Why are guardian angels usually hidden?

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As I said, if God chooses not to reveal why, then it remains a mystery.

You shouldn’t presume that. Most visions come BEFORE the person does something wondrous.

(Eg. Moses and the burning bush;
Joseph, Mary, Zechariah, Elizabeth;
children at Fatima;
Padre Pio;…)
So how can we help but be frustrated/sad to find that we have such a passionate desire to help people but not the resources. I don’t want belief so I can have belief or feel happy; I want belief so I can spark hope and faith in others. If I get out the defibrillator to treat an accident victim and find that the paddles were not charged by the last person to use them . . .
 
I have read some interesting work on the hiddenness of God—some insightful and some not. Even then, though, those arguments do not seem to apply to our guardian angels as well. If their role is to watch over us and watch out for us, why would they also resist our prayerful requests for visions or visitations? Aquinas made a good argument that they can affect our senses and our dreams just as they can influence our will.

To use a couple of analogies to get talk up and going: imagine how much slower and sloppier it would be to have a babysitter or a math tutor who never spoke to you or answered any of your questions.
Maybe someone has already said this, but being invisible is their natural state, just as being visible is our natural state. How often does God allow us to be invisible to achieve some noble purpose. Not often, from my experience. 😃 So why would it be odd that God does not let them become visible very often?

Another thing, God is invisible in his natural state. How often does he allow himself to be seen? You could argue that it would save a lot of souls, but then, you must concede that the All-Knowing God knows best.

But it is an interesting question, and I guess the answer is, no one knows.

Your babysitter example recalled a spiritual director I once had. He never said anything. He just listened to me. After a while I stopped seeing him. It seemed he was not doing me any good. Now, I wonder if I was right? He may have been the best spiritual director ever. How can we know? It’s a cliche, but God does work in mysterious ways.
 
So how can we help but be frustrated/sad to find that we have such a passionate desire to help people but not the resources. I don’t want belief so I can have belief or feel happy; I want belief so I can spark hope and faith in others. If I get out the defibrillator to treat an accident victim and find that the paddles were not charged by the last person to use them . . .
:confused: I don’t understand what angelic apparitions have to do with whether or not people can “have belief or feel happy”. Our faith and happiness should be based on God and His promise of eternal salvation if we follow His will. If you/they do this, they’ll have their “passionate desire” to see their guardian angel fulfilled when they enter heaven.

Faith in God is not based on angelic apparitions and neither is our eternal salvation dependent on whether or not we have seen our guardian angel while we are here on earth. If you want to “help people”, teach them about Jesus Christ and the salvation He obtained for us. God has provided the resources you need in order to do that: His strengthening graces and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
??? Do not understand what angelic apparitions have to do with whether or not people can “have belief or feel happy”. Our faith and happiness should be based on God and His promise of eternal salvation if we follow His will. If you/they do this, they’ll have their “passionate desire” to see their guardian angel fulfilled when they enter heaven.

Faith in God is not based on angelic apparitions and neither is our eternal salvation dependent on whether or not we have seen our guardian angel while we are here on earth. If you want to “help people”, teach them about Jesus Christ and the salvation He obtained for us. God has provided the resources you need in order to do that: His strengthening graces and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Some of us are Doubting Thomas. If you have the gift of faith that is strong and fire-breathing without needing to put your hands in the wounds, then you are blessed. Such faith is a gift and I cannot earn it through my own actions, all I can do is offer up my constant prayer for such crutches as a slow learner like me might need.

Do you think Thomas should be considered a saint even though he needed evidence even after all he had seen and heard?
 
Some of us are Doubting Thomas. If you have the gift of faith that is strong and fire-breathing without needing to put your hands in the wounds, then you are blessed. Such faith is a gift and I cannot earn it through my own actions, all I can do is offer up my constant prayer for such crutches as a slow learner like me might need.
I understand doubt (and for me, subsequent loss of faith). If that is what you are experiencing, I achingly empathize.
Without going into a long story, in my agony of doubt and disbelief, I just kept begging God for** His **truth. When the time was right, He answered, and in such a way that I will forever know that the faith He restored (I’m a cradle Catholic) is a gift - and in no way can it’s restoration be credited to my intellect/thinking/reasoning/…

I will keep you in prayer, Neoplatonist. Each one of us is different and God answers us in different ways accordingly. He will answer you in the best and most meaningful way for who you are. Just keep asking Him and searching.
Do you think Thomas should be considered a saint even though he needed evidence even after all he had seen and heard?
Yes.
 
I understand doubt (and for me, subsequent loss of faith). If that is what you are experiencing, I achingly empathize.
Without going into a long story, in my agony of doubt and disbelief, I just kept begging God for** His **truth. When the time was right, He answered, and in such a way that I will forever know that the faith He restored (I’m a cradle Catholic) is a gift - and in no way can it’s restoration be credited to my intellect/thinking/reasoning/…

I will keep you in prayer, Neoplatonist. Each one of us is different and God answers us in different ways accordingly. He will answer you in the best and most meaningful way for who you are. Just keep asking Him and searching.

Yes.
Can someone remind me how to chop a passage into multiple smaller quotes like Nita just did? 😃
 
Can someone remind me how to chop a passage into multiple smaller quotes like Nita just did? 😃
When you click on “Quote” at the bottom of a post, you’ll notice that when the passage you’re responding to comes up, it is enclosed in a bracketed QUOTE at the start and a bracketed /QUOTE (slash QUOTE) at the end.
Each separated quote section must start with a **bracketed QUOTE **and end with a bracketed /QUOTE.

When you want to chop the full post text, type in a bracketed /QUOTE at the point where you want to cut in. Then type in your response.

To go on to the next portion of the post you’re responding to, remember to be sure it begins with a bracketed QUOTE and ends with a bracketed /QUOTE.

Pays to hit the Preview Post and check out whether you’ve done it right.

Wish I could have actually typed the brackets with the word QUOTE, but it just doesn’t work; would end up putting what I type into quote mode and hiding the bracketed QUOTE words!
 
Some of us are Doubting Thomas. If you have the gift of faith that is strong and fire-breathing without needing to put your hands in the wounds, then you are blessed. Such faith is a gift and I cannot earn it through my own actions, all I can do is offer up my constant prayer for such crutches as a slow learner like me might need.

Do you think Thomas should be considered a saint even though he needed evidence even after all he had seen and heard?
Thomas went on to live a faith-filled life, and died a martyr’s death.
 
I was talking to a Lady today and she related how one person was given the gift of seeing angels. If I got the story right, he says that God is restoring gifts to the human race. Restoring? Certainly this was not a gift of the post-Pentecost Church, so he must mean gifts that Adam and Eve had before the fall. I can believe that. If Adam communed with God in the Garden, not surprising he would be able to see the angels, as well.
 
I was talking to a Lady today and she related how one person was given the gift of seeing angels. If I got the story right, he says that God is restoring gifts to the human race. Restoring? Certainly this was not a gift of the post-Pentecost Church, so he must mean gifts that Adam and Eve had before the fall. I can believe that. If Adam communed with God in the Garden, not surprising he would be able to see the angels, as well.
Not sure if I quite understand. There have been numerous saints down through history who saw angels. Can you clarify a little?
 
Not sure if I quite understand. There have been numerous saints down through history who saw angels. Can you clarify a little?
I think there’s a difference between being able to see an angel at some specific time, say, Mary when she saw the angel. Gabriel, or the children of Fatima when they saw the angel, and generally having the ability to see angels all the time. If there were saints who could see angels all the time, they were probably few. I was at the March for Life when the lady told me about this fellow who had the gift of seeing angels. We remarked that he would have seen that there were more angels there than people, each civilian having an angel, each priest having two angels, the angel of the city of Wash, DC, perhaps, and possibly a host of angels accompanying Mary, who surely was there for the march against abortion. There haven’t been many saints who have seen angels as a matter of course, and this gift is certainly not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as described by St. Paul in his epistles. I had always thought that seeing an angel was a special favor of God especially when the need was present, as in the Annunciation or to the early visitors to the tomb on Easter Sunday. I had never thought of it as a general gift that once may have been as natural to man as the gift of speech. When she mentioned the “restoring of gifts” that;s what came to mind, similar to the restoring of the gift of tongues or the gift of miracles in the Pentecostal/Charasmatic Renewal movements. Many saints have had such gifts, but generally they have not been restored to the Church. .
 
I think there’s a difference between being able to see an angel at some specific time, say, Mary when she saw the angel. Gabriel, or the children of Fatima when they saw the angel, and generally having the ability to see angels all the time. If there were saints who could see angels all the time, they were probably few. I was at the March for Life when the lady told me about this fellow who had the gift of seeing angels. We remarked that he would have seen that there were more angels there than people, each civilian having an angel, each priest having two angels, the angel of the city of Wash, DC, perhaps, and possibly a host of angels accompanying Mary, who surely was there for the march against abortion. There haven’t been many saints who have seen angels as a matter of course, and this gift is certainly not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as described by St. Paul in his epistles. I had always thought that seeing an angel was a special favor of God especially when the need was present, as in the Annunciation or to the early visitors to the tomb on Easter Sunday. I had never thought of it as a general gift that once may have been as natural to man as the gift of speech. When she mentioned the “restoring of gifts” that;s what came to mind, similar to the restoring of the gift of tongues or the gift of miracles in the Pentecostal/Charasmatic Renewal movements. Many saints have had such gifts, but generally they have not been restored to the Church. .
Seeing angels has never been “a general gift” that was “natural” to man after Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden.

If you haven’t read it before, I think you’ll enjoy reading about the army of angels that surrounded Elisha and protected him. It’s recorded in 2 Kings 6:8-23. Here are just a couple of lines:6:8 Once when the king of Syria was warring against Israel, ………
6:15 When the servant of the man of God rose early in the morning and went out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was round about the city. And the servant said, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 6:16 He said, “Fear not, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 6:17 Then Eli’sha prayed, and said, “O LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes that he may see.” So the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Eli’sha. …
 
Seeing angels has never been “a general gift” that was “natural” to man after Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden.
Agree. I was suggesting that just possibly, Adam and Eve had that gift. I don’t know. I do expect that after the general resurrection, we, in our glorified bodies, will have this ability. The man I was told about seemed to be suggesting that many will have this gift before then.
 
… The man I was told about seemed to be suggesting that many will have this gift before then.
I rather doubt it. I think here on earth it will always be just a special gift for special purposes.

(I edited my previous post and added a Bible section about an army of angels in chariots of fire that I thought you might find interesting.- - 2 Kings 6:8-23 vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P96.HTM)
 
I did a little research. This must be the priest the lady was telling me about:

Why all the reports of spiritual phenomena? How come: the sudden, overwhelming public interest in spirits, ghosts, and apparitions? Why, in the Christian and non-Christian worlds, are there so many claims of the supernatural?

Angels. The deceased. And, yes, demons.

The reason, according to a gifted priest from St. Louis named Father Mark Bozada, is that the “veil” is “thinning.”

As we approach special times, the supernatural, he says, is being made more manifest.

courageouspriest.com/spiritdaily-features-fr-mark-bozadas-spiritual-gifts

I neither endorse this nor reject it. I just thought it was interesting.
 
I did a little research. This must be the priest the lady was telling me about:

**Why all the reports of spiritual phenomena? How come: the sudden, overwhelming public interest in spirits, ghosts, and apparitions? Why, in the Christian and non-Christian worlds, are there so many claims of the supernatural?

Angels. The deceased. And, yes, demons.**

The reason, according to a gifted priest from St. Louis named Father Mark Bozada, is that the “veil” is “thinning.”

As we approach special times, the supernatural, he says, is being made more manifest.

courageouspriest.com/spiritdaily-features-fr-mark-bozadas-spiritual-gifts
I neither endorse this nor reject it. I just thought it was interesting.
I’m familiar with Michael Brown. (I bolded the words that are his and not Fr. Bozada’s.) What bothers me in his writings is what I consider a tendency to sensationalize, so to speak, or dramatize. He seems to be overly absorbed in conspiracy theories, chastisements and end times. (Not exactly sure how to express it.) I don’t question his fidelity to the Church, just what seems to me to be an extremism in the above areas.

I did find Fr. Bozada’s words interesting (bolding & underlining mine):
Fr. Mark Bozada ”In my own prayer I have been shown that the** preternatural gifts** lost in the Garden are being partly restored and part of the grace is having the veil lifted,” explains Father Bozada, who ministers at three parishes. “It is predicated, however, on obedience to God’s Will, so as not interrupted by the evil one. The two ways we support that is to remain obedient to the Church community and Magisterium. The perfection of the Holy Spirit is revealed through the Church.” As you can see, Father’s reference to the veil being lifted is in reference to the preternatural gifts - thus it’s very important to know what is meant by “preternatural gifts”. Also note that he says it is “revealed through the Church”.

The** preternatural gifts **“include three great privileges to which human beings have no title – infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.” (from Fr. Hardon’s “Modern Catholic Dictionary”.) As you can see, what Fr. Bozada is speaking about being restored has nothing to do with visions of angels and demons. And the partial restoration of these gifts is conditional on obedience…

Also, thanks for the link you provided. It contains links to blogs of many good priests - which will provide some good reading material in my spare time.
 
The** preternatural gifts **“include three great privileges to which human beings have no title – infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.” (from Fr. Hardon’s “Modern Catholic Dictionary”. As you can see, what Fr. Bozada is speaking about has nothing to do with visions of angels and demons. And the partial restoration of these gifts is conditional on obedience…
QUOTE]

Wait, if they already possessed bodily immortality, how would they have changed by eating from the tree of life (that God had to kick them out in order to prevent)?
 
Nita;11626285:
The** preternatural gifts **
“include three great privileges to which human beings have no title – infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.” (from Fr. Hardon’s “Modern Catholic Dictionary”. As you can see, what Fr. Bozada is speaking about has nothing to do with visions of angels and demons. And the partial restoration of these gifts is conditional on obedience…
QUOTE]
Wait, if they already possessed bodily immortality, how would they have changed by eating from the tree of life (that God had to kick them out in order to prevent)?Hi Neo,
Somehow you deleted the /
in front of that last QUOTE]
and that’s why my post didn’t appear in a quote box separated from your reply.

As to your question.
It’s late here in the Midwest, and I am too tired to track down sources tonight so I’m just going to talk off the top of my head – ideas I recall reading. (There’s no official teaching about the Tree of Life.)

In my recollection there are a couple of theories:
  1. If they had been eating from the Tree of Life prior to the test, then the fruit would have served to nourish or enhance the immortal life they had been given. (In some way similar to our continuing to receive the Eucharist. When we receive Our Lord, we have “Life” itself within us. Yet we continue to return and receive Him again to nourish us.)
  2. Another opinion is that they had not yet consumed fruit from the Tree of Life. That they first had to pass the test. After obedience, eating of the fruit of the Tree of Life would have been connected to their being brought into the glorified state in heaven. (They were in paradise in the Garden, but they were not in heaven in glorified bodies.)
Tomorrow I’ll see if I can locate where I might have come across those possible understandings.

(Finally finished editing, so now I’m off to bed. 🙂 )
 
I’m familiar with Michael Brown. (I bolded the words that are his and not Fr. Bozada’s.) What bothers me in his writings is what I consider a tendency to sensationalize, so to speak, or dramatize. He seems to be overly absorbed in conspiracy theories, chastisements and end times. (Not exactly sure how to express it.) I don’t question his fidelity to the Church, just what seems to me to be an extremism in the above areas.

I did find Fr. Bozada’s words interesting (bolding & underlining mine):
Fr. Mark Bozada ”In my own prayer I have been shown that the** preternatural gifts** lost in the Garden are being partly restored and part of the grace is having the veil lifted,” explains Father Bozada, who ministers at three parishes. “It is predicated, however, on obedience to God’s Will, so as not interrupted by the evil one. The two ways we support that is to remain obedient to the Church community and Magisterium. The perfection of the Holy Spirit is revealed through the Church.” As you can see, Father’s reference to the veil being lifted is in reference to the preternatural gifts - thus it’s very important to know what is meant by “preternatural gifts”. Also note that he says it is “revealed through the Church”.

The** preternatural gifts **“include three great privileges to which human beings have no title – infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.” (from Fr. Hardon’s “Modern Catholic Dictionary”.) As you can see, what Fr. Bozada is speaking about being restored has nothing to do with visions of angels and demons. And the partial restoration of these gifts is conditional on obedience…

Also, thanks for the link you provided. It contains links to blogs of many good priests - which will provide some good reading material in my spare time.
Thanks for the additional information. I’m not so sure Father Bozada means to exclude the ability to see angels by his mention of prerternatural gifts, but I don’t discount that possibility either. I hope to read more about his gift and what he believes it means. It’s an interesting story.

Speaking of priestly gifts (or maybe it’s not a gift), we have a priest in out Diocese who, wherever he goes, is accompanied by weeping statues of Mary. The Bishop, seeing that he was causing so much controversy, called him into his office to try to nip things in the bud, I suppose. When the priest entered the Bishop’s office, a statue of Our Lady in the Bishop’s office began to weep. The priest, I am told, also has the stigmata. He has been assigned to a country parish far removed from the city. Hard to believe, isn’t it, in the United States of America of all places. 🙂
 
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