Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[distracted]

, you may realize that this “single issue” is worth fighting for.

I’m PROUD to be a single issue voter…

because there is no SINGLE issue more worthy of our concern and our efforts to change this monstrous thing called legalized abortion…

There is no single issue more important than life itself…

all throughout history values other than life have been put forth as being of paramount important… during the French & Russian Revolutions and evn our own in the US… liberty has been spouted as some kind of God that trumps life,…

is it any wonder we now have liberty trumping the most innocent life of all???

when are people going to realize that human life is sacred, created in God’ s image… and that whatever we do to others, we do to God himself??? (St Mt 25;31)…

Ok, so everyone doesn’t believe the Bible… or the Church…

but i’ll bet they will believe when the value of their OWN lives comes into question…
and it will,… with euthanasia, which is alrready practiced in Oregon…

 

[distracted]

Let me clear up a few misconceptions: I agree with the Catholic position on abortion. I am a faithful Roman Catholic. Nothing that I said previously was contrary to Catholic teaching. We can dialog with Muslims. Why can’t we dialog with the President of the United States, a dedicated Christian and, from all appearances, a good, thoughtful man?

What??? Are we talking about the same person here??? dedicated Christain??? What is your definition of Christian???

isn’t it someone who practices Christianity??? Whatever happened to Thou shalt not kill??? Isn’t that part of being Christian??? When someone asked Jesus what must he do to be saved, Jesus said to obey the Commandments… i believe Thou shalt not kill is in there…

It’s just stupid and counter-productive if we focus only on this one issue, where there is obviously a conflict between Catholic teaching and our President (and the majority of Americans for that matter).

for one thing, a majority of americans do NOT have Obama’s liberal view on abortion. Most are in favor of limiting abortion severly if not entirely eliminating it.

The criticism of Obama that I hear among conservative Catholics is not respectful.

maybe if we were talking about a respectful view on baby murdering… things would be different…kinda hard to respect some things… .

The fact is that a majority of Catholics (yes, faithful Catholics) voted for Obama and continue to agree in the main with his leadership. I did and I do.

Who are these CAtholics who voted for him.? Where did the surveyor find them? On the streets? If you were to go to daily Mass around the country and afterwards, ask the parishioners who they voted for, you would undoubtedly NOT get a majority…

again, (and for the 1000th time): A Catholic is one who adheres to the teachings of the Catholic Church…

 

[Havard]

Not all of them are Catholic either. At least one of them is a liberal homosexual from Milwaukee.

Yeah, but he’s retired, I don’t even know how the Church weighs statements made by retired bishops in terms of authority.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Yeah, but he’s retired, I don’t even know how the Church weighs statements made by retired bishops in terms of authority.

Havard:

You are right. But my point is that just because some bishops did not rebuke Fr. Jenkins, does not mean those bishops were correct, or that they were necessarily of oppoisite opinions. Some of those bishops might even have voted for Obama themselves, but that just means that they are not obedient Catholics. If a Bishop rejects the teachings of the Church, I would say that Bishop isn’t even Catholic.

 

[EeyoresButerfly]

Why all the hate for Obama and the Democratic party?

Let’s be realistic, neither party is consistent with our views. Pro-life is pro all life. Bush and his cronies entered the US into an unjust war which has cost many people, civilians and soldiers alike to lose their lives. The party also heavily supports the death penalty which is also against our teachings.

Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don’t see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn’t accomplished much now has it?

 

[Scoobyshme]

Why all the hate for Obama and the Democratic party?

Let’s be realistic, neither party is consistent with our views. Pro-life is pro all life. Bush and his cronies entered the US into an unjust war which has cost many people, civilians and soldiers alike to lose their lives. The party also heavily supports the death penalty which is also against our teachings.

Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don’t see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn’t accomplished much now has it?

But not all issues should be given the same weight in your consideration. For example, economic issues are not as important as right to life issues. We have a prima facae right to live in an economically healthy society. But we have an ultima facae right to life! An ultima facae right trumps a prima facae right every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Be careful not to compromise your Catholic beliefs for the sake of “seeming fair.” There are some issues that trump all other issues combined. Right to life is one of them. The Nazis could have said, “Well, yes, we killed six million Jews, but look at the wonderful highways and infrastructre we created! Look at all the jobs we now have in Germany! Look at the big picture and don’t be a one issue voter!” Tell that to the Jews who lost family. And apply this to abortion.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Will someone please explain to me why Fr. Jenkins cannot be fired? What authority does the Church have over this former Catholic university, anyway? Can’t we remove their Catholic charter or something, if they don’t remove him? Can’t we just clean house? I mean, really! It’s time to stop procrastinating and trying to be “nice guys.” We need to make an example of this clown, and we need to do it sooner rather than later. There needs to be a strong connection in the mind of folks similar to Jenkins that if you conduct yourself like this, you get slapped down…hard.

The board of directors are lay people so they would be the one to fire him if he were to be fired. I honestly think Fr. Jenkins needs excommunicated.

 

[tm30]

Why all the hate for Obama and the Democratic party?

Let’s be realistic, neither party is consistent with our views.

No one is arguing that they are. The only people introducing politics into the debate are those who supported Jenkins, because it’s a convenient deflection of the substance of the issue. Those who supported Jenkins/Obama have done absolutely nothing to address abortion in this discussion because it simply can’t be defended. So the next best thing is to change the subject by insinuating we’re all members of the John Birch Society conspiring to embarrass Obama, just because we can.

Pro-life is pro all life.

Cockroaches too?

Bush and his cronies entered the US into an unjust war which has cost many people, civilians and soldiers alike to lose their lives.

History will judge accordingly. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The party also heavily supports the death penalty which is also against our teachings.

Actually it’s not. The Church has prudentially judged that there are almost no circumstances that warrant it, given advanced incarceration systems, but it’s not intrinsically evil, like abortion. There could be circumstances where it’s justified. That said, I agree with the Church, and don’t believe America should have the death penalty. However, I would not be in danger of excommunication if I disagreed. I would definitely be in danger of excommunication (latae sententiae) by supporting politicians that promote abortion.

Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be.

It’s the paramount evil. Denying God the right to bring life into the world, and inflicting death on the poorest of the poor (the unborn) cries out to heaven for vengeance.

What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance?

They’re not mutually exclusive issues. We’re a big country run by adults who can do two things at once.

Problem is, we can address healthcare till the cows come home, but if we don’t address the incongruity of demanding the right to heal some while defending the right to outright murder others makes any discussion pointless.

Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

Or maybe he just doesn’t care about unborn children. The evidence of his voting record, his appointing of radically pro-abortion officials to his staff and cabinet, and his professed desire to sign FOCA overwhelm the rhetoric of “no politician is perfect”. The problem is, when someone has power that comes from God, it is morally incumbent for that person to PROTECT the poorest of the poor and defend the sanctity of life. He’s the President of the United States. He has the biggest bully pulpit in the world. The world listens to his every word. His party runs Congress. He has immeasurable influence. If, as you believe, he’s not in favor of abortion, but is just too scared to speak up, he’s not fit to be a leader. The facts indicate, however, that this President wants no abortion left behind.

I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don’t see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn’t accomplished much now has it?

Again, no one has brought politics into this except Obama supporters. We’re not out there quoting Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin. We’re quoting Cardinal Chaput, Cardinal George, John Paul II, Archbishop Dolan, etc. What political party do they belong to? Because I thought they were prelates of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

Eeyores Buterfly:

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn’t like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.

 

[Catholic20064]

EeyoresButerfly;5230883:

Abortion is not the only

issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

If there were a candidate who planned on providing 100% healthcare, wipe out hunger, and guaranteed quality of life for the elderly he/she would bankrupt the country. There is no way the U.S. government can effectively do everything you claim it should do. It wouldn’t be prudent to bankrupt the country and destroy the economy. It is obligatory that life be respected from the time of conception. We’re not talking pie in the sky here – the U.S. government does have the power to make laws that would make it illegal for a doctor to perform an abortion. It doesn’t have the power to effectively provide everyone with quality health care and a worry-free life without destroying the economy and making everyone poorer. A President does have the power to appoint people to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe vs. Wade, but it won’t happen until Catholics are willing to vote for a pro-choice candidate. All we likely need is one more conservative justice to overturn Roe vs. Wade, but liberal Catholics are too blinded by their pie-in-the-sky economic theories to do something to save the unborn.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

If there were a candidate who planned on providing 100% healthcare, wipe out hunger, and guaranteed quality of life for the elderly he/she would bankrupt the country. There is no way the U.S. government can effectively do everything you claim it should do.

It was a hypothetical example, which is why the first word in the sentence was “suppose”. The point is even if it were possible, the one issue of life trumps all of the other things.

 

[Catholic20064]

It was a hypothetical example, which is why the first word in the sentence was “suppose”. The point is even if it were possible, the one issue of life trumps all of the other things.

Sorry – I was confused by the quotation. It looks like Eeyore Butterfly was the one claiming the U.S. government health care policy was more important than abortion. He/she is wrong of course.

 

[Catholic20064]

I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don’t see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn’t accomplished much now has it?

The Republicans won’t accomplish anything until the party of death (the Democrats) get with it and start opposing abortion unless the entire Catholic population of the U.S. decides to support politicians who will protect innocent life. By the way the last two Democratic presidents have been pro-capital punishment. Capital punishment is not an intrinsic evil. It is a matter of prudential judgment. Abortion is an intrinsic evil.

How you get people the best health care, whether or not you pursue a war, and many other issues are prudential judgments in which honorable people can disagree. Abortion is an intrinsic evil.

I would have to say that a politician in favor of universal health care and making sure everyone has enough to eat, etc. is probably going to fail. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The only way universal health care works is if you ration health care. That means some people are going to die because they don’t get the health care they need. The best thing the government can do is make sure the poor have health care rather than making “universal” coverage mandatory.

Abortion is the civil rights issue of our time even though some would have you believe it is gay marriage! We need to get our priorities straight and protect innocent life.

 

[mdgspencer]

This discussion is losing track of the original issue. The Pope and the U.S. bishops collectively have both insisted that pro-abortion politicans should not be honored by Catholic schools as President Obama has been honored. This would hold true if the pro-abortion politician was a Republican. The Church sees abortion as a great crime, and I think it wonderful that the Church stands firm in the matter and proceeds to act and not just provide words.

EeyoresButerfly;5230883:

Abortion is not the only

issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

Eeyores Buterfly:

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn’t like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.

 

[Religion_Ninja]

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn’t like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.

I hope those complaining about “one issue” voting use that reasoning simply because they don’t realize how evil abortion really is. They can’t possibly think its murder can they?

Whats is more scary? “Catholics” who think that abortion isn’t murder so its just not a big deal or “Catholics” who *do *think that it is murder and just don’t think the murder of millions of babies is a serious enough issue to sway their vote. I think the latter are more scary.

 

[LoveJesus]

What is this, The Inquisition? I’m sure that nobody on this forum has the power to excommunicate anybody from the Church, so this “you’re not Catholic” stuff is nonsense. This isn’t an elite club for the “goody-goody”. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not for saints.

I wish I saw as much outrage over all of the atrocities happening to people on this earth right now…especially children.

Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

All we can do about abortion is try to prevent it from happening. And laws aren’t going to fully do the trick…it’s going to take a huge change in the cultural views of life to do that. Yet, so many poor and vulnerable people (especially children) are being wiped off the face of the earth (like a holocaust).

 

[fix]

I hope those complaining about “one issue” voting use that reasoning simply because they don’t realize how evil abortion really is. They can’t possibly think its murder can they?

Whats is more scary? “Catholics” who think that abortion isn’t murder so its just not a big deal or “Catholics” who *do *think that it is murder and just don’t think the murder of millions of babies is a serious enough issue to sway their vote. I think the latter are more scary.

Yes, that is the point.

 

[adowcday]

For more context, here is the response to Obama’s speech by L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. It serves to show just how out of touch with the rest of the world (including the Vatican!) many U.S. Catholics (including many U.S. bishops) are. No surprise: the Vatican has differed markedly with the U.S. episcopate over such issues as war, capital punishment, etc.

Rome, Italy, May 20, 2009 / 06:24 pm (CNA).- The Editor-in-chief of the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano explained today to Paulo Rodari, a Vatican analyst for the daily “Il Riformista,” that President Barack Obama’s speech to graduates of Notre Dame was very respectful and that he “is not a pro-abortion president.”

In the interview with Rodari, Editor-in-chief Gian Maria Vian discussed his thoughts on President Obama at the University of Notre Dame. “Obama has not upset the world,” he said. “His speech at Notre Dame has been respectful toward every position. He tried to engage the debate stepping out from every ideological position and outside every ‘confrontational mentality.’ To this extent his speech is to be appreciated.”

Vian continued, “Let me be clear, L’Osservatore stands where the American bishops are: we consider abortion a disaster. We must promote, always and at every level a ‘culture of life’.”

“What I want to stress is that yesterday, on this precise and very delicate issue, the President said that the approval of the new law on abortion is not a priority of his administration. The fact that he said that is very reassuring to me. It also underlines my own clear belief: Obama is not a pro-abortion president,” he told Rodari.

 

[mdgspencer]

We are losing track of the topic. If a politician deliberately acted to cause 1 million children to die died of malaria, he should not be honored by a Catholic school too. I agree with you if you are saying something of the sort. Similarly, a poltician who implements the abortion of millions of children should not be honored as well.
Those who act to give health care to such children so that fatality rates will be lowered, are like those who act to make abortion illegal, and, as in this particular matter, who do not honor those who implement abortion.

The original message is: Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

All we can do about abortion is try to prevent it from happening. And laws aren’t going to fully do the trick…it’s going to take a huge change in the cultural views of life to do that. Yet, so many poor and vulnerable people (especially children) are being wiped off the face of the earth (like a holocaust).

 

[adowcday]

The Republicans won’t accomplish anything until the party of death (the Democrats) get with it and start opposing abortion unless the entire Catholic population of the U.S. decides to support politicians who will protect innocent life.

So much for those who thought it so horrifying and disgusting that I would think that Catholic critics of Obama might be politically motivated. It’s all about defending innocent life? Well, not so much…