Why are there mutterings of discontent within the Catholic clergy towards our Pope?

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I couldn’t begin to select prayers for others. From what I have seen people are blessed with different capacities to pray.
 
I don’t know that. I don’t have to believe that, and I don’t. I certainly wouldn’t venture a guess at what that means for others.
Truth is, I don’t know what is inspired about that idea.
To me, commitment to mercy and willingness to forgive trespassers is clearly the path to salvation. If you can read this seems clear
 
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I dont know Calvinism, but I know the Catholic faith. We pray for the faithful for a reason (not the unfaithful). We dont pray for the forgiveness of mortal sin.

1 John 5
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
 
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In James 2 we are reminded that sinning one sin, makes you a sinner of the whole law.
He makes it pretty clear that mercy is the key to salvation. Judgement of Mercy. Freedom.
What I have found in old age, is that I think more and more that sin is not currency in a transactional heaven. Sin is ultimately harmful to us and often to others. Hard to see in youth. And God provides boundaries to protect us. After all, Jesus was gentle with sinners and the church provides absolution fairly easy to obtain for one motivated to obtain it.
 
I think you seem ok to converse with!

I’d like to have time to talk (hopefully fellowship with). But I should let this thread stay on track.

As for the “mutterings” (which I conatate with the Jews in wilderness, and around Jesus who murmured), I believe it’s a negative term.

So I have distinguished that type of witness from lawful communications over concerns of faith and morals. A Dubia is lawful.
 
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Prodigal1984 said:
So if noone is in hell there is no purpose of following Church teaching then or even going to Mass is what I take. What difference does it make if we all end up in heaven anyway?
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No one being in hell does not mean everyone ends up in heaven.
You could always be the first.
 
Do you believe that? Without hell there is no purpose to live right or go to mass?
It explains why the dogma is what it is.
 
As with both sides of American politics, every day there is a fresh batch of troubling news out of Rome. The “working document” for the Amazon Synod being chief among them.

 
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Maximus1 said:
Do you believe that? Without hell there is no purpose to live right or go to mass?
It explains why the dogma is what it is.
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What I believe is that there is a logical inconsistency in believing that if hell is empty it must follow that everyone goes to heaven…or that there is no hell.

One does not necessarily lead to the other.
 
I used to believe the same.
But someone pointed out that Jesus said it would have been better had he never been born.

So I am left wondering what is worse than non-existence. Hell is the only thing I can think of.
 
Right.

Matthew 26:24

“The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

We are absolutely free to believe the Scriptures as condemning Judas.
 
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Ammi said:
We are absolutely free to believe the Scriptures as condemning Judas
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That is correct. You may believe that.

One is also absolutely free to believe that Holy Mother Church has never stated that any particular person is in Hell. Including Judas.
 
frarmandofm said:
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Ammi:
We are absolutely free to believe the Scriptures as condemning Judas
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That is correct. You may believe that.

One is also absolutely free to believe that Holy Mother Church has never stated that any particular person is in Hell. Including Judas.
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Well that wouldnt be so much of a belief, as a matter of fact. The Church has not formally interpreted many Scripture passages.

We dont need a magisterial declaration to believe what Scripture was plainly saying. Why would the Church want to do such a thing?

There just isnt an advantage for the Church to add to the Gospel message in the matter. It doesnt mean that the Church believes there’s a chance. It just means she has not formally defined those passages.
 
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Those things aren’t mutually exclusive at all.

The Church has never declared any particular person to be in Hell. That hardly means that no one is in there. It simply means that the Church has not said that any particular person is there.

Why is this so hard to understand?
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I don’t know why it would be hard to understand, unless one was a Christian Universalist believing that the word aion is translated wrongly as eternal. The fallen angels are certainly in hell.
“Indeed a fair index of sound Christianity is the acceptance of angels as created by God and now living in two states of being: those in heaven who also minister to our needs, and those in hell, who are demons and bent on the destruction of the human race through estrangement from God.” - Father John Hardon
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http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Angelology/Angelology_027.htm
 
I used to assume that was hell . But being responsible for betraying Jesus is terrible for eternity. Regardless of where you are.
Asking God to forgive the cruel men who nailed God to a tree. Still leaves responsibility.
 
Ammi said:
Right.

Matthew 26:24

“The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

We are absolutely free to believe the Scriptures as condemning Judas.
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There are some theological barriers to that though. Remember that Judas killed himself before Jesus death and openning up the gates of hell and then the resurrection, ascension and before the coming of the Holy Spirit. So not having the extent of knowledge of what he’d actually done would impact his culpability. In the upper room when Jesus returned it is reported that the Apostles ‘hearts were pierced’. The disciples on the road to Emmaus upon meeting the Risen Christ said they’re ‘eyes were opened’.

We know that Judas tried to give back the money as an act of remorse and it’s conceivable that having that experience before his death makes it unlikely he would be refused Christs forgiveness in the end.
 
I can assure you there have been many in history who have sinned much worse than I ever have dreamed of.
 
There is a tremendous amount of angst on the part of some of the clergy.

While I am not at all in favor of the Church wading deeply into such issues as ecology, neither am I so naive as to believe that Brazil is a perfect country in terms of environmental laws and effective enforcement. At one time - likely several hundred years ago - the Church had influence on politics; how much it has in Brazil is a matter that few, if any people in the US have any rational idea. The Church has precious little influence, at least on the national stage in the US, but that does not equate to other countries.

Raymond Arroyo is one of my least favorite individuals to listen to as through both his voice and his manner of questioning/commenting does a tremendous amount of editorializing (although I have seen him on Fox news and found him a bit less hectoring).

lat I checked, the Holy Spirit guides the Church and the Truth, and protects the Church. I choose to leave it at that, as my opinion is beyond insignificant in the scheme of the Church.
 
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