Why Can't Anyone Have A Different Opinion About The Holocaust?

[catharina]

Gabriel. I’m peaceful with my understanding of the terms used by the Holy Fathers (JP II and Benedict XVI) as they describe various events of WWII. As they might easily decide to include all the war cimes committed against civilians in the nations of Asia as ‘crimes against humanity’ I can’t imagine either Pope describing those crimes as part of the Holocaust/Shoah, a separate event based in the planned extermination of a religious people. Only you are responsible for your understanding of history. I have no further obligation to continue this discussion.

Hoping you do not take offense, I am bowing out of this exchange … . God bless you.

 

[TMC]

What people are missing about the outrage over Bishop Williamson’s remarks is that the problem is not merely that he said there were no gas chambers. He said the Holocaust was made up by the Jews. This is not a dispute over how many were killed, its a serious accusation that the Jews as a race perpetrated a vast and heinous fraud.

Here is the quote from the recent Swedish TV interview:

Reporter: “Bishop Williamson, are these your words: ‘There was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies.’ Are these your words?”

Williamson: “You’re quoting from Canada I believe, yes, many years ago. I believe that the historical evidence … is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler.”

Reporter: “So there was no gas chambers?”

Williamson: “I believe there were no gas chambers, yes.”

As you see, Williamson acknowledges that the reporter is referring to a speech he made in Canada. The speech was made in 1989. This is what he said then:

there was not one Jew killed in the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies. The Jews created the Holocaust so we would prostrate ourselves on our knees before them and approve of their new State of Israel

The outrage is not that he has a different view of what happened during the war. The outrage is about what he said happened after the war – he claims Jews made up the Holocaust as part of a Zionist plot to reclaim the Holy Land.

 

[catharina]

What people are missing about the outrage over Bishop Williamson’s remarks is that the problem is not merely that he said there were no gas chambers. He said the Holocaust was made up by the Jews. This is not a dispute over how many were killed, its a serious accusation that the Jews as a race perpetrated a vast and heinous fraud.

Here is the quote from the recent Swedish TV interview:

As you see, Williamson acknowledges that the reporter is referring to a speech he made in Canada. The speech was made in 1989. This is what he said then:

The outrage is not that he has a different view of what happened during the war. The outrage is about what he said happened after the war – he claims Jews made up the Holocaust as part of a Zionist plot to reclaim the Holy Land.

Wow. Thanks for that note of research.
The details of B. Williamson’s earlier statements are horrible.

His statements make me feel ill. Such statements coincide with the time of his rebellion. His words-on-the-record explain a lot about the Holy Father’s strong rebuke of him.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel. I’m peaceful with my understanding of the terms used by the Holy Fathers (JP II and Benedict XVI) as they describe various events of WWII. As they might easily decide to include all the war cimes committed against civilians in the nations of Asia as ‘crimes against humanity’ I can’t imagine either Pope describing those crimes as part of the Holocaust/Shoah, a separate event based in the planned extermination of a religious people. Only you are responsible for your understanding of history. I have no further obligation to continue this discussion.

Hoping you do not take offense, I am bowing out of this exchange … . God bless you.

Thank you catharina, I have learned from your posts; for this Iam greatful to you, and respectfully submit to your request.

Peace be with you:thumbsup:

 

[Soutane]

Has OTCA abandoned this topic that he/she started?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Has OTCA abandoned this topic that he/she started?

Nope, right here…

 

[Valke2]

Peace be with you catharina; this particular thread was not allowing me to post here for some reason;

You have not heard my opinion or belief’s of the Jewish atrocities. I merely addressed the OP here about the “Holocaust”. IF you know of a term that specifically addresses only the Jewish victims apart from the Woman, Children, Christians and the Ally Volunteer’s who gave up their lives (including some of my family members) to fight against these “Crimes of humanity” then lets hear it here. As another poster, posted a site here, that the Jews do not use the term “holocaust” but “Shoa”. I only ask if the Jews use this term “Shoa” to address only the Jews or do they include the Women, Children and Christians also?

Yes I do acknowledge the Woman and children have different circumstances, the Christians have different circumstances, the Ally Volunteers have different circumstances and the Jews have circumstances that may differ, but the end result was the same “death”. But the OP does not address these individually. It is not fair for you to draw such a conclusion of me, from my posts that have not addressed these.

I believe I have been fair in my opinion between the definition of word “holocaust” and the way the public defines this term. If I were to use the generic term of “Holocaust” in my speech, I include all the victims who were Women, Children, Christians, Jews and Allied Volunteers who gave up their lives to fight against these “Crimes of humanity”. The True definition of “holocaust” does not fit these “Crimes against humanity”.

The Pope’s statement defined the Jewish people’s circumstances due to the Pope’s address and the particular circumstance he found himself in due to a disgrunted priest. If you reread the Holy Father’s statement he never forgets the Women, Children and all others who fell victim to these “Crimes of humanity”. Thus my short opinion does not conflict with the Holy Father’s. Besides the Pope’s discussion does not address the OP here, You are hard pressed to parallel my opinion with Pope’s statement. In any case my opinion does not conflict in any way to the Holy Father’s statement, I hold to his definition of the “Holocaust” as “Crimes of Humanity”.

Peace be with you

I know this is just a language thing, but it is a bit unsettling to see an attempt to seperate jews from women and children. Plenty of the 6 million Jews that were exterminated were women and children.

 

[charela]

You do realize this is a “Catholic” forum. You cannot contend that there is not an Ultimate Truth. There is one and only Ultimate Truth, the Eternal Word of God - Jesus Christ.

 

[djconklin]

You do realize this is a “Catholic” forum. You cannot contend that there is not an Ultimate Truth. There is one and only Ultimate Truth, the Eternal Word of God - Jesus Christ.

AMEN! Wanting to have a different “opinion” about the Holocaust is like having a different “opinion” on what 2+2 equals.

 

[Soutane]

AMEN! Wanting to have a different “opinion” about the Holocaust is like having a different “opinion” on what 2+2 equals.

Good equation:thumbsup:

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I know this is just a language thing, but it is a bit unsettling to see an attempt to seperate jews from women and children. Plenty of the 6 million Jews that were exterminated were women and children.

Gabriel of 12:

I agree, but woman and children do not fit in the definition of “Holocaust victims” only males.

 

[Valke2]

Gabriel of 12:

I agree, but woman and children do not fit in the definition of “Holocaust victims” only males.

I see. You are arguing that “Holocaust” means burnt offering and therefore applies to the males only. So use the word “Shoah” which Jews prefer anyway. But your argument is similiar to the one used against the word “anti-semetism”. Yes, technically, a semite includes people other than jews but we all know that “anti-semite” means hatred of jews only.

 

[Ghoti]

I see. You are arguing that “Holocaust” means burnt offering and therefore applies to the males only. So use the word “Shoah” which Jews prefer anyway. But your argument is similiar to the one used against the word “anti-semetism”. Yes, technically, a semite includes people other than jews but we all know that “anti-semite” means hatred of jews only.

I think too many people get their linguistic snacks from the Pedantry Pantry.

 

[TMC]

Gabriel of 12:

I agree, but woman and children do not fit in the definition of “Holocaust victims” only males.

At the danger of legitimizing these ridiculous semantic arguments, I will point out that most Jews use the term “Shoah,”, which is also the term the Pope used in his recent statements.

 

[Soutane]

i think too many people get their linguistic snacks from the pedantry pantry.

Bwahahahaha

 

[djconklin]

I think too many people get their linguistic snacks from the Pedantry Pantry.

ROFL! That’s a keeper to be re-used over and over again!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I see. You are arguing that “Holocaust” means burnt offering and therefore applies to the males only. So use the word “Shoah” which Jews prefer anyway. But your argument is similiar to the one used against the word “anti-semetism”. Yes, technically, a semite includes people other than jews but we all know that “anti-semite” means hatred of jews only.

what do you call people who hate Catholics? Because many do, and there are far more of them.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I think too many people get their linguistic snacks from the Pedantry Pantry.

That line is a keeper!

But back on topic: I have no patience with people who try to minimize what happened in the Sho’ah. We may never know in this life exactly how many people were slaughtered by the Nazis. But no one, NO ONE in their right mind should denigrate what happened to millions of ordinary people whose only offense was being of a particular ethnic descent which some bigoted madman with too much power decided to consider to be a stain on the human race to be washed away. My sainted Irish grandfather fought in WWII, in the European theater; he was in the second wave at the Normandy landing on D-Day, June 6th, 1944 and I have an unconfirmed story that he was among the troops who liberated Dachau, one of the worst of the camps (in which many Catholic priests were imprisoned). I can’t help taking it a bit personally when people say the Sho’ah wasn’t as bad as it was, considering what my dad’s dad went through as part of the effort to break the vise-grip of evil that Hitler and his flunkys had on Europe.

 

[Peter_J]

What people are missing about the outrage over Bishop Williamson’s remarks is that the problem is not merely that he said there were no gas chambers. He said the Holocaust was made up by the Jews. This is not a dispute over how many were killed, its a serious accusation that the Jews as a race perpetrated a vast and heinous fraud.

Here is the quote from the recent Swedish TV interview:

As you see, Williamson acknowledges that the reporter is referring to a speech he made in Canada. The speech was made in 1989. This is what he said then:

The outrage is not that he has a different view of what happened during the war. The outrage is about what he said happened after the war – he claims Jews made up the Holocaust as part of a Zionist plot to reclaim the Holy Land.

Wow.

This also raises serious questions about the SSPX (not that I didn’t have doubts about them before): Why would they knowingly allow such a person to serve as a bishop of their Church (or organization, or whatever the proper term is) and rector of their seminary for so many years (just about 2 decades)?

 

[Jake_Cullen]

It’s not that you can’t have a different opinion about it but the fact that he said that no gas chambers existed is very ignorant