Why be Catholic at all?

[Genesis315]

Most dioceses are at least making these things available for those in danger of death, and some are being more generous. That being said, this would be analogous to only making McDonalds cheeseburgers available to the starving.

Clergy have been all about innovation since Vatican II when it has been totally unnecessary, but now that it is necessary, very few are and some bishops for the first time forbid it. You do have a point. If food can be safely distributed through a drive through, so can confession and the Eucharist–both are essential, since man is both body and soul. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul?

It does seem like the temporal is given more weight than the spiritual. But that is always going to be the case, even in the Church. In one homily, St. Gregory compares the Church to Noah’s ark, which was wide at the bottom where the many animals were–representing the earthly minded–and narrow at the top where the few righteous men were–representing those who think spiritually:

And we are to believe that below were the four-footed animals and serpents, above the birds and men. It was wide where the beasts were, narrow where men lived: for the Holy Church is indeed wide in the number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in those who are spiritual.

Pray to God in Jesus name that you will receive the sacraments you need when you need them, and He will ensure you do (He has promised to give us anything we ask for if it is good for our salvation).

 

[whatistrue]

If food can be safely distributed through a drive through, so can confession and the Eucharist

I would agree that confession can be safely done in a drive-through format. I don’t think that the same can be said for Eucharist. The very nature of the Sacrament requires a degree of physical closeness that is potentially unsafe for both the Minister and the Communicant. Whether on the tongue or in the hand, the Host must pass directly from one person to another - drive-through food pickup can be done using a no-contact method but Eucharist cannot. And a single infected person going through the line could infect the priest/deacon/EMHC and through them many others, even with care taken by all. And the fact is that the Church only requires that one receive once per year, which I believe could be legitimately dispensed under the current circumstances by appropriate authority if it is deemed wise to do so.

 

[catholiclala]

You’re confusing legally essential with spiritually essential.

Exactly. Plus, are not bishops beholden to follow the law of their lands? I’m not great with quoting scripture or the Catechism but I’m pretty sure there are several references to such. This isn’t a situation were we are under some oppressive regime that has outlawed our faith itself and priests need to hold secret Masses.

 

[catholiclala]

I wish people would quite using access to food as an analogy for access to the sacraments. don’t consider McDonald’s essential but for some people that is how they sustain themselves and may be the best option right now. Nobody is literally going to die without a sacrament or Mass. You can sustain yourself spiritually.

Another point, I think alternative is getting confused with substitute. The bishops have offered alternative devotions to get us by until we can have the sacraments again. They are not presenting these devotions as a substitute. I would compare alternatives to non-dairy milk as an alternative to milk. For basic purposes you can use the non-dairy milk as an alternative but it can never be a true substitute for milk as they do not naturally contain the acids, calcium, animal fat, and protein that makes milk efficacious for more complex applications and nourishment. Corny analogy but I hope that clicks with someone.

 

[Cimachol]

Nobody is literally going to die without a sacrament or Mass. You can sustain yourself spiritually.

I disagree with both of these statements. Spiritual death is a literal death, perhaps more “literal” than bodily death, and we cannot sustain ourselves spiritually.

 

[Cimachol]

I think Cardinal Burke has it right – we are leaving our homes to do things that we deem essential, so the question is, do we consider the Mass essential, or, to use Cardinal Burke’s analogy, more along the lines of going to a football game? Yes, we should take reasonable precautions, but locking us out of our churches seems an unnecessary extreme.

 

[catholiclala]

I disagree with both of these statements. Spiritual death is a literal death, perhaps more “literal” than bodily death, and we cannot sustain ourselves spiritually.

But you will not necessarily literally die a spiritual death without the sacraments. I think some of you are assuming the worst. How many saints went years without the sacraments? If everyone’s spiritual life is going to die without the sacraments, which are only temporarily unavailable, I think they have spiritual problems they need to seek counsel about. Priests are still available for pastoral care, even from a distance.

 

[catholiclala]

I hate to say it but many of these arguments are all about drama and having a reason to be angry right now. Some people live for being angry at the Church at all times for one reason or another. Meanwhile, the rest of us are thriving despite the circumstances.

 

[TheLittleLady]

My Diocese has a great effort to have churches open every day for prayer, Adoration, etc.

 

[Cimachol]

My Diocese has a great effort to have churches open every day for prayer, Adoration, etc.

Unfortunately, my diocese has chosen to lock us out of all the churches. One parish is putting the Eucharist in a window so people can adore from outside, and a couple of parishes have drive-in confession.

 

[Cimachol]

But you will not necessarily literally die a spiritual death without the sacraments. I think some of you are assuming the worst. How many saints went years without the sacraments? If everyone’s spiritual life is going to die without the sacraments, which are only temporarily unavailable, I think they have spiritual problems they need to seek counsel about. Priests are still available for pastoral care, even from a distance.

My point was that we cannot sustain ourselves spiritually – we are constantly dependent on the grace of God. While a few saints have been kept holy by the grace of God without access to the sacraments, every priest I have ever heard offer guidance on growing in holiness has recommended frequent reception of the sacraments; none has ever said that you can sustain yourselves spiritually. Why have a requirement that we go to weekly Mass at all, under pain of mortal sin, no less, if we can sustain ourselves spiritually? Jesus himself said that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life within you.

And while in fact many people do have spiritual problems, I have never read any saint suggest that reliance on the sacraments is a sign of spiritual weakness.

 

[TC3033]

I think Cardinal Burke has it right – we are leaving our homes to do things that we deem essential, so the question is, do we consider the Mass essential, or, to use Cardinal Burke’s analogy, more along the lines of going to a football game? Yes, we should take reasonable precautions, but locking us out of our churches seems an unnecessary extreme.

I believe, for the most part, that is/was an internal decision.

So, what was his idea on being able to practice social distancing at Mass? A lottery system so only 5 - 10 people can get in and they have to sit 4 pews apart?

 

[catholiclala]

My point was that we cannot sustain ourselves spiritually – we are constantly dependent on the grace of God. While a few saints have been kept holy by the grace of God without access to the sacraments, every priest I have ever heard offer guidance on growing in holiness has recommended frequent reception of the sacraments; none has ever said that you can sustain yourselves spiritually. Why have a requirement that we go to weekly Mass at all, under pain of mortal sin, no less, if we can sustain ourselves spiritually? Jesus himself said that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life within you.

And while in fact many people do have spiritual problems, I have never read any saint suggest that reliance on the sacraments is a sign of spiritual weakness.

Well I’m doing fine, personally. I’m doing my regular daily prayer and scripture reading, an occasional Rosary, watching Mass and devotional prayers, virtual bible study. Is it the same? No. But I don’t feel like I’m in spiritual danger. I think if people quit thinking about it so much and just did what they can they may be surprised by how they can sustain themselves until we get sacraments again and are renewed. I think if you have faith it will be fine, then it will be fine.

 

[Gorgias]

The Church has agreed with the secular gov’t that the sacraments are not considered essential, unlike abortions and McDonalds

Therefore, why be a Catholic if the sacraments are non-essential?

The sacraments aren’t essential to physical life. That’s what the secular government is talking about.

The sacraments are essential to eternal life. However, that’s not what the current societal restrictions are about.

Why go to mass if you can merely ask for a spiritual communion?

Because, in normal situations, you’ll find yourself in mortal sin if you choose to skip Sunday Mass.

locking us out of our churches seems an unnecessary extreme.

Our bishops don’t want our church buildings to be the vehicle through which the faithful contract COVID-19 and (potentially) die. Is that so unreasonable?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Here is the status for each of the US Dioceses:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...hats-suspended--or-not--in-your-diocese-61864

 

[Emeraldlady]

catholiclala:

But you will not necessarily literally die a spiritual death without the sacraments. I think some of you are assuming the worst. How many saints went years without the sacraments? If everyone’s spiritual life is going to die without the sacraments, which are only temporarily unavailable, I think they have spiritual problems they need to seek counsel about. Priests are still available for pastoral care, even from a distance.

My point was that we cannot sustain ourselves spiritually – we are constantly dependent on the grace of God. While a few saints have been kept holy by the grace of God without access to the sacraments, every priest I have ever heard offer guidance on growing in holiness has recommended frequent reception of the sacraments; none has ever said that you can sustain yourselves spiritually. Why have a requirement that we go to weekly Mass at all, under pain of mortal sin, no less, if we can sustain ourselves spiritually? Jesus himself said that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life within you.

You seem to be perceiving of the Sacraments as having utility alone to us. You have to factor in that faith is love based and love endures and especially love grows through suffering joined to Christ. My mother is in a nursing home with dementia and I haven’t been able to visit her for 3 weeks. I talk to her on the phone daily but it isn’t the same as visiting in person. But my love for her isn’t waning or fading. I had made my visits to her before this, part of my routine every few days and sometimes I didn’t really feel like it but did it anyway. Since not being able to see her, I can’t wait to be able to touch her again. That’s how love works and it’s a perennial truth that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

[Cimachol]

Our bishops don’t want our church buildings to be the vehicle through which the faithful contract COVID-19 and (potentially) die. Is that so unreasonable?

There were 36,560 fatal car accidents in the U.S. in 2018, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. That’s about 100 deaths per day. Yet, we haven’t done away with Sunday Mass, even though someone might die in a fatal car accident on the way to Mass. We know that everything we do in life involves some level of risk.

I can sort of see not doing public Mass right now under the circumstances, but closing the Church doors altogether, as if people can’t spread out and clean their hands on the way in and out, is overkill.

 

[Neophyte1780]

This is an ad hominem and merely shows you cannot actually deal with the substance of my points. Even if you were right, and that I was angry, this would have no bearing on the matter of my points. Whether or not you thrive has no relation on truth. I am starting to realize via your replies that you don’t believe the sacraments are life giving, life preserving, and totally necessary, and as it seems, you are not a big advocate of analyzing things and are under the presumption based on a latter post of yours, that you are in a good spiritual state because of what you feel, which is never an indication of reality outside of somatic experiences.

In general, I was under the impression, the ignorant catechumen that I am, that these were central tenets of the faith (that the sacraments are life giving and necessary for salvation for those with vincible ignorance). I guess you can die without hamburgers, but the sacraments are only helpful when its convenient.

God bless!

 

[Neophyte1780]

Not quite. A lot of commenters are replying with the statement that the church never said xyz. However, the Church can make implicit and explicit statements. Let me posit a syllogism:

The state says: Only essential business can stay open.
Churches in response close.
Ergo: Churches are non essential (and by extension the sacraments they offer).

One can argue (as many have) that the Church has an obligation to follow the law of the secular state, yet one wonders if the state legislates something contrary to the good, isn’t it too the law of the Church not to cooperate with evil? Is not relegating the sacraments to a legally non-essential status something inherently evil?

Hence, it does not follow that I am confusing legally essential with spiritually essential. There seems to be a conflict in theory and in action.

 

[Neophyte1780]

I’m not questioning my desire to be catholic. I am bothered by the total abandonment by bishops and some laity of the idea that the sacraments are totally necessary and essential. Many people keep repeating that no one ever said they weren’t essential, but the church is currently acting as if they were non-essential. If someone wants to argue that in the past the sacraments haven’t been available, I think they will have to prove a moment when the church stopped access to those who needed them, which is totally different from those cases listed above of those who went long times due to plague, distance, and persecution. The church in these cases didn’t suddenly deny those people access to those spiritual foods which are life-preserving.