Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[AnimalGal]

This is not true. ALL Catholics agree that Jenkins should be fired with his entire board of trustees and Notre Dame should be reformed or closed. The problem is that many pseudo-catholics claim to be Catholics when in fact they are not, this is why uninformed people think that some Catholics have no problem with abortion.

NO, ALL Catholics do not agree on this issue or any other. Do you really believe that?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Originally Posted by Marsha Adams
This is not true. ALL Catholics agree that Jenkins should be fired with his entire board of trustees and Notre Dame should be reformed or closed. The problem is that many pseudo-catholics claim to be Catholics when in fact they are not, this is why uninformed people think that some Catholics have no problem with abortion.

I believe that if a person does not agree with my comment he/she is not a Catholic. So, yes, I do believe that all Catholics agree on this issue, and on many other issues. There are many beliefs that are so fundamental to Catholicism that one cannot be Catholic if he/she does not agree. For example, there is no such thing as a “pro-choice” Catholic. There is also no such thing as a Catholic who does not believe in the Real Presence.

 

[Teelynn]

I believe that if a person does not agree with my comment he/she is not a Catholic. So, yes, I do believe that all Catholics agree on this issue, and on many other issues. There are many beliefs that are so fundamental to Catholicism that one cannot be Catholic if he/she does not agree. For example, there is no such thing as a “pro-choice” Catholic. There is also no such thing as a Catholic who does not believe in the Real Presence.

Well, there are people who “coin” themselves Catholics that believe in abortion, same sex marriage, promote women in the priesthood, do not believe in the real presence etc., etc. Unfortunately lots of them. But no, I agree with you, these people are not Catholic.

 

[Teelynn]

I agree that we can dialog with him, but we can’t give him a public forum and an award at a Catholic college. That is wrong. Yes, let’s invite him to a meeting where we attempt to persuade him that murder of the unborn is wrong. A speech and an award at a Catholic college, however, is not “dialog”.

I agree that we should try to do it without name calling and anger. However, we need to be blunt and uncompromising when someone denies that abortion is murder.

I have to respectfully say that this is sad. The man advocates unrestricted murder of the unborn. I don’t see how that doesn’t nullify any good that he could possibly do.

God Bless,
Gary

You hit the nail on the head. Yes, we need to be charitable, but we need to do this in a strong voice. We cannot dance around the issue in a spirit of compromise for the sake of charity. (this would NOT be charity) Sometimes, this is difficult to do when one feels so passionate on the issue. This is a grace that we need to pray for. Sometimes it’s not easy to “walk softly and carry a big stick”. (and I’m referring to myself as well as others)

Also, the people that voted for President Obama in spite of his radical abortion stance, I’m not so sure they understand the implications of how detrimental abortion is to a society. I have heard even clergy state that abortion is not the only issue on the table. This indicates to me that other issues are more important in their view. I only wish they could understand that abortion is at the root of our social ills in this country. The devaluing of human life translates into the devaluing of ALL moral good.
The society that promotes and defends abortion is the society that brings **destruction **upon itself. If a society values abortion, how can they possibly value ANY moral good? Maybe they can give it the ol’ college try, but it’s an artificial attempt. Putting on a facade.

If the President would have been invited to ND for an honest “dialog” on abortion, I for one would have been thrilled. But, he was not. He was invited to hold a captive audience and to be given an honorary degree? Two entirely different things. Apples and oranges.

 

[MarcellusW]

NO, ALL Catholics do not agree on this issue or any other. Do you really believe that?

I think she might be implying that those Catholics who support abortion(pro-choice) to be automatically excommunicated, making them non-Catholics. A word doesn’t mean anything if it has individually interpreted definitions.

But it is a good OP. Why can’t or why haven’t dissident priests been dethroned so to speak?

 

[agbasinger]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

I agree. Who did Jesus dine with? Who did he come to seek and to save?

 

[7_Sorrows]

i feel Fr. Jenkins definitely needs to be replaced.

this certainly brought a lot of publicity to Notre Dame.

how will Fr. Jenkins go down in history?

 

[Catholic20064]

i feel Fr. Jenkins definitely needs to be replaced.

this certainly brought a lot of publicity to Notre Dame.

how will Fr. Jenkins go down in history?

I don’t think it would do any good for him to get fired. The Board of Trustees would just replace him with somebody who has the same views. The Board of Trustees seems to be straight out of the Chicago Democratic machine.

 

[Religion_Ninja]

I agree. Who did Jesus dine with? Who did he come to seek and to save?

If Jenkins wants to have dinner with Obama and have a real discussion about abortion, human rights, and the pro-life position (and thereby save Obama’s soul) that would be wonderful. Thats what real dialog is. That is not the same thing as giving him an award in front of the whole country.

While Jesus showed love to sinners, he never showed approval of their sins. Notre Dame, by giving Obama a honory law degree, demonstrated approval of his positions on law. They also scandalized our youth by trivializing abortion. Remember the harsh words that Jesus had for those who lead children into sin?

Since you want to compare Notre Dame and Jenkins to Jesus, here is an analogy for you:

Notre dame, giving an honorary law degree to Obama, would be like Jesus saying “don’t worry about adultery. You have done well” to the woman he told “Go and sin no more”.

Being loving and accepting of others, doesn’t mean that we are to reward positions that are desctructive to human life and human dignity.

Thats why the US Catholic bishops forbid exactly what Notre Dame did. Jenkins and Notre Dame, in their arrogance, ignored the wisdom of the US conference of Bishops.

Jenkins and Notre Dame have harmed the pro-life movement and have made a mockery of Catholic education.

 

[tm30]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

1. Jenkins is most DEFINITELY a clown, and not the happy, fun kind.
2. The term “right-wing Catholics” is deceiving and tired. The term should be “Catholics Faithful to Rome”.
3. re: dialogue, can you tell me what happened during the question-and-answer portion of the speech —oh, wait…
4. re: Common ground - I question the intellectual/spiritual prowess of a group that wants to find common ground with the works of Satan.

 

[bookgirl32]

I agree. Who did Jesus dine with? Who did he come to seek and to save?

Yes, but He did NOT come to honor them.

 

[mdgspencer]

Father Jenkins can be fired, but he would have to be fired by the Board of Trustees. I work at a traditionally Catholic school where a dissenting nun was made president several years ago. I finally have decided that the Board of Trustees accept her views, and that they have no problem with them. That may well be the case at Notre Dame too. I wonder in fact if many of the Board at Notre Dame are not Catholics at all as is the case at my own university.If he is fired it would be since the discontent among the Catholic public with his honoring an abortion President did not die out and Notre Dame faced losing students and less in donations because of it.
Some people believe that disagreement over this invitation is simply a matter of opinion. The Vatican and the U.S. bishops have both said and insisted that pro-abortion politicians should not be honored in this way by Catholic schools. It may be that those posters here that believe that it is all-right to honor President Obama in this way are not Catholics, which I would understand, however, even then they should realize that Father Jenkins is rejecting Catholic teaching when he honored the President in this way.

 

[adowcday]

Hmm, right-wing Catholics? I believe there were 70 or so Bishops that voiced their concerns as well. Perhaps you view them as right-wing Bishop extremists hell bent on a republican world view? Describing faithful Catholics as nothing more than political lackeys is disgraceful.

A reality check: There are about 280 bishops, most of who were selected by Pope John Paul II. They are, by and large, a pretty conservative bunch. About one-fourth of the bishops (70 or so) spoke out publicly against Notre Dame’s decision to award an honorary degree to Obama and to invite him to speak at the commencement. That is, three quarters of our generally conservative bishops did not speak out publicly against Notre Dame’s decision regarding President Obama.

There is nothing disgraceful about saying that many of the Catholics (including many of the U.S. bishops) who are strenuously opposing Obama are influenced by their political leanings. It’s just a fact. For those of you political liberals who oppose Obama on abortion but support him in his stances on economic stimulus; reversing Bush administration policies on the war in Iraq, treatment of detainees, Guantanamo, etc.; strengthening environmental protections; and so on, you have my apologies for grouping you together with the conservative Republicans who are using abortion as a wedge issue to steer the Catholic vote in their direction…

 

[tm30]

Let me clear up a few misconceptions: I agree with the Catholic position on abortion. I am a faithful Roman Catholic. Nothing that I said previously was contrary to Catholic teaching.

Except honoring abortion mongers. Which is the crux of the problem.

We can dialog with Muslims. Why can’t we dialog with the President of the United States, a dedicated Christian and, from all appearances, a good, thoughtful man?

You know what they say about appearances.

We can work with atheists in the Kremlin to reduce the threat of nuclear warfare. Why not work with President Obama?

I agree. Who can forget the moment President Reagen pinned the Congressional Medal of Honor on Leonid Brezhnev?

Like many faithful Catholics, I think that this President (like most of our Presidents) is a mixed bag. We should respectfully criticize him when necessary and work with him when we can.

Again, you seem to be confused on the problem. Notre Dame is a “Catholic” institution, honoring an arch-enemy of the sanctity of life and a purveyor of intrinsic evil. Obama’s politics is secondary to the scandal of Notre Dame rolling out the red carpet for him in front of the world.

There are lots of areas where we can work together.

Fine. Cardinal Chaput calls the White House and says. “Let’s have a summit. You name the time and place, and I and my fellow bishops will be there”. Obama says, “Oh of course. How’s next month at Camp David?” Seriously?

In most areas, I think this President is a dramatic improvement over Bush in areas that should matter to Catholics: war, capital punishment, equitable distribution of wealth, care for the poor and disadvantaged, care for the environment, peaceful relations with other nations, etc.

So, your take is admittedly politically motivated, but Catholics who defend infallible teaching are somehow captive to the GOP?

It’s just stupid and counter-productive if we focus only on this one issue, where there is obviously a conflict between Catholic teaching and our President (and the majority of Americans for that matter).

If we don’t have a right to life, we don’t have a right to anything that’s contingent on being alive.

The criticism of Obama that I hear among conservative Catholics is not respectful. I think it makes Catholics look ignorant and mean-spirited. It smacks of politics more than faith.

The only people who brought up politics are Obama supporters. The rest of us are focused on the defiance of the university towards the USCCB and the directive of John Paul II, not the speaker they invited.

The approach espoused by those who would snub Obama and fire Jenkins will only lead to Catholics being marginalized in the public arena.

Horse, barn, and all that.

 

[tm30]

There is nothing disgraceful about saying that many of the Catholics (including many of the U.S. bishops) who are strenuously opposing Obama are influenced by their political leanings. It’s just a fact.

It’s not disgraceful, it’s patently offensive to make this statement. How do you know the disposition of one’s political leanings versus the gravity of natural law that insists on the defense of life at all stages? You’re the only person on this thread introducing politics into the discussion, so excuse us if we’re overwhelmed by the irony. Did you conduct a scientific poll? Is there a Jenkins-commissioned University of Notre Dame study that says, “many Catholics that opposed Obama’s appearance are shills for the GOP?”

It defies comprehension.

For those of you political liberals who oppose Obama on abortion but support him in his stances on economic stimulus; reversing Bush administration policies on the war in Iraq, treatment of detainees, Guantanamo, etc.; strengthening environmental protections; and so on, you have my apologies for grouping you together with the conservative Republicans who are using abortion as a wedge issue to steer the Catholic vote in their direction…

Well we certainly know who you’re shilling for.

 

[COLOS]

A reality check: There are about 280 bishops, most of who were selected by Pope John Paul II. They are, by and large, a pretty conservative bunch. About one-fourth of the bishops (70 or so) spoke out publicly against Notre Dame’s decision to award an honorary degree to Obama and to invite him to speak at the commencement. That is, three quarters of our generally conservative bishops did not speak out publicly against Notre Dame’s decision regarding President Obama.

There is nothing disgraceful about saying that many of the Catholics (including many of the U.S. bishops) who are strenuously opposing Obama are influenced by their political leanings. It’s just a fact. For those of you political liberals who oppose Obama on abortion but support him in his stances on economic stimulus; reversing Bush administration policies on the war in Iraq, treatment of detainees, Guantanamo, etc.; strengthening environmental protections; and so on, you have my apologies for grouping you together with the conservative Republicans who are using abortion as a wedge issue to steer the Catholic vote in their direction…

Heh, knew that you’d say only a fraction of the Bishops weighed in. Let me tell you that even if only one Bishop admonishes me publicly, I will cease what I’m doing and submit to the Church. I expect any Priest to do the same.

Politics had absolutely nothing to do with my reaction to what Fr. Jenkins did. Judging by the letters I read from the Bishops, they were not motivated by politics either. We, the majority of devout Catholics, love to see the unity of the Church lived out in the lives of all Catholics. When our shepherds publicly fail to do this, we are wounded.

 

[distracted]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

i am one who agrees with OP…

Obama should not be sent the message that it is no big deal his views on abortion…

already a big % of Catholics voted for him, which sends a message… We need to stop this… NOW!!

(if you were an unborn child, i am sure you would agree)…

 

[distracted]

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Right wing Catholics? Catholics are either dissident or they conform to Catholic teachings. This is a misnomer. No such thing as a left wing or right wing Catholic. You either adhere to Catholic teaching or you don’t. You are either Catholic or you’re not. .

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:clapping:

thanks… getting very tired of peole using the word Catholic for those who are blatantly NOT Catholic!!!

The definition for Catholic should be someone who follows the teachings of the Church…

not someone who warms a bench every Sunday… (and some dont’ even do that…)

it’s pretty sad when people use the word Catholic these days and no one is every really sure waht that means…!!!

 

[distracted]

THANK YOU!

and i say you are thanking the poster for nonsense…

as stated by another poster: you are either Catholic or you are not…

and Catholic means adhering to the teachings of the Catholic Church…

(why this needs to be said is a mystery to me…)

 

[Marsha_Adams]

A reality check: There are about 280 bishops . . .

Not all of them are Catholic either. At least one of them is a liberal homosexual from Milwaukee.