Why be Catholic at all?

[Neophyte1780]

I suppose bishops and the church have willfully chosen to throw the faithful to the waves of sin then.

 

[Neophyte1780]

This perennial truth you mention is very true and piecing. But what of absence that withers away one’s state of grace? or absence and denial of life-giving benefits of a sacrament supposedly necessary for the salvation of one’s soul? (baptism)

I am in the RCIA, and I was prepared to be saved next Saturday. Now I won’t be saved next Saturday, unless anyone considers the conception of protestant salvation to be intellectually defensable. Now I am persisting in my sin and not because of my choice, but because the Church of God, under the judgment of its human actors, has closed the pathway of salvation away from me.

 

[Neophyte1780]

Our bishops don’t want our church buildings to be the vehicle through which the faithful contract COVID-19 and (potentially) die. Is that so unreasonable?

Yes, if the sacraments are necessary. If they are, then risk is worth it and they could create an environment in which the risk is lessened. If they aren’t entirely life-saving and necessary, then sure, close the churches. Is not Christ worth dying for? If you answer no, that we ought to put more stock in this earthly life, then I think we hear have a contradiction in the actuality of faith. I understand Christ’s healing ministry, especially during his earthly life, but he always said those who love their lives will lose them.

Pax et bonum

 

[Neophyte1780]

This is a very slanted statement of a fearful and quasi-scientific basis. What you are describing is pneumonia. Certainly deadly, but surely not as deadly as the Spanish influenza, when 50,000,000 deaths occurred throughout the world, yet baptisms didn’t stop. The examples of missionaries in Japan are not at all analogous to the present situation, because then the church didn’t close their doors to the faithful and new converts. The absence of a priest is not analogous to churches refusing to offering life-giving sacraments.

Though I agree we ought to trust God, and I am sure this will lead to some greater good, both in myself and in the Church.

Nevertheless, I will continue to argue that the bishops made a mistake by stopping the administration of sacraments.

God bless

 

[Justin_Mary]

I understand what you are saying. But this doesn’t at all answer the question as to the non-essential nature of the sacraments (as the church now seems to consider them).

I’m wondering how anyone could be convinced that the Church is necessary if the sacraments are superfluous and easily supplanted with more Protestant-esque spiritual doctrines?

Pax in Christo.

The Mass is still being offered, that’s the most important thing. We can’t physically participate, & yes that is difficult to accept.

But the Mass is still being offered on our behalf & on behalf of the whole world.

I think that’s the difference. I believe I should go to Mass to participate in that service, the prayer of Christ. While I can’t participate now, I know it continues on our behalf.

 

[tonyh12]

Exactly, and they will be there for us to receive again when this all finishes.

Protestant churches don’t believe in transubstantiation, their doors are closed to everyone they have no desire to consecrate the Eucharist because to them it is symbolic our doors may be closed but still we have this desire for spiritual communion and the priests are consecrating the bread for the redemption of the world, so yes doors open or closed there’s a vast difference, be thankful for the fullness of truth…

 

[Neophyte1780]

I’m less concerned with reception of the Eucharist as with the sacraments of initiation.

 

[Justin_Mary]

I’m less concerned with reception of the Eucharist as with the sacraments of initiation

That’s understandable. How many people are in your class? Have you reached out to the parish to see if they would do a private service for you & your class. If we’re talking about less than 10 people, including sponsors & priest… they may be able to do something

 

[OddBird]

but the church is currently acting as if they were non-essential.

I think I understand what you mean, and yet… the church I see around me isn’t acting as if the sacraments were non-essential. On the contrary, she is in mourning. Bishop, priests and faithful.

As to stopping access to the sacraments for those who need them, I don’t know how it is where you live, but here no clergy from whatever religion or denomination can access elderly homes or hospitals. The church is not responsible for this, and very much wishes it were otherwise.

I guess maybe a very private confirmation ceremony would be possible here, but assemblies of more than 5 persons are forbidden.

 

[Neophyte1780]

I live in NYC, so much of the same I suppose. All those entering the church have been told that their life-saving baptism is postponed indefinitely. I’m glad to hear that your diocese might be acting differently.

I say that they are acting as if they are non-essential because of this simple fact that the churches have closed as non-essential yet McDonalds are open here in nyc, abortion clinics are open, so I can get an abortion, I can get a cheeseburger, but I can’t be saved by the waters of baptism.

I don’t think the sacraments are non-essential in fact, I think the response of the church has shown that some in power think they are, otherwise they wouldn’t have ceased access to them.

 

[Neophyte1780]

I have discussed it with the head of my RCIA but the priest of my parish is very distant from the group and isn’t truly available to talk with.

 

[Gorgias]

There were 36,560 fatal car accidents in the U.S. in 2018, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. That’s about 100 deaths per day. Yet, we haven’t done away with Sunday Mass, even though someone might die in a fatal car accident on the way to Mass.

The Church doesn’t require that you drive to Mass. Yet, in a normal Sunday, she requires we gather.

Gatherings of ten or more are being declared by medical experts as means by which the coronavirus is spread and people are infected. If the Church requires that you gather for Mass, then she is implicitly requiring that you put yourself at risk for infection.

(And, if she keeps the doors open, she likewise creates an environment for the spread of the virus.)

That’s the difference you seem to be avoiding to assert.

Gorgias:

Our bishops don’t want our church buildings to be the vehicle through which the faithful contract COVID-19 and (potentially) die. Is that so unreasonable?

Yes, if the sacraments are necessary. If they are, then risk is worth it and they could create an environment in which the risk is lessened.

Ahh, but the question is “with what frequency are the sacraments necessary?” At a minimum, the Church requires that we receive the Eucharist once a year, and therefore, likewise, that Reconciliation once a year is either necessary or recommended. Moreover, there are means to receive the graces of Reconciliation, if the sacrament is unable to be approached.

So, the question is really “is the risk worth it at all frequencies of reception?” The Church says no.

Now, it’s possible to conflate two issues – and folks are doing it left and right: what’s the confluence of the questions of reception of the Eucharist and the precept to attend Mass weekly? The answer is, surprisingly, none. No one (except for the priest celebrants) is required to receive Eucharist at Mass. And, when the Church lifts the requirement to attend Mass physically, then that is not necessary, either.

So, the question becomes “is it worth the risk to do something that doesn’t save your soul?” That’s a question worth reflecting. In fact, it might be worthwhile for us to reflect on it as we sit and watch live-streamed Masses: “if I’m fulfilling my obligations as a Catholic to the extent of the Church’s requirements and to the best of my ability, am I doing what God asks of me?” I’d assert that the answer comes from Jesus himself – “be not afraid”. Yes.

If they aren’t entirely life-saving and necessary, then sure, close the churches. Is not Christ worth dying for?

I think you might wish to reflect on Luke 22, especially vv38 and 51. “It is enough” to suffer the current situation. Shouldn’t we “stop”, and have “no more of this” attempt to fight against the Church?

 

[Emeraldlady]

Now I am persisting in my sin and not because of my choice, but because the Church of God, under the judgment of its human actors, has closed the pathway of salvation away from me.

This is faulty reasoning. I have observed that many protestants who believe that striving to be holy is unnecessary since it is ‘faith alone’ that saves, on conversion, continue to believe that striving for holiness is still unnecessary since the Sacraments do all the work for Catholics. That isn’t true. The catechism says that “Holy Communion augments our union with Christ”. (1391) We must continue in prayer, fasting and working on our flaws. Which prepares us to co-operate with sacramental grace.

Matt 13 “Listen! A sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell on the path, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun rose, they were scorched; and since they had no root, they withered away. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. 8 Other seeds fell on good soil and brought forth grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 Let anyone with ears listen!”

 

[Neophyte1780]

But I haven’t recieved the sacrament of baptism. This finds the crux of my argument: if I can be saved without baptism then I don’t need it. If I don’t need it, then it’s non-essential. If it’s essential, then it needs to be available. It isn’t available, ergo, the current leaders of the church don’t seem to believe it’s truly essential.

Further:
If I need it, then no matter how much I strive to be holy, as St. Paul says “I am still in my sins”.

 

[humbleseeker]

^^^
Funny enough, that’s the scripture I suggested the Op reflect on all the way back at post# 6.

 

[Neophyte1780]

I appreciate the suggestion. I did read it and found some solace in it. Yet it didn’t answer my quandary. It helped me realize I ought to become the person who can truly receive the word of a Christ.

God bless

 

[humbleseeker]

The words of Christ:

Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. Matthew 18:18

However you feel about it, those invested with this authority have made a decision to suspend the sacraments to the faithful for a short period in this time of tribulation. You must decide if you will submit to this authority instituted by Christ. Or, are you the rocky ground that Jesus spoke of? Read and reflect on Matt 13: 20-21. Only you can decide if you’ll endure or fall away.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks! I always wondered what was wrong with me.

Now I know.

 

[neophyte]

The Church has agreed with the secular gov’t that the sacraments are not considered essential, unlike abortions and McDonalds

It has done nothing of the sort.

 

[Neophyte1780]

Please see the above arguments rather than giving a blanket statement without proof.