yet the efficacy of lockdowns remains an open question, and has hardly been proven. Meanwhile, the world faces the worst economic disaster experienced in centuries. It didn’t have to be this way.

I fully agree: it didn’t have to be like this. Control the long term facilities as was done in FL and that by itself would have been sufficient to stop the hospitals from getting flooded. No need to lock down the rest of us and this should have been seen by the end of March. The vulnerable could continue to stay home, no one is making them participate in the economy. But let the rest of us get out there and rescue what is left.

 

[JoeFreedom]

"we have no choice"

This is simply our rulers kind way of saying, “Do what I tell you to do and shut up about it.”

 

[1cthlctrth]

More livelihoods and lives destroyed as a result of state Governors shutting down businesses. Many of these jobs are not coming back.

Over 2.4 million Americans filed for unemployment last week, as coronavirus job losses drag on | Fox Business

More than 2.4 million laid-off workers applied for unemployment last week, the Labor Department reported on Thursday, as the coronavirus pandemic, and the economic catastrophe it’s triggered, forced companies to continue slashing jobs.
The new report, which covers the week ending May 16, pushes the nine-week total of losses since states directed residents to stay at home and required nonessential businesses to nearly 39 million.

Some 42% Of Jobs Lost In Pandemic Are Gone For Good

The University of Chicago estimates that 42% of the recent layoffs will result in permanent job losses.

 

[HarryStotle]

JoeFreedom:

No, it is still on the topic. It’s called a debate. I use logical arguments to support my cause through propositions. You missed the point.

If you think its a debate I strongly advise you to look into logical fallacy and why whataboutism is wrong.

Most people who accuse others of whataboutism don’t really understand the logical implications of what it means. Nor do they comprehend the difference between whataboutisms and parallel cases (treating like cases alike) or comparisons made ceteris paribus (all things being equal).

Merely bringing up a comparable case or instance is not sufficient to make the comparable case a “whataboutism.”

 

[JimG]

In any case I suppose that the coming economic depression will provide some unexpected opportunities for those who are willing to look for them.

 

[Anrakyr]

Merely bringing up a comparable case or instance is not sufficient to make the comparable case a “whataboutism.”

And likes don’t suddenly a good argument make but we still have them to show support even if in the end people subconsciously or not use them as a indicator of popular (and therefor more correct) opinion.

Just because you say it isn’t whataboutism without addressing the conserns that it is, doesn’t dismiss those points fairly.

If you have to ask and phrase ‘what about…’ then you likely are.

 

[farronwolf]

In any case I suppose that the coming economic depression will provide some unexpected opportunities for those who are willing to look for them.

Yep, might just be the time to purchase some real estate in about 6 - 8 months or when the foreclosures start to role in and they have sat on the market for a couple of months, and stocks towards the end of the year or beginning of next year when the bottom really falls out.

For those who have kept themselves in a good financial position the resulting economic downturn could be a good thing.

Just for kicks, were we in a situation before this of over employment or in a false economy? So far, we haven’t experienced any true catastrophic shortages of anything that I am aware of. Some inconveniences, certainly. Have we just gotten accustom to the excesses as a society, so that now a little bit of pain is the end of the world.