Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

[zerinus]

I hope you know that superficial “happiness” is not part of the equation at all–there is much more to it. Truth is the bottom line. And no one can “live a lie” for any amount of time without it taking a tremenous toll. A person’s integrity is a casualty–so is mental health and even physical health. And what is in store for her when she finally wakes up to all she has lost? Why, she either has to “live a lie” to keep her children and friends or risk losing them. While we’re at it, what happens to trust? What happens to the person’s real Faith and Spirituality? Sacrificed to the LDS? How cruel!

I think that former Mormons know this and so that once they get back on their feet, they do try to at least alert others to the danger that Mormonism presents.

That didn’t answer my questions though.

zerinus

 

[thecourt]

As a meber of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, my educated guess would be anger and losing the Holy Ghost, the source of all truth. Somewhere in their life their faith of the died or was never there to begin with. Guidance by the Holy Ghost, reading the scriptures, following the Brethren, going to church, the fundamental things I do as a active member keep me strong in my faith and the church.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Of course! That must be it! Why bother trying to discover real reasons.

 

[ronald_g_w]

QUOTE=AMDGtoo;4068090]Or they can be so sad and in such pain that they were lied to, duped, and made to suffer so much that they work hard to make sure that no one else is hurt so very badly.

Who lied, duped and made you suffer that you need to make such a comment ?

Afterall, the LDS do not treat ex-members very well–hmm, the LDS don’t treat members very well either. And that is surely not very Christian.

]

From your Christian like comments I can asure you that having been on bothsides of the fence there is more Charity to be fould amongst the LDS ( by their fruits …)

 

[Ruthie]

By their fruits indeed.

May I ask why you don’t list a religion in your profile, Ronald?

I find the whole “milk before meat” business to be dishonest. We Catholics have nothing to hide; you can find everything we believe and practice in the Catechism.

We do not shun those who are excommunicated; in fact, we welcome them in our churches. We do not keep non-Catholic family members away from Catholic weddings. That’s charity, Ronald.

Ruthie

 

[mark_a]

To answer the op:

I don’t know, but I get the same impression from Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Come to think of it ex-Catholics seem to really fight hard against the Catholic Church.

Protestants who have “graduated” into the Catholic Church seem to be pretty laid back about their former faith. And many have nothing but good things to say about it.

When you figure it all out, please pm me.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Who lied, duped and made you suffer that you need to make such a comment ?

Don’t you know? Hurt my children and you do it to me! I have also known other famlies that have are still heartbroken by what the LDS have done and I have personally seen and experienced the rotten fruit that the LDS produces.

there is more Charity to be fould amongst the LDS ( by their fruits …)

Like I said it is rotten fruit. It hurts the members (they are lied to, worked unbearably to provide more money for the wealthiest monolithic organization there is that is already getting tax breaks, has them doubting themselves, “steals” their integrity and time with their families, and virtually “traps” them so that they can’t get out without losing their family and friends.) It hurts others around them too. Lies become common place. Don’t know what or who can be trusted all the time or whatever. Truth is suddenly subjective. But the absolute worst thing the LDS organization does is to separate their innocent members from God. Rotten fruit.

Good grief! If you knew (for a fact) that your brother, or sister was heading into a hurtful situation, wouldn’t you do what you could to point that out? Isn’t that what love is about?

 

[BfloPolska]

The lds church has a powerful message and a powerful beginning. Those who received a witness of the book of mormon and turn away seem not to be able to leave the lds church alone. The church that they once loved seems to turn to hate. Sad and not very christian.

As a “Jack Mormon” who left the LDS, I suppose I can offer some small reasoning. This is only based on my experience in a particular congregation with a stern bishop (clergyman in charge of a single congregation.)

It is very hard to psychologically break from the LDS. One becomes dependent upon the sense of community that is often fostered. Some break off friendships with non-Mormons and when one leaves, it is a deep and nasty cut. One is cut off from that which has anchored him, even if anchored in the wrong port. I think the hostility is a sense of purging. I will agree that it’s not very Christian most of the time. I am guilty of having had a certain superiority complex when I left too. I am also glad to say that after counseling and a lot of inner work I’ve come to peace with the LDS and the individual right to religion I enjoy in this country.

Blessed be,
Polska

 

[ronald_g_w]

By their fruits indeed.

May I ask why you don’t list a religion in your profile, Ronald?

's charity,

All are welcome to any civilian wedding but you are refering to a Temple wedding, yes I am sorry but one needs to be a member in good standing to attend, all I can say is that one day you will understand
[/quote]
[/QUOTE]

 

[hosemonkey]

All are welcome to any civilian wedding but you are refering to a Temple wedding, yes I am sorry but one needs to be a member in good standing to attend, all I can say is that one day you will understand

ANY religion that does not practice full disclosure before a baptism commitment is made, is bogus. Why do your “missionaries” not tell prospects about “exaltation”, temple “endowment”, Joseph Smith’s primacy over Christ Himself and the dismal history of your founder? mormonism is fundamentally dishonest about what it believes and teaches, and many times you cannot get agreement by ordinary mormons on actually WHAT the mormon organization teaches. They deny that the Old Men in Salt Lake City is any kind of “Magesterium”, so who calls the shots? And why relatives are not admitted to pseudo-masonic rituals because they are “sacred” won’t feed the bulldog.

 

[ronald_g_w]

Don’t you know? Hurt my children and you do it to me! I have also known other famlies that have are still heartbroken by what the LDS have done and I have personally seen and experienced the rotten fruit that the LDS produces.

Like I said it is rotten fruit. It hurts the members (they are lied to, worked unbearably to provide more money for the wealthiest monolithic organization there is that is already getting tax breaks, has them doubting themselves, “steals” their integrity and time with their families, and virtually “traps” them so that they can’t get out without losing their family and friends.) It hurts others around them too. Lies become common place. Don’t know what or who can be trusted all the time or whatever. Truth is suddenly subjective. But the absolute worst thing the LDS organization does is to separate their innocent members from God. Rotten fruit.

Good grief! If you knew (for a fact) that your brother, or sister was heading into a hurtful situation, wouldn’t you do what you could to point that out? Isn’t that what love is about?

I Don’t know, What?
I’ve been a LDS for 25 years and I have not a clue what you are saying, I must have blinkers on Lies ? Traped ? I have never seen or heard anything remotely like what you are saying, are we talking about the same Church ? The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints.

 

[ronald_g_w]

ANY religion that does not practice full disclosure before a baptism commitment is made, is bogus. Why do your “missionaries” not tell prospects about “exaltation”, temple “endowment”, Joseph Smith’s primacy over Christ Himself and the dismal history of your founder? mormonism is fundamentally dishonest about what it believes and teaches, and many times you cannot get agreement by ordinary mormons on actually WHAT the mormon organization teaches. They deny that the Old Men in Salt Lake City is any kind of “Magesterium”, so who calls the shots? And why relatives are not admitted to pseudo-masonic rituals because they are “sacred” won’t feed the bulldog.

For your info: I’ve been invited on ocassions to visit an investigator with the missionaries, where the investigators have asked questions on many of the subjects you claim they hide, and they have given as honest an answer as they could and if they do not know they have said and have endevored to find an answer so please nothing is hidden.

 

[majick275]

For your info: I’ve been invited on ocassions to visit an investigator with the missionaries, where the investigators have asked questions on many of the subjects you claim they hide, and they have given as honest an answer as they could and if they do not know they have said and have endevored to find an answer so please nothing is hidden.

aah the dallin oaks legalese. yes we are aware that many who have only been exposed to post 1978 mormonism are oblivious to the doctrines, teachings and practices of the past (that have not been denonced or even “corrected”). stop getting everything from the whitewashed faith promoting rumors and revisionist history books they sell at deseret these days and look into the LDS writings that told the truth (even when it wasn’t very useful) and then maybe you will see why they “don’t know that we emphasize that” anymore.

try reading the original documentary history of the church, the journal of discourses, the teachings of the prophet joseph smith and then move up to answers to gospel questions and doctrines of salvations. a quick read of the seer (very important to read it’s intro by the first presidency) and mormon doctrine are helpful if you place them in context by reading what was “corrected” in them. then look at the changes made to D&C over the years, especially which sections were removed…and why. What you find may enlighten you. and be very thankful if you never had to do the pre-1990 endowment.

 

[AMDGtoo]

For your info: I’ve been invited on ocassions to visit an investigator with the missionaries, where the investigators have asked questions on many of the subjects you claim they hide, and they have given as honest an answer as they could and if they do not know they have said and have endevored to find an answer so please nothing is hidden.

Oh puleeze. Some of the LDS right here on this board don’t know their own history (or that of the Catholic Church that they regularly try to trash).

And I know for a fact that my own daughter’s “jumping ship” was done secretively (and then without very much information about what she was getting into–I just happened to be in a unique position to really know that). It was so bad that even afterward, she couldn’t answer the slightest thing! It was always “Talk to the missionaries”. I did. The young “still wet behind the ears” sets of just-out-of-highschool boys weren’t able to answer either (but I got to hear a real live “testimony” as well as some incorrect things about our Church and I have also been the one to tell one missionary that his future nonLDS inlaws will not be allowed to see their daughter and him wed.) And I still remember daughter’s bishop telling my poor daughter when she had tears in her eyes at her “Open House Wedding Reception” that “I’d ‘come around’, so she wasn’t to even concern herself.” (Well, no, I have no intention of deserting my Lord Jesus Christ for a man.)

Oh, and lest you think that it is just a “one time thing”, I personally know friends who children were also simply “taken” from them by the LDS. Life was forever changed for them.

I have personally observed LDS life. I have seen what happens to family time in the LDS world, and have heard the “well I can’t get out of this “calling” because no one else will take it–I have watched some LDS have to “hide” the fact that they’re drinking coke (and then quickly explain that it’s about “covenants”) or hide the fact that they are wearing shorts (I know that that’s about the Garments)—I have seen"tithing” lists, Primary lessons, food storage for at least a year all over the house, and have seen non-LDS family and close friends “left by the wayside”, and have experienced the “dissing” of non-LDS family–even children! and have heard them crying over it, and I know first hand about the “Bishops Warehouse” and how there are all sorts of “strings attached” to any aid that may be “given”. And I can’t believe that anyone would have chosen all that ifyou all had been “upfront” with “investigators”.

You say that you’ve been LDS for 25 years and haven’t seen what I have, well, if that is the case, may I suggest that either you aren’t looking or you just might be too close to the object to see?

 

[hosemonkey]

Oh puleeze. Some of the LDS right here on this board don’t know their own history (or that of the Catholic Church that they regularly try to trash).

And I know for a fact that my own daughter’s “jumping ship” was done secretively (and then without very much information about what she was getting into–I just happened to be in a unique position to really know that). It was so bad that even afterward, she couldn’t answer the slightest thing! It was always “Talk to the missionaries”. I did. The young “still wet behind the ears” sets of just-out-of-highschool boys weren’t able to answer either (but I got to hear a real live “testimony” as well as some incorrect things about our Church and I have also been the one to tell one missionary that his future nonLDS inlaws will not be allowed to see their daughter and him wed.) And I still

Yeah Mama! Tell it like it is! mormons have their heads so far into the sand that their hind ends are getting sunburned. What did we expect them to say?

 

[hosemonkey]

For your info: I’ve been invited on ocassions to visit an investigator with the missionaries, where the investigators have asked questions on many of the subjects you claim they hide, and they have given as honest an answer as they could

and if they do not know they have said and have endevored to find an answer so please nothing is hidden.

Weasel words.

“ANY religion that does not practice full disclosure before a baptism commitment is made, is bogus. Why do your “missionaries” not tell prospects about “exaltation”, temple “endowment”, Joseph Smith’s primacy over Christ Himself and the dismal history of your founder? mormonism is fundamentally dishonest about what it believes and teaches, and many times you cannot get agreement by ordinary mormons on actually WHAT the mormon organization teaches. They deny that the Old Men in Salt Lake City is any kind of “Magesterium”, so who calls the shots? And why relatives are not admitted to pseudo-masonic rituals because they are “sacred” won’t feed the bulldog.”

You did not address anything except to tell me that your “missionaries” and “investigators” are obviously not in possession of all the facts. Read the above underlined statement. What’s up with that? We have had several mormons on these forums arguing with one another about what mormons DO believe and both of them self-proclaimed “experts” on mormon “theology.” One even has a pathetic blog claiming to present the “facts” about mormonism.

 

[Jerusha]

Even they admit that THEY HAVE NO CONSISTENT THEOLOGY. That is why I don’t argue theology with them.

 

[Ruthie]

Ronald, you said,
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints has nothing to hide, you can find the answer all you have to do is ask and you will be shown where to find it.

OK, Ron, I’m asking. Give *specific *answers and sources, not a general referral like scriptures.lds.org.

What happens at a Temple endowment?

( In the following, I’m quoting Ralph’s questions from a different thread, that never got directly answered.) Yes, or no, with sources, please.

Does the LDS church teach that God lives on a planet? Did it ever?

Does it teach that God was once man? Did it ever?

Does it teach that men can become gods with their own worlds full of spirit children? Did it ever?

Does it teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers? Did it ever?

Does it teach that dark skinned people are cursed by God for being spiritually impure? Did it ever?

The Catholic Church has 100% of its teachings in the public domain. Does the LDS? (I already know the answer to this one from my own researches.)

As for the “milk before meat” business, never did Paul say he was hiding anything. An analogy: we teach first graders addition, not calculus - but they can still look calculus up if they’re interested. It’s not a secret.

Ruthie

 

[scipio337]

What a great thread! JS, zerinus, and rmcmullan all agree, much like the “priests and popes” of the Endowment Ceremony, if you are against the LDS church, you’re working for the devil.

Nice.

 

[ronald_g_w]

aah the dallin oaks legalese. yes we are aware that many who have only been exposed to post 1978 mormonism are oblivious to the doctrines, teachings and practices of the past (that have not been denonced or even “corrected”). stop getting everything from the whitewashed faith promoting rumors and revisionist history books they sell at deseret these days and look into the LDS writings that told the truth (even when it wasn’t very useful) and then maybe you will see why they “don’t know that we emphasize that” anymore.

try reading the original documentary history of the church, the journal of discourses, the teachings of the prophet joseph smith and then move up to answers to gospel questions and doctrines of salvations. a quick read of the seer (very important to read it’s intro by the first presidency) and mormon doctrine are helpful if you place them in context by reading what was “corrected” in them. then look at the changes made to D&C over the years, especially which sections were removed…and why. What you find may enlighten you. and be very thankful if you never had to do the pre-1990 endowment.

Been there done that