Why are 20% of Nobel Prize winners Jewish?

[kch86]

Hi Khalid.

The Letter to the Romans 11:1-25:
“I now ask: Has God then rejected His People? Absolutely not. I myself am Israelite, of the line of Abraham, the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His People, whom he has first accepted. (…) But if some of the branches have been broken off and you, who are the branch of a wild olive tree, have been crafted in among the branches (on the noble olive tree) and also receive the moisture from the root of the* real tree*, do not become arrogant * remember its not you who carry the root but the root that carries you. *(… ) a blindness/hardness id resting over part of Israel until the gentiles have come in in full numbers, Then all of Israel will be saved.
Regarding the Gospel they are enemies, and they are so for your sake, but regarding the ELECTION they are loved, and they are so for the sake of the Fathers. For God does not regret His promises and calling”. (my translation)

The binding writings from the councils rest on these words, and for that reason the jewish people and its continual special role in Salvation History is recognised and the Jewish people are given the noble title: Our older brothers in the faith.

There have been many who were jealous of this election throughout history.

The Jews who accepted the Messiah are the remnant that Paul speaks of. And these Jews who accept the Messiah remain as God’s chosen people. However, the pagans who have accepted Christ too can participate in this “chosen-ness,” and you will see that he mentions the Gentiles as being grafted onto the olive tree that represents the chosen people, to take the place of those Jews who have have “broken off” from the tree through their rejection of the Messiah.

(Here’s a link to Romans 10, 11 and 12 for perusal)

There is nothing there to suggest the continued election of those Jews who have rejected the Messiah. Romans 11 clearly says that Gentiles can participate in the election of the Jewish remnant by replacing those who have broken off. In fact, it cautions the Gentiles about becoming arrogant about this. So there is nothing there to suggest a difference between a Christian Jew and a Christian Gentile.

Roman 10:11-12 in fact states, “As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him”

The Jews remained God’s chosen people insofar as they haven’t rejected him by rejecting the Messiah.

The Gentiles become God’s chosen people when they accept the Messiah.

Those who reject Jesus Christ are in the same situation, be they Jewish, pagan or Muslim. They have either broken off the olive tree, the true faith if they were Jewish at the time of Christ and rejected Him, or they were never part of it, like the Jews, pagans and Muslims of today.

Romans 11 clearly supports the plain wording of Church documents and neither seem to match your private interpretation.

 

[Khalid]

The definition of a Jew under the law of return is not the definition of a Jew under Jewish law. It is the definition of a Jew under Nazi Germany. It is the lesson learned when the world closed their borders to the Jews (see: the United States and the ship the St. Louis, see Canada and “no Jews are too many Jews”’ see Britain and the 1939 White Paper for Palestine etc. as well as the behavior of the world after the Holocaust and their refusal to accept the survivors, how Jews continued to rot in internment camps, Kielce Poland, the non reunification of rescued Jewish children back to their Jewish families etc.). The law promises that any “Jew” has a place of refuge, Israel insures that this will never be allowed to happen again.

One of many reasons I support the State of Israel (as I’ve mentioned, for social and political reasons, not religious ones - Israel has no more religious validity or right to exist than any other state) although I’ve often thought it was an underhanded play by Western anti-Semites to get the Jews out of their own country and over to the middle of nowhere.

Being raised in Egypt, I was exposed to rabid, rabid, rabid anti-Semitism and outright Jew-hatred, but by the grace of God it always seemed what it was to me - irrational poison, maybe because I come from another hated minority in Egypt myself. By the time I was born, I don’t remember in my life ever seeing a Jew before I left Egypt (they were some sort of exotic and very dangerous and hated quasi-human animal who lived on conspiracy, power, money, and the blood of gentile children, and were stupid enough to let the world see their Protocols, is much of the standard teaching) - all of the Islamic states kicked them out by force or threat right after World War II - and now that I have learned more history (and read the Bible), the Jews have an ancient and noble - if not outright intellectually and culturally commanding - history throughout Egypt’s history, all the way in to the time of the Lord in Philo of Alexandria, and for hundreds, if not thousands, of years after.

Look at Israel: it has, in 60 years, become a nation among nations, an industrial and scientific powerhouse. Not even the United States rose so quickly. The “Palestinians” and Islamists have done nothing but kill themselves in vain attempts (sometimes not so vain, as Israel has quite the policy of appeasement and giving back territory that is rightfully its own due to unjust foreign aggression, as that won - when a small army of Jews routed a coalition of virtually every Middle Eastern Islamic state and their best armies, to the point where the Egyptian broadcasters were claiming that England had secretly flown in platoons of men and dozens of their best pilots and aeroplanes - in 1967) to impose their religion, or to merely express hatred, as the famous hadith says, “in the end times a Jew will hide behind a rock, and the rock will say, ‘there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him’” - the philosophy of anti-Semite anti-Zionist conspiracy theorists everywhere.

And, because the Israelis are damn brave. They act as a mediating influence and a wall or buffer for Europe against the Islamist hordes. And they suffer it for a small bit of their ancestral land, and do the world a service.

 

[Jerusha]

the famous hadith says, “in the end times a Jew will hide behind a rock, and the rock will say, ‘there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him’” - the philosophy of anti-Semite anti-Zionist conspiracy theorists everywhere.

I was not aware of that. Sometimes it takes a while to acculturate to a new system of belief. Too bad you got mixed up in another anti-Semitic religion in the meanwhile.

BTW, I did glean a lot of stuff from the D&C, all it was missing was the prefaces.

For those members unaquainted with the JD, let’s first seek the inspired counsel from the Prophets and Apostles of god lest anyone be led astray:

The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.
*President George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Vol.8. *

1. Each successive Volume of these Discourses is a rich mine of wealth, containing gems of great value, and the diligent seeker will find ample reward for his labor. After the fathers and mothers of this generation have made them the study of their lives their children’s children will find that they are still unexhausted, and rejoice that this Record has been handed down from their fathers to also aid them in following the way of life.
   Apostle Orson Pratt, Preface. Volume 3.

It is impossible to give monetary value to the past volumes of this publication, … Those who read the utterances of the servants of God, contained in this book, under the same influence by which the speakers were inspired, cannot fail to receive profit from the perusal.
President Joseph F. Smith, Preface, Vol.18.

We take great pleasure in presenting to the Saints and the world the … the JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, which they will find contains rich treasures of information concerning **the glorious principles of Eternal Life, as revealed through God’s anointed servants **in these last days. All who read the discourses contained in this Volume are earnestly recommended to adapt them to their lives by practice, and we can confidently assure them that, in doing so, they are laying up a store of knowledge that will save and exalt them in the Celestial kingdom.
Apostle Albert Carrington, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Vol. 15.

mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22768&p=561444#p561444
**

 

[Khalid]

"The time of judgment will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry to the Muslim, "There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!” – Sahih Muslim 41:6985 (6981-6985 are all repetitions with slight variations of this.)

"Muslims will fight with the Jews until they will hide behind stones. The stones will say, “O Slave of Allah! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.” – Sahih Bukhari 4:52:177 (with several repetitions).

That a hadith was reported by both of the Sahihayn (“the two trustworthy sources”) out of the six canonical collections and the nine major collections (the six canonical ones plus the Musnad of Imam Hanbal, the Muwatta of Imam Malik, and Sunan al Darimi) makes it agreed-upon and religiously binding in belief upon all Muslims. Only about 800 unique ahadith out of over 15,000 that are considered sahih or some variation thereof (hasan, musnad, muttasil isnad), and not munkar, daeef, shaydhdh, mudhtharib, or mawdu (i.e. bunk). Including the invalid and weak ahadith, there’s a corpus of about a hundred thousand.

Yeah, I kept all of my books of ahadith and religious law - I was looking to become a faqih for a while, and know the regulations of ritual prayer [salah] in excruciating detail, as it was the area I focused on, jurisprudence of prayer - an entire specialization such as “contract law” unto itself.) It’s not on the internet that I can tell - the standard place is the USC-MSA CMT - but all I could find were censures and warnings that resulted in them removing it.

What other anti-Semitic religion did I get involved in? Mormonism? The anti-Semitism wasn’t played up in my sight today, and from my attitudes, it should be obvious that I’m not an anti-Semite: I just believe the Jews have an incomplete (although not entirely false) religion, with a covenant that is invalid since the fall of the Temple (and I support Israel and am a political Zionist, if there is such a thing). This makes me an anti-Semite nor more than I am an anti-Hindu or anti-Buddhist, as those peoples have absolutely no validity in their religion - not just incompleteness.

I think from reading my posts on this forum that I’m much more of an anti-Islamist than an anti-Anything Else.

 

[Jerusha]

Mormonism? The anti-Semitism wasn’t played up in my sight today,

From my studies, it has its roots in profoundly anti-Semitic ideas. It has just been hidden since the Holocaust.

 

[po18guy]

I think from reading my posts on this forum that I’m much more of an anti-Islamist than an anti-Anything Else.

I would imagine that you have read Fr. James Schall’s article on the fragility of Islam?

 

[Khalid]

No, I haven’t - thank you for pointing it out. Do you have any other Catholic or other Christian sources or documents that discuss similarly? I have read very little anti-Muslim literature, as most of it was done by coming through to my own conclusions being worked out in “fear and trembling”, although I’ve read the standards (Why I Am Not A Muslim), and read some of Robert Spencer’s writing in my capacity as an Islamic apologist (for the note, he may be disliked, but I encountered no major factual inaccuracy in any of his books).

 

[jakasaki]

I would imagine that you have read Fr. James Schall’s article on the fragility of Islam?

Excellent article.!1

 

[jakasaki]

No, I haven’t - thank you for pointing it out. Do you have any other Catholic or other Christian sources or documents that discuss similarly? I have read very little anti-Muslim literature, as most of it was done by coming through to my own conclusions being worked out in “fear and trembling”, although I’ve read the standards (Why I Am Not A Muslim), and read some of Robert Spencer’s writing in my capacity as an Islamic apologist (for the note, he may be disliked, but I encountered no major factual inaccuracy in any of his books).

Have you read St. John of Damascus written in the 8th century regarding islam…?

 

[BlindManWalking]

islamichistorymonth.com/education/nobel.php

Meanwhile, Islam apparently claims 8 total, of which, 2 are a total joke in their categories- Sadat and Arafat.

The others who won peace prizes tend to do so at the expense of Quranic Islam, particularly the Iranian lawyer.

Given the large amount of Muslims in the world today compared to the much smaller Jewish population, this indeed seems like a rather disparate reality. What gives?

Literature, eh. Chemistry… now there’s a category I can get behind (despite not understanding a lick of it, I understand its importance). Chemistry is also scientific and not subject to subjective judging as it is testable.

Who can test peace or read every book written? These categories, to me, are a bit of a joke anyway. So basically, in the realm of science, Muslims claim one dude with a Nobel prize.

Hrmph.

L’chaim!

 

[po18guy]

No, I haven’t - thank you for pointing it out. Do you have any other Catholic or other Christian sources or documents that discuss similarly? I have read very little anti-Muslim literature, as most of it was done by coming through to my own conclusions being worked out in “fear and trembling”, although I’ve read the standards (Why I Am Not A Muslim), and read some of Robert Spencer’s writing in my capacity as an Islamic apologist (for the note, he may be disliked, but I encountered no major factual inaccuracy in any of his books).

To date, I think that his view on the nature of the religion may be a unique one. An interesting parallel, since both systems are aimed at world domination - ultimately for the sake of man. I perceive that Islam would have no further reason to exist once world domination and subjection were achieved. Its purpose seems to be the war, and when it is won, it would, of necessity, turn upon itself. We have already observed that in some limited cases.

 

[jakasaki]

No, I haven’t - thank you for pointing it out. Do you have any other Catholic or other Christian sources or documents that discuss similarly? I have read very little anti-Muslim literature, as most of it was done by coming through to my own conclusions being worked out in “fear and trembling”, although I’ve read the standards (Why I Am Not A Muslim), and read some of Robert Spencer’s writing in my capacity as an Islamic apologist (for the note, he may be disliked, but I encountered no major factual inaccuracy in any of his books).

arabicbible.com/for-muslims.html

Scroll down a few inches and look to the left. There are a few sub-menus for you review.

 

[Khalid]

Have you read St. John of Damascus written in the 8th century regarding islam…?

Yes, “Surah of the Camel”.

 

[jakasaki]

Yes, “Surah of the Camel”.

No… I was talking about this:

orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Quite interesting… Please, when you have a moment do read it…!

 

[jakasaki]

Yes, “Surah of the Camel”.

But I do know what you are talking about here. That info was from another site. I just gave you the whole thing to read in my previous post.

 

[BlindManWalking]

No… I was talking about this:

orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Quite interesting… Please, when you have a moment do read it…!

I think he was just referencing the same thing in regards to the fact that the Surah of the Camel (properly the Camel of God) doesn’t exist in “modern” Qurans, i.e. the Quran has changed and is incomplete.

St. John’s station in life allowed him access to the cream of the crop and yet, this Camel of God exists nowhere but in history.

Such an issue presents a problem for people like Kouyate who insist of its perfection and completeness.

 

[Khalid]

No… I was talking about this:

orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Quite interesting… Please, when you have a moment do read it…!

Oh no, I’ve read it and more in the Early Church Fathers. The most memorable part of it is when he talks about the Surah of the Camel and tells the story of it, a part of the “unchanging” Koran that was lost or removed (along with the verse prescribing stoning) as part of “eradicatory naskh”. That, and when he asks, “Everything you do needs two witnesses… you won’t even take a **** without two witnesses… what witnesses did Muhammad have?”

Kouyate is a sad story. It looks like he is living my intellectual and religious life in reverse.

I have a website, www.suralikeit.com, where the challenge to make a surah like one in the Koran - a challenge given by Allah himself supposedly - is given, as proof of the Koran’s divinity, that no one could write one like it. Surat have been written that many believe sound just as good as the real thing (I certainly do believe it), and carry meaning as much as the Koran, thus beating the challenge and disproving it. It even has the tell-tale case and perspective changes of the Koran. I have recited parts of it to Muslims (while in a cab - stereotypical), and several have asked what part of the Koran it is.

 

[jakasaki]

Oh no, I’ve read it and more in the Early Church Fathers. The most memorable part of it is when he talks about the Surah of the Camel and tells the story of it, a part of the “unchanging” Koran that was lost or removed (along with the verse prescribing stoning) as part of “eradicatory naskh”. That, and when he asks, “Everything you do needs two witnesses… you won’t even take a **** without two witnesses… what witnesses did Muhammad have?”

Kouyate is a sad story. It looks like he is living my intellectual and religious life in reverse.

This from PO18Guy’s link:

**Scholars, mostly German, have been working quietly for many decades to produce a critical edition of the Koran that takes into consideration the “pre-history” of the Koran.

Due to the Muslim belief that any effort to question the Koran’s text is blasphemy, the enterprise is fraught with personal risk to the researchers.

The idea that the text cannot be investigated, of course, only feeds suspicion that even Muslims worry about its integrity. **

 

[jakasaki]

Sorry folks… we went from Jewish Nobel Prize winners to the koran and islam.



I will stop posting off topic - my apologies

 

[Khalid]

It seems partially on topic - the Jewish question and the Muslim question are inextricably connected today, due to the genocidal Jew-hatred teachings of Islam. And, the fact that they are most directly in competition, and ten million Jews have won fifty times more Nobel Prizes than one and one-half billion Muslims.