Who's Going to Pay the Bills?: Purpose-Driven Coronavirus Business Shutdowns Cause Economic Catastrophe

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whatistrue said:
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AlNg:
I know people who have had the corona virus and yes it was bad for a few days, but they recovered all right within two weeks and are back to normal now.
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So the 23,000+ deaths in the US so far are not enough (or are maybe imaginary)? How many would be enough?
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How many cigarette-induced deaths are enough before the government enforces human behavior?
How about distracted driving? Government wants to save lives by enforcing behavior?
No, it wants to pick the easy political road to controlling human behavior. But it won’t take on car manufacturers or tobacco companies.
Banning cigarettes would cause waaaaay too much disruption to the economy, and we simply can’t have that kind of disruption.
Right?
Or is the disruption of people’s lives only acceptable when no one’s political future is on the line from lobbying groups…?

Mike Dewine thinks he’s made himself a hero because media lap dogs say so. I think he’s probably finished as a governor, if I had to predict. He had a good plan initially, and then he fell in love with power and overstepped his office.
 
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whatabout
whatabout
whatabout

How about addressing the question instead of deflecting?
 
whatistrue said:
whatabout
whatabout
whatabout

How about addressing the question instead of deflecting?
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I
just
did

And you don’t like the answer I gave.
You asked how many deaths are needed to justify government action.
My answer is, in a nutshell, it depends on who’s political cohones are at risk.
Bazillions of people die from cigarettes, and politicians ought to be going round right now confiscating them and shutting down that sickness factory.

But no. A virus qualifies. But big tobacco is too scary to fight.
 
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No, you didn’t. You didn’t even try to answer the actual question (ETA: At least as of the time this was drafted). You just trotted out a series of whatabouts. Done here. Welcome to the Ignore bucket.
 
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JoeFreedom said:
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Anrakyr:
They weren’t wrong that masks weren’t needed they were wrong to trust the public.
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That’s nonsense. The public is smart enough to realize when they are being duped. And if you want me to go find the video evidence of the CDC explicitly stating that wearing a mask is bad for you and more dangerous, I will, because the Surgeon General aired commercials nationally and was on news programs day in and day out telling people exactly that. And now they are telling people that masks are essential and everyone should be required.

The people know that the potential of surviving is 99.5+%, so they know this push by the CDC and the Whoooo? to be totally safe just a bunch of bullpop.

There is a great article by Denis Prager here: Some Thoughts About Being Safe by Dennis Prager

Some excerpts:
  1. Until it’s safe’ means 'never.
  2. The pursuit of “safe” over virtually all other considerations is life-suppressing.
  3. We’re going crazy on the safe issue. It is making police states. That’s my worry: In the name of safety, many Americans are dropping all other considerations.
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Safety is part of the virtues of charity and justice I suppose.
But safety is not the end point. The end point is human dignity. And human beings are communal. So safety needs to take that into account, using common sense. Safety serves overall human dignity. If it didn’t, we’d all be forced to live in plastic bubbles for protection. And that’s not human life.

(common sense has come to be a misunderstood cliche unfortunately.)
 
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Agreed that recklessness and willful disregard for human life and fellow mankind are not charitable and are against God’s commands. And to the end, we must recognize that there is risk in this life and perfect safety cannot be guaranteed and that this issue is not one of black nor white. We must appeal to the common sense arguments.
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
Yes. Because everything is political. Or religious, if you like. Our little discussion in essence goes back to “Man is inherently good” vs. “Man is inherently evil.” And whatever position you take on that would in turn influence what you think about whatever individual situation that comes up.
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“If I was too drop dead in the next moment I’d continue playing this game of billiards. For what more glory can I give to God then share my time and a good drink with my friends.”
goout said:
I
just
did
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If you have to compare something else like it’s the same thing, you didn’t. You are resorting to whataboutism.

Sounds great on paper but glosses over the individual complications in whatever you compare it too.

Let’s take your example of cigarettes for instance. Baring second hand smoke it’s a choice for everyone involved. Even then it’s a choice to go smoking/non.
It’s not contagious, you can’t spread lung cancer or any other complication during treatment.
Those in hospital for smoking related illness don’t plug up the system with their numbers resulting in a lack of treatment for other cases.
One of the worst aspects of this pandemic is normal injury that under normal circumstances with treatment are not fatal again.

So no, you didn’t. It’s not the same thing @goout stop wasting our time.
 
Anrakyr said:
Let’s take your example of cigarettes for instance. Baring second hand smoke it’s a choice for everyone involved. Even then it’s a choice to go smoking/non.
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You argument about “choice” is severely flawed.

A) I make a choice to drive my car on the road with other people.
B) I do not make a choice to have the drunk driver stay home. He chooses to drink and go out and potentially kill me.
C) Therefore, he could kill me.

Shall we lock down anyone in their homes who drinks alcohol to ensure total safety on the road?
 
JoeFreedom said:
Shall we lock down anyone in their homes who drinks alcohol to ensure total safety on the road?
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Being drunk isn’t contagious either but you missed the point completely so I’ll ask you to stay on topic.
 
No, it is still on the topic. It’s called a debate. I use logical arguments to support my cause through propositions. You missed the point.

A) I make a choice to drive my car on the road with other people.
B) I do not make a choice to have the drunk driver stay home. He chooses to drink and go out and potentially kill me.
C) Therefore, he could kill me.

A) I make a choice to go outside and go to the store.
B) I do not make a choice to have the COVID infected person to stay home. He chooses to go out potentially kill me.
C) Therefore, he could kill me.

In scenario #1, we DO NOT lockdown all society until we are safe.
In scenario #2, we DO lockdown all society until we are all safe.

Why do you continue to keep harping on contagiousness. We do not do this for the flu and the flu kills many people.
 
15 Democrats in NY are now investing NY Governor Cuomo for sending patients back to nursing homes and killing nearly 5,800 people. Cuomo deflected and said he was just following CDC guidance.

So either Cuomo is a complete moron for sending people to their deaths and he is responsible for his own decisions and should be held accountable, or the CDC was complicit in idiotic guidance to force Cuomo to send people to their deaths.

Either way, either way, it doesn’t bode well for Cuomo or the CDC (which you know, are like total scientists who couldn’t be wrong…) SCIENCE and stuff.
 
Just as the sheep will be separated from the goats at the judgment, so too, at gubernatorial elections times, the power-hungry, iron-fisted governors will be separated from the ones who used common sense and respected the rights of their states’ citizens, and everyone will clearly know whom was which. The day of reckoning will eventually come for every governor of every state, and I think we’ll see a massive change, nationwide. That’s my two-cents worth.
 
I have prayed (and know preemptively by my faith) that God uses (bad things like) this pandemic to bring about a greater good. I hope part of that greater good includes exposing the darkest of the darkest of those who are in power with selfish motives of power, greed, and control in mind, and ultimately the masses wake up and see the downside of electing them. I pray too that those who have passed were taken up to Heaven and God used this crisis to bring more people to Him.
 
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JoeFreedom said:
I have prayed (and know preemptively by my faith) that God uses (bad things like) this pandemic to bring about a greater good. I hope part of that greater good includes exposing the darkest of the darkest of those who are in power with selfish motives of power, greed, and control in mind, and ultimately the masses wake up and see the downside of electing them. I pray too that those who have passed were taken up to Heaven and God used this crisis to bring more people to Him.
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And, those people who God brought to Himself are indeed the most blessed of all.

JoeFreedom, your user name says it all.
 
JoeFreedom said:
No, it is still on the topic. It’s called a debate. I use logical arguments to support my cause through propositions. You missed the point.
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If you think its a debate I strongly advise you to look into logical fallacy and why whataboutism is wrong.
JoeFreedom said:
Why do you continue to keep harping on contagiousness. We do not do this for the flu and the flu kills many people.
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The flu isn’t as contagious for starters.
 
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Anrakyr said:
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JoeFreedom:
Shall we lock down anyone in their homes who drinks alcohol to ensure total safety on the road?
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Being drunk isn’t contagious either but you missed the point completely so I’ll ask you to stay on topic.
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Your claim of whataboutism is nothing more than refusal to address relevant points.
it adds nothing to the discussion.
Of course smoking is choice. So is dining out and going to the hobby shop and the music shop and the grocery store. Life is full of choices.
All of these choices affect everyone else around us, whether intended by the actor or not.
 
Thank you for proving my point;

“Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza.”

Excuse my contagious argument. The Crux of it was born from the idea that Covid19 is more serious and has a higher person transmission rate then the flu.

Either or the point here is stop whataboutism.
 
Anrakyr said:
Either or the point here is stop whataboutism.
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Yes lets just stop the talk about whataboutism…

Whataboutism is essentially the use of red herrings.
Influenza and cigarette pandemics are not red herrings, they are direct comparisons to hazards the government has not wished to combat by controlling human choices and behavior.
Governments are are selectively choosing which modes of human behavior they wish to radically regulate.
If preventing death is really the priority, then ban cigarettes now, and let’s get serious about health.
 
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