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SMGS127
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disabilityprideparade.com/
indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/11/29/native-pride-celebrated-87th-macys-thanksgiving-day-parade-152483
We do it so that radical hate groups like the Family Research Council or fundamentalists don’t get to define us with slander, hatred, lies, and BS. We are completely comfortable with our relationships. Really, Luigi, I’m saddened that a poster like you would resort to a comment like this. I expect it from radical conservatives on this forum, but I thought you were different :nope:.
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Winterwolf00
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SMG beat me to it.
Slandering people and making up lies isn’t very ‘Christian’ I thought.
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Charlemagne_III
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And I’m a little saddened that you, a Catholic, must think the Catholic Church is a radical hate group that slanders you with lies and BS because it defines sodomy as a disordered type of sexuality.
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Winterwolf00
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At the very least many Catholic officials are guilty of this yes.
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Joie_de_Vivre
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She never said or implied “the Catholic Church is a radical hate group” nor did she claim the Church slanders with lies. She claimed the fundamentalist Protestants and the FRC (mostly fundamentalists) slander her and the LGBT community. I don’t believe she has ever claimed that sodomy is not intrinsically disordered which is to say she affirms that sodomy is intrinsically disordered. You also totally miss the point that lesbians don’t engage in the anal sex that makes you froth Santorum.
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SMGS127
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Telling the truth, by definition, is not slander. I am talking about the people who claim gay people are a threat to children/child molesters or the people who claim that gay people bring natural disasters onto the United States or the people who preach at the pulpit that gay kids must be thrown out of their house, etc. None of these are Catholic positions.
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Bradski
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Thanks, JD. Now I’ve got milk all down my shirt…
Hopefully, that went straight over Charles’ head,
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Bradski
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I can’t be explaining my point very well.
My last post was entirely an example of how someone’s opinion on a matter dictates to them whether they believe it to be right or wrong. In the case of rape, we need to reach agreement on what that actually entails. There is an infinite continuum between persuading someone to have sex and beating them into submission. It will be our personal opinion as to what that point is.
If a guy simply buys a girl a drink and then they end up in bed, someone might say that he bought her the drink to make her more receptive to his charms. Is it then rape – in your opinion? If it is, then how do you challenge the rapist? If he forces her to have sex just because he is stronger, then is that rape – in your opinion? If it is, then how do you challenge the rapist?
You seem to be confusing someone’s opinion as to whether they can do something whether it is right or wrong, with their opinion of whether it is right or wrong in itself.
If you say ‘Rape is wrong’ it might be pertinent to ask you what you consider rape to be (I’m sure you and I would agree but I’m equally sure that we would both disagree with other definitions). Then if, in our opinion, we have agreed on a definition, we individually need to decide, in our opinion, if someone has actually committed rape. Life is never black and white so there will always be different opinions. In fact, you can’t be convicted of rape unless, in the opinion of a jury of your peers, you have done something wrong.
As far as homosexuality goes, we need to know, in your opinion, what you consider the problem to be. We need a definition of the problem and then agreement as to whether it is a problem in the first instance. That generally doesn’t go well for those arguing against it.
Rule No. 1 in forum debates: Never ask a question unless you already know the answer.
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Bruised_Reed
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I wasn’t even going to say anything.
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PRmerger
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As I already stated, we don’t have to call things “sin”. We can just use the word "wrong’.
To wit: rape is wrong.
Can we agree on that?
We don’t have to use the phrase, “Rape is sinful”. I’m good with that.
As I already stated, Catholicism does not glean its doctrines from the Bible.
(Curiously, you already responded to this. Have you forgotten already? Sheesh!)
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PRmerger
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Huh?
I am indeed confused.
I am quite astonished that you could be professing that “It is my opinion that rape is wrong” is an actual defensible position.
Morality deals with “thou shalts” and “thou shalt nots”. Fashion and food preferences deal with opinions.
Whether you believe the Proclaimer of the “thou shalts” or “thou shalt nots” is Society, Our Conscience, Evolution, or God is irrelevant.
That’s just what morality is–a layer of shalts and shalt nots that governs human behavior.
If morality is just a matter of opinion, then saying, “I think rape is wrong” has about the same oomph as saying, “In my opinion 50 year old women shouldn’t wear mini-skirts.”
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Bradski
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You want things to be too simplistic. Too black and white. Your definition of what might constitute rape is probably different to mine, although I am sure you could come up with a scenario where we both agree. I’m sure I could also up with a scenario where you consider it to be borderline. There must be one.
Whatever that scenario would be (and I won’t keep running through any and every permutation to find out what that is), you won’t have a definite answer. Or if you do, you may need to know further details before you can decide.
And after I have given you all the details and you have thought about it, would you be astonished if I said: ‘OK, PR, what’s your opinion on it?’
You might say, as borderline as it was, that you consider it to be rape. The guy is guilty. And let’s say I gave the same info to your husband and he thought, as borderline as it was, that it couldn’t be described as rape.
Do you accuse him of supporting rape (because you have decided it was)? Are you astonished because he has a different opinion?
If Charles and his ilk want to see things black and white, that’s his prerogative. If he just wants to paint homosexuality as two guys having anal sex, well, let’s let him have his say. I’m sure there are guys who have been responsible for spreading AIDS. I’m sure there are quite a few who are promiscuous. I’m sure that some things that go on in a gay pride parade would not be suitable for children.
But it’s not as simplistic as he’d like it to be. It’s confusing. It makes you think. It challenges your prejudices. It needs some thought. And to be honest, a lot of people are going through that process and realising - hey, there’s no problem!
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PRmerger
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Many things aren’t black and white.
But some things are.
All of the dialogue you’ve offered still doesn’t address this very basic moral fact: rape is wrong.
It is not an opinion.
Anyone who says that it’s simply an opinion has the most otiose of paradigms, and will be completely USELESS when trying to stop a person from believing he can rape someone because he wants to. Utterly useless.
All he’s going to do is say: well, that’s your opinion. You like young women in mini-skirts. I like 'em older. You like consensual sex. I like forced sex. Different strokes, eh?
No doubt. Discussions on "borderline"rape are probably forthcoming, somewhere here on the forum.
Let’s just establish that you and I already agree on what rape is.
Ummm…that’s not homosexuality? I’m confused…
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Joie_de_Vivre
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That was not intended, I meant
“You also totally miss the point that lesbians don’t engage in the anal sex that makes you froth like a caricature of Rick Santorum.”
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Bradski
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Mmm. Quite…
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Winterwolf00
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To be fair my access to internet isn’t exactly consistent.
But yes we can agree that rape is wrong.
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PRmerger
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It’s not an opinion, then? It’s a fact. Rape is wrong. Independent of anyone’s opinion, we can affirm: rape is wrong.
Yes?
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PRmerger
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What does that have to do with your forgetting that you already commented/acknowledged that the Catholic Church doesn’t distill its doctrines from the pages of a book?
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Winterwolf00
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Based on my moral code yes.
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