Why are many American Catholics prejudiced against Mexican Catholics?

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Hello everybody. The OP hath returned! I was on a weekend retreat. Just for thou information, so that you know that I am all spiritual-ish and that the reason I didn’t respond to any direct questions was because I wasn’t here.

Well, all questions to me were answered by somebody else (thanks ), so, I’ll just say that we should cool down some and I don’t see how that guy that got banned was ever in a state of non-banned. Oh, and the gringo thing… about that, when you get called “gringito”, (sort of like saying, dear gringo), you know that its not a bad word. Doth does the mexican-gringolandian speak.

Welcome back…I hope your retreat was rewarding…

 

[Lycorth]

I know of plenty.

However, refusing to tolerate illegal immigration does not make one a “smorgasboard Catholic.” There is no infallibly-proclaimed teaching that requires us to tolerate illegal immigration.

So you are saying that Criminals. i.e., those fleeing poverty for their children, since defined by current law as criminals should, or at least theoretically could, be justifiably shot along with the other 50% that was definitely becoming gang members, since they would be criminals along with them?

Is that proportional justice? We don’t even prosecute wars using logic like that… Just war doctrine demands proportional use of force. A parents desire for the betterment of a child should not result in death unless that parent did something like harvest an organ or commit some other capital crime.

Then why not better their own country or at least follow the law of this one?

I’d like an answer to that. For most people, bettering their childrens’ lives does not include stealing from others, which is what living in and working in the US illegally does. It is stealing jobs, money, and social services that legal citizens deserve.

It is un-Catholic to advocate theft, a sin, as a method to better one’s life.

On a side note would an “devoted actual Catholic”, by your standards have to follow church doctrine, or can they pick and choose what they want to believe?

Church doctrine - which does not and never has included toleration of illegal immigration.

… or is that label just for those that don’t drink your brand of Kool-Aid? I imagine I am included in your sweeping judgment since I am a “Modern White”…

Yes, you fit the bill quite well.

As for my “brand of Kool-Aid”, my views were once the majority, and still resonate with the majority of people once politically-correct fears and programming are breached.

I actually totally abhor quotas and other legal discrimination based on race. Martin Luther King junior did not want quota’s based on race…

MLK was a communist, so bringing up his name doesn’t win you bonus points with me.

It’s good that you oppose such quotas. Now, be consistent and agree that Americans are not under any obligation to apply a mentality of freebies and subservience to illegal aliens and their invasion of this country.

With regards to immigration, reading your above, I assume and please correct me if I am wrong, that you would exclude members of your family and others from wherever your ancestors native land is from coming. …/quote]

Of course I am excluding members of my own family. They came here legally, did whatever the law required to become citizens, learned and spoke English in public and did not demand that the general population accept their language alongside English and accommodate them. Nor did they contribute vast amounts of crime in neighborhoods they intentionally ruined.

Proving the hire of illegal aliens can be done; if we can solve crimes that have happened decades ago, we can solve this. I fully agree with penalizing such companies.
NEWCATHOLICJEFF;6398851:

What I am more concerned with is denying health care to any Child when you and I are allowing, and even encouraging their parents to come to pick our fruit, …

Hold on, buckaroo. I am not encouraging nor in support of illegals coming to pick my fruit. Accusing Americans of wanting illegal immigrant labor is a dirty tactic.

“Its not my fault the parents are poor”, and “You should thank me that I am giving these children jobs” and another. “It is sad though that some of them lose limbs in my factory, but I should not have to provide any [ompensation other then what was earned as it was clearly and an accident”.

Arrant nonsense. The very fact you make such sick assumptions says a lot about you.

… Israel has a nice wall…are we so stupid we cant build one, or is it that we really don’t want to?

Funny that you should mention Israel; no one complains about their own extra-strict immigration policy. But Americans have to bend over and take it. The double standards are plain to see.

I’d love to see a wall, to see illegal immigration stopped.

I am glad that you are such a good “Judge” of character, must be almost God like in your abilities that you should be be able to readily discern what is, and what is not, within someones heart and if they are being selfish, charitable, or merely just sarcastic…

You mean like you are being?

Bazinga.
[/quote]

 

[Lycorth]

We are long overdue for a lecture from the Church on Fascism. The Fascist mentality of “Nation above God” will become more popular as more people abandon the Truth and attempt to make up their own rules.

You do realize that (most) Fascists were the only defenders of the Church in the dark days of the early 20th century when Marxism threatened to sweep all of Europe?

There is no Fascist mentality of “Nation above God”. One could argue that Nazi Germany eventually slipped into such a mentality, even if only by halves. That’s really about it; excepting the Lutheran Lapua Liilke of Finland and the Eastern Orthodox Iron Guard of Romania and the religiously-mixed NSDAP of Germany, Fascist movements in Europe were generally defensive of the Church. Engelbert Dollfuss and the Patriotic Front of Austria was perhaps the best example.

When I worked in NYC, I was surprised to learn that the Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and Dominicans have their own fascist dynamic between the 3 groups. (I’m not picking on them. Many of them are good Catholics. I just want to make a point) The Cubans see themselves as the closest bloodline to Spain, followed by the Puerto Ricans next, followed by the Dominicans. Why should this rivalry between Hispanic groups exist? One cannot control where one’s ancestors were born. Why can’t we live as law-abiding Catholics who live by the Truth? If we do, all these problems go away.

Because diversity doesn’t work. It’s one thing to live in peace with one’s neighbors - it’s another to jumble different peoples together and expect everything to be hunky-dory.

 

[GrimReality]

I am not saying that all American Catholics are, and I am not saying that those that are have no justification… I understand, some Mexican Catholics are disrespectful, etc. but then again, so are many Americans, as I said in another thread.

I did not expect prejudice in CAF, but now I have learned not to enter into immigraition discussions because some people (me included ) get overexcited and national feelings get hurt.

Maybe this can explain:

usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-03-17-drug-chapel_N.htm

 

[Edson]

Maybe this can explain:

usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-03-17-drug-chapel_N.htm

He is not officially reconized as a saint by the Catholic Church. A patron saint of narcos?(drug cartel members) I think not. lets get real now. I pray and ask Jesus Christ to stop or at least minimize all the violence especially for the innocent victims of narco crime. God Bless!

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Humanity seems to love to divide… We like to feel superior…We like differences. Some will find any difference and pry it open to make it a chasm which hate will take root and grow, they seem to be just following Satan in their love of hate… superiority, they can try and define it any way, but when you peel back the onion, social strata, superiority seems to be a motive…

I am sure that some today would not offer the life boat to a child…unless that child was a green, booble thumping two headed Martian, just like they are. I wonder if we could apply the Martian concept to American Lutherans, Baptists, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Pagans, Wicans, Muslims, or Catholics?

 

[Lycorth]

He is not officially reconized as a saint by the Catholic Church. A patron saint of narcos?(drug cartel members) I think not. lets get real now. I pray and ask Jesus Christ to stop or at least minimize all the violence especially for the innocent victims of narco crime. God Bless!

I don’t think he was claiming this character is an actual saint so much as displaying some of the problems illegal immigration is bringing us.

 

[Edson]

I don’t think he was claiming this character is an actual saint so much as displaying some of the problems illegal immigration is bringing us.

Oh ok. Well illegal immigration has been an on going issue and I don’t think that a pseudo saint like idol is going to contribute or detract from this issue. I wouldn’t blame Jesus Malverde I would blame the actions of the people. We come to the argument “do guns kill people of do people kill people?”

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Oh ok. Well illegal immigration has been an on going issue and I don’t think that a pseudo saint like idol is going to contribute or detract from this issue. I wouldn’t blame Jesus Malverde I would blame the actions of the people. We come to the argument “do guns kill people of do people kill people?”

“PEOPLE” with guns, knives, cars, teasers, drugs, kill people…

 

[Edson]

“PEOPLE” with guns, knives, cars, teasers, drugs, kill people…

Of course its people even if we had no weapons people would find a way to commit crimes.

Just in case you missed it I stated that I would blame the actions of people.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Of course its people even if we had no weapons people would find a way to commit crimes.

Just in case you missed it I stated that I would blame the actions of people.

Yep…me too… which is why, although I don’t care much for our open border policy, I do not have much of a problem with Catholics coming across the border. Yes we have some differences, which some will use jack hammers to widen, but they are far less then the differences that we have with Muslims and frankly our love of contraception and abortion is wiping out generations of Anglo Americans… so I know that I will need to have someone tamp then saliva from my bumbling chin as I transition unto death… who will that be? I would rather have a Catholic Mexican illegal immigrant then a legal pagan…just me…and yes I know it may not be totally “Nice”, but somewhere on one of these posts someone is preaching about “Always” being honest… so this is an attempt… I honestly like Catholic South Americans rather then others coming to our country.

 

[lelhajj]

I believe, in the past our government have let mexican and south american workers come to the usa to do the small jobs or “dirty jobs” that americans did not want to do. Legal and illegal workers have been in this country in order to keep the prices of products cheap, the labor cheap and since those workers did not demand medical insurance (within other things), the government just kept a blind eye. Now, that there are a lot of people unemployed and even a little bit before, when they started targeting companies who were hiring illegal inmigrants because they wanted to shorten the numbers of illegals in this country, then the government started applying tougher measures like giving fines to companies who employed them. We can say that in the past, it was explotation of those poor people but the government allowed it because it was more profitable for the american companies to pay cheap labor and also lots of americans did not want to do those jobs. We never think that thanks to those poor illegal laborers we have feed our families with cheaper food, we have fixed our beautiful gardens with the work of those poor laborers. About the word “gringo”, latin people do not use that word as an insult, they use it instead of using the word “expatriates”, which is not an insult. When americans and mexicans were fighting for the southern states, maybe at that time the word “gringos” was invented and was used to send americans back to the usa. But not now, it is a word that was has been kept in the latin vocabulary to refer to people coming from the usa, not necesarily white people, but also people who can not speak spanish correctly. I have noticed more kindness from the latin countries towards americans who are trying to “speak” spanish in latin countries or even in the usa than americans accepting latins trying to “speak” english wherever they are, usa or latinamerica. There is a generalized view of “mexicans equal poor, illegal and illiterated” but that is wrong as certainly some people with hispanic descendent have occupied high positions in the usa and also have obtained good professions. Latinamericans usually welcome (and with a good heart indeed) americans visiting their countries or even americans who are retiring in latin countries, but americans do not do the same with latin people, generally speaking.

 

[Patty1710]

I believe, in the past our government have let mexican and south american workers come to the usa to do the small jobs or “dirty jobs” that americans did not want to do. Legal and illegal workers have been in this country in order to keep the prices of products cheap, the labor cheap and since those workers did not demand medical insurance (within other things), the government just kept a blind eye. Now, that there are a lot of people unemployed and even a little bit before, when they started targeting companies who were hiring illegal inmigrants because they wanted to shorten the numbers of illegals in this country, then the government started applying tougher measures like giving fines to companies who employed them. We can say that in the past, it was explotation of those poor people but the government allowed it because it was more profitable for the american companies to pay cheap labor and also lots of americans did not want to do those jobs. We never think that thanks to those poor illegal laborers we have feed our families with cheaper food, we have fixed our beautiful gardens with the work of those poor laborers. About the word “gringo”, latin people do not use that word as an insult, they use it instead of using the word “expatriates”, which is not an insult. When americans and mexicans were fighting for the southern states, maybe at that time the word “gringos” was invented and was used to send americans back to the usa. But not now, it is a word that was has been kept in the latin vocabulary to refer to people coming from the usa, not necesarily white people, but also people who can not speak spanish correctly. I have noticed more kindness from the latin countries towards americans who are trying to “speak” spanish in latin countries or even in the usa than americans accepting latins trying to “speak” english wherever they are, usa or latinamerica. There is a generalized view of “mexicans equal poor, illegal and illiterated” but that is wrong as certainly some people with hispanic descendent have occupied high positions in the usa and also have obtained good professions. Latinamericans usually welcome (and with a good heart indeed) americans visiting their countries or even americans who are retiring in latin countries, but americans do not do the same with latin people, generally speaking.

I Agree!

 

[Lycorth]

Hate Americans? Remember there are many children of illegal immigrants who are soldiers fighting in the war to protect our country, Americans and freedom…they are being killed.

I highly doubt that there are “many”. Even so, America is not in any danger. Fighting in a war doesn’t automatically justify anyone.

My father is a WWII American Navy vet. He has endless stories of the bad characters on board ship and the often times harsh measures that had to be employed to get them in line or remove the threat they eventually posed to honest seamen. He made me aware that even though military service can be a very ennobling thing it doesn’t make a scumbag into a good person, because after all even thugs like to fight.

What was true 65-70 years ago is still true now.

Remember we are all Children of immigrants.

No we are not. My parents were born in this country. My father’s parents immigrated legally and went through all the due process the law required in order to become naturalized citizens. My great-grandparents on my mother’s side did the same thing. None of them came here and contributed to crime, burdened the welfare system, or expected Americans to change their language and customs for their convenience.

Apples and oranges.

As for Latinos taking money…There are many (non-latino) americans who chose not work and just collect welfare checks while other hard working americans get taxes taken to pay for them.

Yes, and they should be deported also, just like Latinos who do the same.

But, the fact that there are non-Latinos who also abuse the system does not whitewash Latinos who also do.

I am grateful to my parents for all they have done for me! My Mom & Dad worked hard their whole lives to make a better life for their family…now they are proud Americans! I will never be angry towards ignorant people…I will just pray for them

How is it “ignorant” to oppose illegal immigration?

So your folks worked hard for you? Big deal; if it came in any way at my expense or the expense of my family then that is unacceptable.

Also, my folks worked hard for me as well. And they also cared enough about the country to follow its laws about citizenship. If they were not born here, I have no doubt they would have become naturalized and legal citizens.

Also Why do some think that illegal immigrants only come from Latin America? Anyways…God Bless Everyone

For the same reason people think German Shepherds make good watchdogs - because the vast majority of them do.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Yes, and they should be deported also, just like Latinos who do the same.

To where? The question was about non-latino Americans.

 

[Lycorth]

To where? The question was about non-latino Americans.

Their nations of origin, of course.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Their nations of origin, of course.

If they’re Americans, they’re BORN HERE! Try again.

 

[Lycorth]

If they’re Americans, they’re BORN HERE! Try again.

Whoops, responded too quickly. Typing with a seven month-old on one’s lap is harder than I thought

For Americans who abuse the system, ideally, forced community service (instead of pointless prison sentences which accomplish nothing) for a period of time would be a fit punishment, as well as a revocation of benefits at least until after community service is completed. Those who abuse must pay back their debt.

This topic is aggravating because White Americans are seen as having no right to object to illegal immigration, and oftentimes the most idiotic arguments are used to try and silence us. We have a right to complain and we will until the time comes when something productive is done about it. The fact that most illegals come from a Catholic background or otherwise identify with Catholicism does not give them a free pass, nor should it.

Enough is enough.

 

[catharina]

I am not saying that all American Catholics are, and I am not saying that those that are have no justification… I understand, some Mexican Catholics are disrespectful, etc. but then again, so are many Americans, as I said in another thread.

I did not expect prejudice in CAF, but now I have learned not to enter into immigraition discussions because some people (me included ) get overexcited and national feelings get hurt.

Your titled question:
Why are many American Catholics prejudiced against Mexican Catholics?

**I don’t know why -
maybe because this nation is historically prejudiced against any group of “others.”

Our Lady of Guadelupe, pray for us.**

 

[Patty1710]

I highly doubt that there are “many”. Even so, America is not in any danger. Fighting in a war doesn’t automatically justify anyone.

My father is a WWII American Navy vet. He has endless stories of the bad characters on board ship and the often times harsh measures that had to be employed to get them in line or remove the threat they eventually posed to honest seamen. He made me aware that even though military service can be a very ennobling thing it doesn’t make a scumbag into a good person, because after all even thugs like to fight.

What was true 65-70 years ago is still true now.

No we are not. My parents were born in this country. My father’s parents immigrated legally and went through all the due process the law required in order to become naturalized citizens. My great-grandparents on my mother’s side did the same thing. None of them came here and contributed to crime, burdened the welfare system, or expected Americans to change their language and customs for their convenience.

Apples and oranges.

Yes, and they should be deported also, just like Latinos who do the same.

But, the fact that there are non-Latinos who also abuse the system does not whitewash Latinos who also do.

How is it “ignorant” to oppose illegal immigration?

So your folks worked hard for you? Big deal; if it came in any way at my expense or the expense of my family then that is unacceptable.

Also, my folks worked hard for me as well. And they also cared enough about the country to follow its laws about citizenship. If they were not born here, I have no doubt they would have become naturalized and legal citizens.

For the same reason people think German Shepherds make good watchdogs - because the vast majority of them do.

Everyone has their views…I can’t change yours…You cant change Mine…All I can say is God Bless