Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

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By their fruits indeed.

I find the whole “milk before meat” business to be dishonest. We Catholics have nothing to hide; you can find everything we believe and practice in the Catechism.

We do not shun those who are excommunicated; in fact, we welcome them in our churches. We do not keep non-Catholic family members away from Catholic weddings. That’s charity, Ronald.

Ruthie
The milk before meat business is in the new testament with Paul. See first corinthians chapter 3. It is also located elsewhere in the new testament. You need to take up your problem with the apostle paul.

I do believe that catholics also have something to hide: the history of the catholic church. It wasn’t always so righteous. Not to mention the hidden facts of the priest-abuse scandals before the public outcry.

Excommunicated mormons are encouraged to attend church and be fellowshipped by other members. No one is shunned. You must be thinking of JW’s. But again it was the apostle paul that encouraged excommunication for those who committed grevious sins.

Mormons can also get married in a lds church if so desired. All family members can attend such a ceremony. But many lds choose to get married in the temple, where only people with temple recommends can attend. Even those mormons who can not get a temple recommend can’t attend the wedding ceremony in the temple.
 
Weasel words.
You did not address anything except to tell me that your “missionaries” and “investigators” are obviously not in possession of all the facts. Read the above underlined statement. What’s up with that? We have had several mormons on these forums arguing with one another about what mormons DO believe and both of them self-proclaimed “experts” on mormon “theology.” One even has a pathetic blog claiming to present the “facts” about mormonism.
People are people. Do you really think that catholics know well what their church teaches? I don’t think so. Most people are unaware of doctrine. My young catholic boyhood conception of the devil was rather familiar: he was a red man with a tail and horns who breathed fire. Heaven was a place with angels with wings, with some playing harps with cherubs possessing little arrows of love. And all were sitting on clouds with me somewhere there. 🙂
 
My young catholic boyhood conception of the devil was rather familiar: he was a red man with a tail and horns who breathed fire. Heaven was a place with angels with wings, with some playing harps with cherubs possessing little arrows of love. And all were sitting on clouds with me somewhere there. 🙂
That’s the secular culture–what’s presented in cartoons and all. You are confusing the secular culture with Catholic. And that has nothing to do with “doctrine”. As once a CCD teacher (think Sunday School teacher), I can assure you that was not taught.
 
The milk before meat business is in the new testament with Paul. See first corinthians chapter 3. It is also located elsewhere in the new testament. You need to take up your problem with the apostle paul.

I do believe that catholics also have something to hide: the history of the catholic church. It wasn’t always so righteous. Not to mention the hidden facts of the priest-abuse scandals before the public outcry.

Excommunicated mormons are encouraged to attend church and be fellowshipped by other members. No one is shunned. You must be thinking of JW’s. But again it was the apostle paul that encouraged excommunication for those who committed grevious sins.

Mormons can also get married in a lds church if so desired. All family members can attend such a ceremony. But many lds choose to get married in the temple, where only people with temple recommends can attend. Even those mormons who can not get a temple recommend can’t attend the wedding ceremony in the temple.
Why is it when people seem to be losing a footing in their argument, they always fall back on the “priest scandal”? That subject has been discussed and discussed and discussed, and as statistics have shown, a person is more likely to be abused by a family member, or a member of protestant clergy than by a catholic priest. Please try and find a different issue to divert the conversation to.

As for as the history of the Catholic church not being so righteous…if you’re talking about the “inquisition”, at least the same consistant story has been told about the inquisition for hundreds of years…can the same be said about mormon history?

How many versions of the First Vision are there? What’s the true story of Mountain Meadows? Need I go on?

The history of the Catholic church may not be perfect, but then again, no individual or institution’s history is. But at least ours has been consistant.
 
Ruthie;4193350:
Firstly anyone can attend the Temple as long as they adhere to the requirements of the Lord, they are His requirements and not ours, so based on this it is unrealistic for anyone to ask us to share with them things that are sacred to us. One may ridicule this but it is what the Lord has stipulated. What I feel comfortable shareing with you is that in the endowment I have made higher covenants with God. I no this is not the answer that you are fishing for.
The temple “endowment” does not come from the LORD. The temple endowment is a product of the imagination of Joseph Smith, who copied it from Blue Lodge Freemasonry. It has been changed many times, unlike for example, the Ten Commandments, which were REALLY handed down from God. The temple endowment is readily available on the Internet, and consists mainly of pseudo-masonic buffoonery. For example, the apron as “The emblem of Satan’s Powers and Priesthoods.” So what do you mormons do? Of course, tie on an apron. Doesn’t that make you wonder, just a little bit?
Do you believe that those who are rightious and live according to the true teachings of JESUS CHRIST will return to live with the Father and Son. If you do you must then believe what the Savior said that the Meek will inherit the EARTH ? IF the meek are not amongst those who are rightious then I am barking up the wrong tree, BUT we know they are so if they are to inherit this EARTH and be with the Father and Son then does it mean that God will Live on a planet? of course it does! God lives on a Celestial sphere in younder heavens who’s Glory is being tipical of the sun.
That is no answer. Does “god” live on a planet near the star Kolob, as taught in mormon doctrine? Yes or no.
Without going to my libary as far as I can recall two Prophets have spoken on this subject one specificaly stating words along the line of "as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become. If a prophet of God taught this principle then your answer is yes. We are told to become perfect like our Father in Heaven. IF we do reach that state where does it put us.
Read these scriptures.
Ps 82:1
GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Ps 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Ps 86:8
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
Ps 136:2
give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
1 Cor 8:5
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1 Cor 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I do believe the above scriptures will answer this question.
No answer, sorry.
Let me answer it in this way, we know that satan took one third of the hosts of heaven with him when he was cast out by Michael and the faithful. That one third were the spirit children of our Heavenly Father, therefor the two thirds left behind were us the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. This then leaves JESUS and satan and we know that JESUS is a son of God, who then was satan, a strange god just visiting, NO he is also a son of God, that makes him our brother and a brother of JESUS CHRIST
That is blasphemy.
Yes it is in our scriptures. What was the curse of Cane ?
2 Ne. 5: 21
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
2 Ne. 26: 33
33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.
So the racist doctrine of mormonism is practiced on the citation of a false document, ie: Book of Mormon. So why did the Old Men in Salt Lake City change this doctrine which was “handed down from God?”
Just like you we teach 1 + 2 and if you want to know which planet is nearest to God we will point you in the right direction so you can find the answer for yourself, and when you do the light shines brighter and it is glorious
Horsefeathers.
 
Ruthie;4193350:
Firstly anyone can attend the Temple as long as they adhere to the requirements of the Lord, they are His requirements and not ours,
Oh come on–the requirements are in the form of a temple recommend that a layman issues after asking the person applying for one a bunch of questions–have you tithed for a year?–do you have close associations with apostates or non-LDS?–have you kept the Word of Wisdom?–as well as other questions. I have seen one of the recommends–it’s like a credit card. And if a person does not have that temple recommend card (he didn’t pass the interrogation), he is unable to enter the temple whether he is a Mormon or a non-Mormon.
 
My first post is in blue; Ronald’s answers are in italic; my current post is in black.

What happens at a Temple endowment?

Firstly anyone can attend the Temple as long as they adhere to the requirements of the Lord, …

What are the requirements for secrecy, and where are they found? Anyone can attend Mass.and find out what the Mass consists of.
  • I no this is not the answer that you are fishing for.*
I’ll admit it was a trick question.

Does the LDS church teach that God lives on a planet? Did it ever?

(snipped for brevity) * the Savior said that the Meek will inherit the EARTH ? … does it mean that God will Live on a planet? of course it does! *

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God lived or lives on the earth, or any planet. He was in existence before the earth was made. See Genesis 1:1.

Does it teach that God was once man? Did it ever?

"as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become.” If a [Mormon] prophet of God taught this principle then your answer is yes.

A “yes or no” answer! Thank you!

Does it teach that men can become gods with their own worlds full of spirit children? Did it ever?

I do believe the [below] scriptures will answer this question.

I’ve seen this collection of verses before, put together to prove the Mormon contention.

Ps 82:1, 6
GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. (Ps 82:7-8, KJV)

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


The context here is that the Jews are denying Him as the “I Am” and Son of God. He says, “if you don’t believe me, believe your sacred writings.” The Jews would remember the whole psalm, including the ending. They would also remember this passage in Isaiah: “Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together. Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. (Isaiah 41:23-24, KJV)

Ps 86:8
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.
Ps 136:2
give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.


When those psalms were written, Israel was surrounded by pagan countries with pagan gods. The point of the Psalmist is that God was then (and is still) the real God, above all the false pagan ones.

1 Cor 8:5-6
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Paul is talking about idols, not about Christian beliefs. The RSV (and putting it into context) makes it a little more clear:

Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth – as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords” – yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Cor 8:4-6 (RSV)

Does it teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers? Did it ever?

the hosts of heaven … were the spirit children of our Heavenly Father … we know that JESUS is a son of God, who then was satan … he is also a son of God, that makes him our brother and a brother of JESUS CHRIST

I’ll grant you that the question implies a distorted view of what Mormons believe. But could you, please, refer me to the source for the angels being God’s “spirit children?” I searched the phrase at scripture.lds.org and couldn’t find it.

Does it teach that dark skinned people are cursed by God for being spiritually impure? Did it ever? Yes it is in our scriptures.

Do you know that this is the first time I have seen a straight “yes or no” answer on this from a Mormon? Thank you. Seriously.

Can you address how it happened that dark-skinned men are now allowed to be in the LDS priesthood? (Bet you knew that one was coming!)

Quote:
The Catholic Church has 100% of its teachings in the public domain. Does the LDS? (I already know the answer to this one from my own researches.)
*You Know the answer
*
Yes, I do. I got it at scripture.lds.org, when I saw that it contained only “selections” from the Book of Moses, from Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible.

Thank you very much for respecting me enough to answer those questions. Other LDS on these forums have either ignored them, or begun to answer and then changed the subject. I appreciate you, Ronald!

Ruthie
 
Firstly anyone can attend the Temple as long as they adhere to the requirements of the Lord,
Or lie about it in their temple interview. :rolleyes: Why do you think they put padlocks on the lockers in the temple?
 
Those are for the evil apostates.
Hold on a minute! How did those evil apostates get a temple recommend in the first place? Those granted the recommends aren’t even supposed to associate with apostates.
 
Hold on a minute! How did those evil apostates get a temple recommend in the first place? Those granted the recommends aren’t even supposed to associate with apostates.
Please, it’s obvious that a true, practicing, Mormon is a good person and never commits any crime. Therefore, anyone doing any thievery from Mormon lockers in a Mormon temple must be an apostate! And they lied to get into the temple, just so they could steal from the good Mormon people. And they did it just because they are so angry and bitter at “the church”.

😛
 
Please, it’s obvious that a true, practicing, Mormon is a good person and never commits any crime. Therefore, anyone doing any thievery from Mormon lockers in a Mormon temple must be an apostate! And they lied to get into the temple, just so they could steal from the good Mormon people. And they did it just because they are so angry and bitter at “the church”.

😛
Mormons believe that their bishops have “the gift of discernment”, which means they can always tell if you are lying to them. So why can people lie their way through a temple recommend interview? :ehh:
 
Oh come on–the requirements are in the form of a temple recommend that a layman issues after asking the person applying for one a bunch of questions–have you tithed for a year?–do you have close associations with apostates or non-LDS?–have you kept the Word of Wisdom?–as well as other questions. I have seen one of the recommends–it’s like a credit card. And if a person does not have that temple recommend card (he didn’t pass the interrogation), he is unable to enter the temple whether he is a Mormon or a non-Mormon.
By having a recomend does that mean it is wrong or having to fill certain requirements ??? May I remind you that in order for you to return to live with your Heavenly Father you have to fill certain requirements, Mentaly, Physicaly and Spiritualy or it just aint going to happen The Gospel of JESUS CHRIST is all about forfilling requirements
Are their no requirements in order to be confirmed in the Catholic Church ? or to becomming a member ?
 
The temple “endowment” does not come from the LORD. The temple endowment is a product of the imagination of Joseph Smith, who copied it from Blue Lodge Freemasonry. It has been changed many times, unlike for example, the Ten Commandments, which were REALLY handed down from God. The temple endowment is readily available on the Internet, and consists mainly of pseudo-masonic buffoonery. For example, the apron as “The emblem of Satan’s Powers and Priesthoods.” So what do you mormons do? Of course, tie on an apron. Doesn’t that make you wonder, just a little bit?

That is no answer. Does “god” live on a planet near the star Kolob, as taught in mormon doctrine? Yes or no.

No answer, sorry.

That is blasphemy.

So the racist doctrine of mormonism is practiced on the citation of a false document, ie: Book of Mormon. So why did the Old Men in Salt Lake City change this doctrine which was “handed down from God?”

Horsefeathers.
You are intitled to your own opinion and your own belief so unless you have recieved personal revelation on the endowment, Book of Mormon and the Revelations the Old Men in Salt Lake City recieve (who happen to hold the keys of the Kingdom) you can not make the statements that you have, you have also set aside the scriptures quoted. I thing you just have an axe to grind ?
 
You are intitled to your own opinion and your own belief so unless you have recieved personal revelation on the endowment, Book of Mormon and the Revelations
the Old Men in Salt Lake City recieve (who happen to hold the keys of the Kingdom)
you can not make the statements that you have, you have also set aside the scriptures quoted. I thing you just have an axe to grind ?

I have received a personal revelation that mormonism is false and that the Holy Catholic Church IS the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded and is the True Religion. Only Peter and his lawful successors hold the Keys to the Kingdom, not the Old Men in Salt Lake City, who are imposters.
 
I have received a personal revelation that mormonism is false and that the Holy Catholic Church IS the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded and is the True Religion. Only Peter and his lawful successors hold the Keys to the Kingdom, not the Old Men in Salt Lake City, who are imposters.
👍
 
Ronald, you asked,
Are their no requirements in order to be confirmed in the Catholic Church ? or to becomming a member ?

As for knowledge, you are expected to learn what the Church teaches. For adults, this is usually through RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults). The basic texts are the Bible and the Catechism, both of which are available for free online.

The Sacraments one must have prior to Confirmation are Baptism, Reconciliation (confession), and receiving the Holy Eucharist (communion). The only one not done in public is confession, because what you confess is between you, the priest, and God. All the other sacraments are public. Anyone is welcome to attend, Catholic or not.

There are **no **requirements to tithe, do missionary work, give any of your time to the Church (outside of Mass attendance), or anything else that I have not written above, to become a church member.

Hope this helps,

Ruthie
 
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