Why are Traditional leaning guys so weird (insecure?) around women!

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Hoosier_Daddy said:
I refuse to believe anyone under the age of 50 believes that at all. Except perhaps in foreign cultures.
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Or people who either aren’t very bright or into thinky stuff themselves and are intimidated by people who are.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I refuse to believe anyone under the age of 50 believes that at all. Except perhaps in foreign cultures.

My wife is a scientist. There is rarely any overt sexism in her field. There are some cultural things every once in a while. There was a married Chinese couple where the woman was by far and away the better scientist, As brilliant as she was, he was horrible. The company would have fired him many times but they knew she would leave. So they kept him on to keep her on. But they (the couple) requested that he be given the larger salary. Because of their families and culture. But it was the couple that requested this, not the company doing it on purpose.
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Believe what you want. All I can say is that I have met people who are like this in the US. In part you are right. Most of these people are recent immigrants who are older.
 
I have my degree in electrical engineering. While in school (and dating), I encountered quite a few guys who took issue with women going to school for a science/math-based degree. So much so that I laid it on the line when Brian and I started dating. He was fine with it (and is still thrilled with my career). He was candid that when he was younger he probably couldn’t have dealt with it (by his own admission he was a hellion between the ages of 15 and 25). He’s taken gruff from some guys he works with (he’s a pressman) about his wife being an engineer (now product manager). Some think it is cool. All I am saying is that there are still people out there that think women should not have technical degrees/jobs of that nature. To each, their own.
 
It’s a little dated now (and risque in spots), but I have to recommend Florence King’s “Southern Ladies and Gentlemen” for some cultural explanations. Her “Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady” is even more risque in spots (toward the end it’s about coming of age as a bisexual bluestocking in 1950s Mississippi), but I think the OP might enjoy them and learn a thing or two.
 
kosull2 said:
IAll I am saying is that there are still people out there that think women should not have technical degrees/jobs of that nature. To each, their own.
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The funny thing is, there are also a lot of people (generally men) who criticize women for doing non-technical degrees in college.
 
kosull2 said:
I have my degree in electrical engineering. While in school (and dating), I encountered quite a few guys who took issue with women going to school for a science/math-based degree. So much so that I laid it on the line when Brian and I started dating. He was fine with it (and is still thrilled with my career). He was candid that when he was younger he probably couldn’t have dealt with it (by his own admission he was a hellion between the ages of 15 and 25). He’s taken gruff from some guys he works with (he’s a pressman) about his wife being an engineer (now product manager). Some think it is cool. All I am saying is that there are still people out there that think women should not have technical degrees/jobs of that nature. To each, their own.
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I work with a lot of engineers from India and a sizeable number of them are women. They tell me it’s no big thing for women there to become engineers or scientists. This is from a culture that has misogynistic tendencies.
 
Lol, ok I’ll just deal with it ! I don’t hate these people, its THEM that act so weird around me! The nicer I act towards them the more they find it offensive and hate me! I feel like they automatically label me as a feminist trying to be ‘better’ or compete with guys (I’m not - I believe that the husband is the head of the family). I’ve seen many successful marriages with girls not having to be ‘stupid’ and ditsy, especially husband-wife pairs in the sciences, so I’m just not sure where these guys are coming from. And no offense to Southerners in general, sorry to even connect these guys with Southerners, these guys probably exist everywhere ^_^. Peace.
 
Malon101 said:
Lol, ok I’ll just deal with it ! I don’t hate these people, its THEM that act so weird around me! The nicer I act towards them the more they find it offensive and hate me! I feel like they automatically label me as a feminist trying to be ‘better’ or compete with guys (I’m not - I believe that the husband is the head of the family). I’ve seen many successful marriages with girls not having to be ‘stupid’ and ditsy, especially husband-wife pairs in the sciences, so I’m just not sure where these guys are coming from. And no offense to Southerners in general, sorry to even connect these guys with Southerners, these guys probably exist everywhere ^_^. Peace.
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As I said before, it is the guys that act this way that have the problem. Don’t worry about them not liking you.
 
Sarcelle said:
In the OP’s defense, I have met people who think that women should not bother their pretty little heads on such weighty matters as science, philosophy and theology. They should bother their pretty little heads with beauty, homemaking and child care so they can be good wives and mothers someday. And if a woman does not limit her interest to beauty, fashion and homemaking she is labeled as rebellious.

These people do exist. I have met them. However the type of people I have met who do think that way are surprisingly usually women…
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Yes, I was guessing these people are not scholars themselves. I have heard of people who think that any people, male or female, who want to go to college for any reason other than to get a professional degree in order to give a family a bread-winner so the wife can stay at home with their large family of children is somehow pushing to buy a one-way ticket to Hell. I don’t think I’ve personally met any of these people, though. I mean the “of course my daughter shouldn’t go to college but should I risk my son’s soul by sending him to one?” types that write blog posts that make this whole forum light up when related here.

Most traditional Catholics I know personally take a rather dim view of anyone, male or female, who is overly concerned with his or her wardrobe or who devotes an inordinate amount of time to grooming. The aim is usually to go out with something on that looks reasonably well-groomed and becoming, but to avoid straying beyond that into vanity or a shallow view of others that is based primarily on their looks.

I used to spend some time in the Traditional forum. I didn’t get the idea that there was anyone there that thought that some academic subjects were safe for the souls of men but not safe for the souls of women. There were strong opinions about young couples stacking up a lot of student loans to develop two careers and then having to delay childbearing in order to pay them back, but that is a bit different than thinking women shouldn’t be interested in the topics studied in college.
 
Malon101 said:
Lol, ok I’ll just deal with it ! I don’t hate these people, its THEM that act so weird around me! The nicer I act towards them the more they find it offensive and hate me! I feel like they automatically label me as a feminist trying to be ‘better’ or compete with guys (I’m not - I believe that the husband is the head of the family). I’ve seen many successful marriages with girls not having to be ‘stupid’ and ditsy, especially husband-wife pairs in the sciences, so I’m just not sure where these guys are coming from. And no offense to Southerners in general, sorry to even connect these guys with Southerners, these guys probably exist everywhere ^_^. Peace.
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Not totally serious here, but I suggest smiling big and asking, “Why would you want a stupid person handling your food, sharing a checking or credit card account with you, dealing with tradesmen as your representative, or raising your children?”
 
Malon101 said:
Lol, ok I’ll just deal with it ! I don’t hate these people, its THEM that act so weird around me! The nicer I act towards them the more they find it offensive and hate me! I feel like they automatically label me as a feminist trying to be ‘better’ or compete with guys (I’m not - I believe that the husband is the head of the family).
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That sounds like low-self esteem and inadequacy on their part, which is more a personal than a regional feature.

I have seen a lot of this sort of thing in the North, but we were all in high school at the time.
 
EasterJoy said:
Yes, I was guessing these people are not scholars themselves. I have heard of people who think that any people, male or female, who want to go to college for any reason other than to get a professional degree in order to give a family a bread-winner so the wife can stay at home with their large family of children is somehow pushing to buy a one-way ticket to Hell. I don’t think I’ve personally met any of these people, though. I mean the “of course my daughter shouldn’t go to college but should I risk my son’s soul by sending him to one?” types that write blog posts that make this whole forum light up when related here.

Most traditional Catholics I know personally take a rather dim view of anyone, male or female, who is overly concerned with his or her wardrobe or who devotes an inordinate amount of time to grooming. The aim is usually to go out with something on that looks reasonably well-groomed and becoming, but to avoid straying beyond that into vanity or a shallow view of others that is based primarily on their looks.

I used to spend some time in the Traditional forum. I didn’t get the idea that there was anyone there that thought that some academic subjects were safe for the souls of men but not safe for the souls of women. There were strong opinions about young couples stacking up a lot of student loans to develop two careers and then having to delay childbearing in order to pay them back, but that is a bit different than thinking women shouldn’t be interested in the topics studied in college.
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The antipathy towards higher education seems to be generally more of a class thing than a gender thing. I have a good friend, who encountered a lot of criticism from extended family when he enrolled in college. He was smart enough to get scholarships, but for some reason his family was antagonistic towards his decision to attend college. They thought he was getting too “big for his britches”.
 
Malon101 said:
I’ve just noticed this after moving to the south that guys do not know how to act around women who don’t follow the more Traditional ‘mother with babies’ mold. Are women SUPPOSED to be stupid/ditsy/obsessed with fashion/makeup/looks in order to be a woman? I’m beginning to feel that that is the definition of what makes a woman sometimes, by being around these type of men. When you don’t act like that they give you weird looks, and think you’re being ‘rebellious’. It’s not fair for women to have to lower their IQ by 40 points to be ‘normal’. It seems I can’t smile and be friendly to a guy without them thinking you’re hitting on them, never mind being congenial - they refuse to acknowledge you at the same level. I only find this with traditional leaning, perhaps Southern guys. Guys from the north or more liberal seem to be fine interacting with girls like me. Even international students don’t act like this… What do you do with these type of guys???
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I dated 2 traditional Catholic guys and while I hate to general myself both were very controling and insecure. I refuse to ever date another because of it. I’m on the traditional side myself but very independent. Only my father has any right to tell me what to do. As to what to do with this type of guy I just don’t date them…not that I’m dating anymore anyway…lol :rolleyes:
 
Sarcelle said:
The antipathy towards higher education seems to be generally more of a class thing than a gender thing. I have a good friend, who encountered a lot of criticism from extended family when he enrolled in college. He was smart enough to get scholarships, but for some reason his family was antagonistic towards his decision to attend college. They thought he was getting too “big for his britches”.
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There’s a very erudite man from our circle whose father forbade him him to go to college, as who had ever seen a Baptist who went to college that wasn’t a backslider? He went to college anyway. (This was way, way up North, by the way.)
 
Xantippe said:
The funny thing is, there are also a lot of people (generally men) who criticize women for doing non-technical degrees in college.
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People are so tribal. We just tend to naturally divide into groups and focus on differences instead of commonalities.

I’ve known technical degree folks who look down on soft sciences
Liberal arts folks who look down on the engineering/technical degrees
Craftsman who look down on the formally educated
Formally educated who look down on the craftsman
etc. etc. etc.

Lot of folks thinking that intelligence equates to thinking like them, making the same type of career choices they would. Then a lot of projections onto others about how they must be thinking/feeling vice asking and trying to understand.
 
Sarcelle said:
The antipathy towards higher education seems to be generally more of a class thing than a gender thing. I have a good friend, who encountered a lot of criticism from extended family when he enrolled in college. He was smart enough to get scholarships, but for some reason his family was antagonistic towards his decision to attend college. They thought he was getting too “big for his britches”.
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That’s along the lines of what I mean, but it is also true that contemporary college campuses are often frankly hostile places when it comes to those with traditional beliefs, particularly those who are Catholic or evangelical Protestants. I think the reasons are primarily political. These denominations are considered associated with conservative political parties by “liberal” thinkers and yet aren’t “trusted” to have politics that align with some of the fiscal conservatives among the “conservative” groups. Not surprisingly, even *college-educated *Catholics and evangelical Protestants can graduate with a great deal of wariness about the sort of attitudes that can be picked up at college, even if they are not anti-intellectual, per se.

College campuses are also hot-beds of radical feminist thought that might well make any guy wary around women. If you get treated with contempt and are presumed to have a contempt for women because you open doors and pull chairs out for them, why wouldn’t you feel wary before you know whether or not the woman you are talking to is going to either attack you for opening a door for her or else think less of you for failing to do it? Is she going to be offended if you offer to pay for meals? What if you don’t? If you like to do the driving? If you do or don’t presume her to have some knowledge of about automotive care? It can be a no-win world for a fellow brought up with traditional manners, long before the sticky topic of Ephesians 5 ever comes up.
 
EasterJoy said:
That’s along the lines of what I mean, but it is also true that contemporary college campuses are often frankly hostile places when it comes to those with traditional beliefs, particularly those who are Catholic or evangelical Protestants. I think the reasons are primarily political. These denominations are considered associated with conservative political parties by “liberal” thinkers and yet aren’t “trusted” to have politics that align with some of the fiscal conservatives among the “conservative” groups. Not surprisingly, even *college-educated *Catholics and evangelical Protestants can graduate with a great deal of wariness about the sort of attitudes that can be picked up at college, even if they are not anti-intellectual, per se.

College campuses are also hot-beds of radical feminist thought that might well make any guy wary around women. If you get treated with contempt and are presumed to have a contempt for women because you open doors and pull chairs out for them, why wouldn’t you feel wary before you know whether or not the woman you are talking to is going to either attack you for opening a door for her or else think less of you for failing to do it? Is she going to be offended if you offer to pay for meals? What if you don’t? If you like to do the driving? If you do or don’t presume her to have some knowledge of about automotive care? It can be a no-win world for a fellow brought up with traditional manners, long before the sticky topic of Ephesians 5 ever comes up.
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I was raised atheist and I was still an atheist when I attended University.
However ,even as an atheist and up to now, whenever a man opens a door for me or does other things that gentlemen do, I will behave like a lady and tell him “Thank You.” It’s just good manners.
 
You seem to be ‘painting with a very wide brush’…presenting ‘traditional’ men from the south. I went to Grad School in the Northeast and opened the door for a female classmate…she took one step back put both hands on her hips and emphatically stated that she ‘perfectly capable of opening the door for herself’…she was not joking…I apologized and simply stated that I was from some place else…and was careful from that point on…does that mean that that is the attitude of all females from the North…I married the quintessential alpha female by the way…she has original thoughts…she’s educated…intellegent…with a very broad knowledge base…I open doors for her…do not walk ahead of her…usually walk on the traffic side…by the way I like to cook and I am not beneath picking up after myself …however…men to want to be around (can’t speak for all men) a woman that acts as though she is in competion with him…most women, from the deep south…where I am from…are smart enough to ‘make’ their man feel important…and in the same respect…men treat their wife/girlfriend with respect…I value my wife’s (name removed by moderator)ut…I don’t come home and beat myself on the chest and order a beer…again…i don’t speak for all men…just as you don’t for all women…maybe you should ‘branch’ out a little and meet some different people…I have dated, in the past…women who act like everything that comes out of my mouth is a pearl of wisdom…tha’t was not attractive. I have also dated women that need to feel completely in control of everything in a relationship/friendship…I would guess you are not a ‘bimbo’ are you wouldn’t be addressing this topic…but in the same respect…you’re probably not going to find many 'metrosexual’s in the south…so somewhere between the man wearing makeup…and the guy carrying the club…you might try to figure where you fit in…sorry for my verbosity…
 
by the way…my wife is Beautiful…a Southern Belle…and a real lady…most guys see her and look at me…and do a double take…we also pray together, laugh together…my best friend…my wife…PAX
 
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