Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[peregrinus_WA]

I can understand how up setting this all is peregrinus_wa and I admit our predecessors like the knights of Malta fought hard battles defending our faith which I am proud of.
Times have changed my friend; we no longer need to physically fight for our faith.
This is more of a spiritual war the only defense we have is our true faith, something that Mr. Jenkins clearly does not have, we must pray that God keeps us from becoming weak sheep.

Since I saw that you were out to my blog, I would suggest you re-read the entries under “The Next Real Crusade”. Plus many of the other entries linked to the category on the main page. Specifically:

A real crusade must be in the real world and must fight real battles. I am not necessarily talking about physical blood and guts battles (although it may, unfortunately, come to that at some point). I am talking taking people on one on one in the public square.

Violence must be a last resort, but we must prepare for it if they comes to us not us to them.

 

[tm30]

What is this, The Inquisition? I’m sure that nobody on this forum has the power to excommunicate anybody from the Church

Actually, you have the power to excommunicate yourself. No one here needs that power over anyone else.

, so this “you’re not Catholic” stuff is nonsense. This isn’t an elite club for the “goody-goody”. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not for saints.

Meanwhile, pretending the patient isn’t sick makes a cure unlikely.

I wish I saw as much outrage over all of the atrocities happening to people on this earth right now…especially children.

Children are being aborted this very second. Am I missing something?

Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

I’m outraged. Now what about abortion?

All we can do about abortion is try to prevent it from happening. And laws aren’t going to fully do the trick

So it’s an all or none scenario? If we illegalize abortion, there will still be underground abortions, so let’s not bother? You know what, let’s get rid of EVERY law, since no law can conceivably stop people from murdering, stealing, perjuring, etc.

…it’s going to take a huge change in the cultural views of life to do that.

Really? We’re a culture and nation that thrives on what one man (Thomas Jefferson) wrote down about “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” So, I submit that the rule of law does have the ability to change the cultural views of life, if we’re not afraid to state our beliefs.

Yet, so many poor and vulnerable people (especially children) are being wiped off the face of the earth (like a holocaust).

As soon as you can figure out how to infiltrate and re-legislate all of those despot governments, we’ll get moving on it. Meanwhile, you live in America and have the power to make a difference here. Read what John Paul II wrote about patriotism.

 

[tm30]

look here’s the reality the overwhelming majority of catholics in america don’t care or support obama speaking at ND. i know posting here a lot can warp your view about how the “catholic street” views things. this site is overwhelming orthodox catholic, but in the real world the laity is NOT orthodox, most are liberal or catholcis who pick and choose what they want to follow.

so why should the vatican, or anyone else raise a stink when the vat majority of your church supports ND and Obama?

Because we’re not a democratic faith.

 

[OriginalJS]

Because we’re not a democratic faith.

Admitted. But the Vatican is still a state, it conducts foreign relations, and it is circumspect in its actions. It is not going to risk hampering relations with the President of the United States, or seeming out of touch with millions of American Catholics over the choice of a university commencement speaker. Effective diplomacy is not conducted in so unsophisticated a manner. I have expressed this opinion before and some have taken umbrage at it, but I am just stating what seems to me to be true. If the Vatican does take any action against Father Jenkins because of Obama’s speech or honorary degree at ND, I’ll stand corrected.

 

[tcm22]

Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

I can’t believe I actually read this…If there were human beings setting up shop in our towns and cities for the sole purpose of giving children malaria in order to kill them there would be outrage beyond all comprehension.

Anyone who can make that analogy with a straight face is absolutely misguided.

1 million deaths by malaria are a tragedy and sadden my heart. They are not, however, intentionally caused for the convenience of the parents. That’s the difference in outrage.

 

[CoachSTL]

So much for those who thought it so horrifying and disgusting that I would think that Catholic critics of Obama might be politically motivated. It’s all about defending innocent life? Well, not so much…

adowcday,

I have been reading your posts. What do you mean when you say, a “right wing” Catholic? Can you clarify this for me?

coachstl

 

[bmadamsberry]

I had no problem with Obama coming to Notre Dame and giving the commencement speech, because this is a very high honor for the students and the university. This does not necessarily mean that the university agrees with him, but rather that it acknowledges his importance and high position in society. The fact, however, that the university gave him an honorary degree troubles me because that would show that the university supports him. Regardless, I still have plans to attend Notre Dame University’s law school in 2 years.**

 

[244Rocket]

Your position saddens me, but even sadder is that you are not alone in your opinion. What is missing from your post, Obama’s speech, Fr. Jenkins’ remarks, Doug Kmiec’s commentary on the speech, etc. are the true facts about the murder that is taking place every day. This empty rhetoric about “working together” and “compromise” ignores the fact that unborn children are being slaughtered every day under the guise of “the right to choose”. If you would speak to people whose lives have been shattered because they murdered their children though abortion or health care workers who have seen the corpses of the dead babies, you may realize that this “single issue” is worth fighting for. Obama’s actions (both past and present) do not indicate that he wants to reduce the number of abortions, despite what he says. He is not a friend of the pro-life movement and should not be given a forum at a Catholic University. I am sorry that you and many others have been fooled by his “feel good” vague speeches. It serves as a reminder to me that there is still much education that needs to be done, especially among Catholics. There is no way that anyone who really understands what abortion is would be fooled by this “razzle dazzle”.

God Bless,
Gary

Outstanding reply. Obama voted four times in the Illinois Senate to deny medical help to a baby that survived an abortion. He apparently could stand and watch a newborn suffer until it died. He is not fit to be invited to any Catholic institution. There is no way he is interested in dialogue, that’s just some of the fluff he spews daily.

 

[elizabeth22]

IMHO, any Catholic that voted for Obama, knowing full well his stance on abortion, is a Catholic in name only. As practicing Catholics we all know the teachings of the church on abortion, it is a grave evil, period. If you support a candidate that supports abortion,then you are a party to that act, and you cannot do it. No gray area, no waffling on the issue, you support life. As far as giving Obama an honorary law degree, he’s been in office four months, what has he done to earn such an honor from a Catholic University? Is it that he’s filled his staff and cabinet positions with pro life appointees? Not so far. The most telling is that he voted against the ban on partial birth abortion. Seems most everything he voted on in the Senate is in direct contradiction to the Magisterium of the Church. And it’s reasonably certain he’ll carry that through into his presidency. I can’t figure out what in the world Fr. Jenkins was thinking when he invited Obama to speak, much less the honorary degree. O.K. start a dialogue, pray, but that honorary degree is shocking, and a disappointment coming from Fr. Jenkins.

 

[GOPCatholic93]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

Most people don’t mind that he was invited because it is tradition. The scandal is because that they gave him an honorary degree, effectively telling students to model themselves after him, a radical pro-abortion politician.

 

[TotusTuusIesu]

I disagree with most of the comments on the first page, and I didn’t bother to read through another five pages of the same stuff, but I’m just going to throw my opinion out on the table:

The Catholic Church has existed long before modern politics, before left- and right-wingers, and definitely before the issue of abortion. Considering that, and acknowledging what Catholicism really is (a Faith, built on Christ, with the mission of proclaiming Truth - NOT a political entity or some sort of organization to be joined simply to gain the title of “Catholic”), it seems that, to anyone really serious about their religious affiliation, their faith, a Catholic is someone who stands by Catholicism and, even if part of the Faith confuses them, would try to learn more and pray for the gift of understanding. As someone who is politically liberal-minded, I still put Catholicism before politics. While at first it was hard for me to come to terms with the fact that, by having Obama give the commencement address at UND, Fr. Jenkins had gone against Pope John Paul II’s issue on Catholic colleges years ago, I eventually realized that there is a reason JPII issued that. If the Church doesn’t define things, especially in today’s world, relativism is bound to take over. Somewhere, the line must be drawn. At Notre Dame, politics, reputation, and appeal have been put in front of the Faith for years, and it’s a bit obvious with the most recent occurence. As Catholics, I think we should be able to unite under the mantle of Our Lady and agree that the whole thing has been a scandal. By definition, a scandal is, “A publicized incident that brings about disgrace or offends the moral sensibilities of society.” If we are Catholics, not relativists, we must retain some moral sensibilities.

Just my take. Sorry if slightly incoherent; exam week! =(

+JMJD

 

[pipntisha]

This is not true. ALL Catholics agree that Jenkins should be fired with his entire board of trustees and Notre Dame should be reformed or closed. The problem is that many pseudo-catholics claim to be Catholics when in fact they are not, this is why uninformed people think that some Catholics have no problem with abortion.

You speak for all Catholics? Not for me!

 

[Roy5]

BRIEFLY STATED

Fr. Jenkins is a man of great courage, one of my heroes. He also gave an outstanding address. I was unaware of him previously, but I now think of him as an most admirable person. May God bless him!

 

[tcm22]

BRIEFLY STATED

Fr. Jenkins is a man of great courage, one of my heroes. He also gave an outstanding address. I was unaware of him previously, but I now think of him as an most admirable person. May God bless him!

What is it you admire about him? The fact that he took a politically expedient approach in direct conflict with the teachings of the Church he pledged to live by? Seems to me he let the glamor of a politically popular President overcome his duty to uphold Church teaching.

I fail to see the courage in his decision. Whether you agree with the Church’s teaching of on abortion, the Bishop’s guidelines, or the obligation of obedience among Catholic clergy, Fr Jenkins is supposed to.

I think he’s a coward. Courage would have been to stand up for what the Church says is right and withstand the inevitable firestorm of criticism that would have been heaped on both him and the University by the left and the media had he acted in accordance with Church guidance.

You comments are a sad testament to today’s society. Moral expediency is now saluted as “courage.”

 

[imperial]

BRIEFLY STATED

Fr. Jenkins is a man of great courage, one of my heroes. He also gave an outstanding address. I was unaware of him previously, but I now think of him as an most admirable person. May God bless him!

You mean God bless and hold those aborted innocent children don’t you? the ones that are murdered
God Bless him? WOW
Blessed are the children, innocent blood
Surely you mean God bless those that defend innocent blood
You know the meek and humble

 

[Roy5]

The cowardly thing to do would have been to cave in to the shouting mob that demanded that the invitation to the President should be rescinded. Fr. Jenkins gave a superb speech. Most of the screamers for him to resign (or be kicked out) are hard-headed Republicans who despise Obama. I think Obama needs to be given a chance, Moreover, Obama achieved enormous things during his limited years, including long-time service on the streets of a Black ghetto once had graduated from Harvard Law School while nearly all his classmates headed for law firms that paid huge salaries. This is Christianity in action rather than the greed we see so much of in America today.

 I know that to many good people, including many Catholics, abortion seems to be the issue that supercedes all others. Obama wants to see fewer and fewer abortions, as they will never go away whether they are legal or illegal. Personally, I think that in certain conditions abortion could be the lesser evil. For example, if an abortion could save the life of the mother of several young children. Or, if a girl is gang-raped. I am equally concerned about the health and welfare of the living. Besides, the large majority of abortions are natural - miscarriages. Who causes them? God? I'm sure that their souls and the souls of all babies who die, whether in the womb or in the crib, find eternal happiness and peace in the arms of Jesus. I worry as much, or more, about innocent young men and women sent to kill other innocent people in unnecessary wars caused in large measure by greedy industrialists, politicians and tyrants. The Pope condemned the invasion of Iraq, and I bet many of the anti-Obama crowd didn't speak out against that diversion from our real enemy in Afghanistan. Etc.

 Much more to say, but - again - God bless Fr. Jenkins, God bless President Obama, God bless America - and, yes, God bless the whole world, no exceptions. That includes you, whatever your opinion.

 PS By the way, I am NOT and never have been a Democrat. I am suspicious of both parties and vote independently.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

You speak for all Catholics? Not for me!

A genuine Catholic is obedient to the Church. Yes, I speak for all genuine Catholics. It should bother you as a self professed Catholic that you are in agreement with the Protestants postings as opposed to those who post in obedience to the Church.

 

[CoachSTL]

Jenkins won’t be fired and he shouldn’t be. Like every recent NDU president before him, he invited the President to the commencement. Every recent president has been invited, and Jenkins did not break with that tradition. Notre Dame is a private university and Jenkins reports to his Board, which apparently agrees with his decision. Although this is not adequately represented on CA forums, most Catholics do not agree with you that Jenkins should be fired and Notre Dame punished. Jenkins is not a clown – he is a leader, and he won’t give in to pressure from right-wing Catholics to turn Catholicism into a one-issue religious sect that shrinks from engagement with those who disagree with us. I applaud his decision. I also applaud Obama for a remarkable speech, one of his best. Obama is willing to engage in reasoned, fair-minded dialogue and to find common ground on which to move forward together. That should be our desire as well.

adowcday,

I am still waiting for your definition on what you mean by a “right wing” Catholic".

Thank you.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Most of the screamers for him to resign (or be kicked out) are hard-headed Republicans who despise Obama.

It appeared to me that most of the people were not politically motivated but motivated by the horror of abortion with most likely consciences informed by the Church and prayer.

during his limited years, including long-time service on the streets of a Black ghetto once had graduated from Harvard Law School while nearly all his classmates headed for law firms that paid huge salaries. This is Christianity in action rather than the greed we see so much of in America today.

 

[nycjtcrane]

To all the “right wing Catholics”, the same ones who are hypocritical by how they try to force their views on everyone else in protest and at the same time are the same ones who go to Notre Dame or any other Catholic university and have the abortions or engage in any sinful way against Church teachings. I pray for you. To simply try to deny the Leader of the Free World his acceptance to speak at commencement; just reflects how distant your heart is and how true right wing you have become. What about a famous celebrity, who claims to be a conservative Catholic, one who states his “marriage” has not been this for 3 years and who has a girlfriend that he brazenly acknowledges on a popular late night show that she is pregnant. How do you feel about this? And we all should pray…