Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

[sw85]

Of course SW85 and many women say this is all stupid, they say “just be yourself”, that The Graphic® is insane and not true to reality, and eventually, nice girl and nice guy will bump into each other.

Actually, I would not say “just be yourself” if you understand “just be yourself” to mean “people should love you just the way you are.” I do not preclude the possibility that you are actually personally unloveable and may need to undergo radical personal transformation before you are able to attract a decent woman. I did. Many guys do. No guy is so special that he’s above having to change (for the better), or that the world would be worse off if he did.

My point – be whatever it is you actually are (as opposed to “act nice” or “act bad” or “act” anything) – is that women are attracted to SELF-CONFIDENCE more than any particular personality trait. Which is why they may sometimes be more attracted to confident jerks than to diffident “nice guys” (who are often just bitter and sex-obsessed narcissists).

My suggestion, if you want to learn self-confidence, is to get really really really good at something and then find other people who also like that same thing. Take a French class. Master the piano. Take up woodworking. Read the collected works of Shakespeare. It doesn’t matter – just pick a thing and master it.

 

[Estevao]

You do realize that nice guy doesn’t have to turn into jerk, and nice girl does have the choice not to turn into a jerkette right? I mean, I’m fairly certain that you were saying all this tongue in cheek with a degree of truth, but people can choose to remain unchanged by the evil actions of those around them… Difficult, yes. Impossible or improbable, no.

I would agree that a few bad apples, spoils the bunch. In your model you admit that jerk would spoil (I don’t mean pamper here, but ruin) a nice girl… so why you think that would make for a happy marriage, I have no idea. Recipe for disaster,. Maybe some men don’t know the difference between being exciting and being bad. Maybe they are hardwired to think exciting always equals being ‘bad’, danger etc,? You can be civil and exciting and moral. Its totally possible.

Very good. As I was writing through Estevao’s Official Statement™, I came to this fatal flaw in the modern dating scene. It is, as you rightly say, a recipe for disaster. I just kept going though, hoping nobody would notice.

To repeat my comparison between Estevao’s Official Statement™ and the modern philosophy, they both have a fatal flaw: the former does not allow for people to live happy marriages, and in fact is destroying marriages. The latter has one too but this isn’t the philosophy forum. May they both come crashing down soon and we can return to the good old days.

Almost afraid to ask what "grinding celibacy’ means. ! Sounds kind of risque.

It’s the “masculine mystique” of wanting to have a girlfriend but not having one and having to go throughout your day to day “grind” in celibacy.

As those of us living in this state often say, it is “that feel when no gf.”

 

[underacloud]

My Official Statement™ doesn’t work in real life as you say, but lots of people think it’s true and believe it.

I only hope that something will happen to make it all come crashing down. Same goes for the modern philosophy.

Oh, I see. So it’s more your commentary on the modern predominantly-secular dating scene than it is your advice on how to successfully navigate it?

 

[Estevao]

Oh, I see. So it’s more your commentary on the modern predominantly-secular dating scene than it is your advice on how to successfully navigate it?

Well it seems to me that nice guy and nice girl don’t often find themselves on the modern dating scene, so it depends on what you mean by “success”, getting any old woman or getting the nice girl.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Actually, I would not say “just be yourself” if you understand “just be yourself” to mean “people should love you just the way you are.” I do not preclude the possibility that you are actually personally unloveable and may need to undergo radical personal transformation before you are able to attract a decent woman. I did. Many guys do. No guy is so special that he’s above having to change (for the better), or that the world would be worse off if he did.

My point – be whatever it is you actually are (as opposed to “act nice” or “act bad” or “act” anything) – is that women are attracted to SELF-CONFIDENCE more than any particular personality trait. Which is why they may sometimes be more attracted to confident jerks than to diffident “nice guys” (who are often just bitter and sex-obsessed narcissists).

My suggestion, if you want to learn self-confidence, is to get really really really good at something and then find other people who also like that same thing. Take a French class. Master the piano. Take up woodworking. Read the collected works of Shakespeare. It doesn’t matter – just pick a thing and master it.

Yes… this is right up there with Blue Eyed Lady’s post, this one is spot on too… For both men and women. I’m not sure if they teach this sort of stuff to adolescents anymore now that coming of age ceremonies are basically benign celebrations to just ‘have’, without the real meaning of it attached. - What I mean by that is that men and women were taught that childhood had to be set aside and certain responsibilities and behavior was to be expected.

 

[Estevao]

Actually, I would not say “just be yourself” if you understand “just be yourself” to mean “people should love you just the way you are.” I do not preclude the possibility that you are actually personally unloveable and may need to undergo radical personal transformation before you are able to attract a decent woman. I did. Many guys do. No guy is so special that he’s above having to change (for the better), or that the world would be worse off if he did.

My point – be whatever it is you actually are (as opposed to “act nice” or “act bad” or “act” anything) – is that women are attracted to SELF-CONFIDENCE more than any particular personality trait. Which is why they may sometimes be more attracted to confident jerks than to diffident “nice guys” (who are often just bitter and sex-obsessed narcissists).

My suggestion, if you want to learn self-confidence, is to get really really really good at something and then find other people who also like that same thing. Take a French class. Master the piano. Take up woodworking. Read the collected works of Shakespeare. It doesn’t matter – just pick a thing and master it.

I mostly agree.

Hmm, maybe I am a bitter, sex-obsessed narcissist who doesn’t have much confidence. You might be onto something. But hey people have sex drives you know. Are these bad boys that don’t spend the weekend alone and always have some girl on the go, are they genial, pure-thinking unselfish saints? Is that how they get so much female attention so easily?

Although I think the key word is women are attracted to self-confidence more than any other personality trait. There are other traits that women like in their men.

I remember hearing about this supposed turn on for women in that south park movie, chicks dig confidence it taught me at a young age. It never seemed to really kick in though no matter how many languages I learned and attempted to speak with other folks with or how much quality literature I read or how many hobbies I tried out.

But beyond personality that still leaves out the wallet, the facial aesthetics, the height and other various physical measurements. Or social traits like other women being attracted to you, i.e. being pre-approved, and social prowess. This is hard to establish without those physical traits but it can be done. That is where the rubber hits the road when it comes to easy female attention.

Well I’ve had enough fun complaining about tfw no gf for the night.

 

[underacloud]

Well it seems to me that nice guy and nice girl don’t often find themselves on the modern dating scene, so it depends on what you mean by “success”, getting any old woman or getting the nice girl.

I consider my wife nice, and every woman I dated before her bar one (who I only dated for about two weeks). I’d also like to think of myself as nice, but perhaps that’s for others to decide.

And I had my heart broken along the way, but I don’t think of the girl as a jerkette. And if anything the experience prompted me to be nicer in subsequent relationships, which is the exact opposite of your model.

So if anything, dating taught me two important things in trying to find a potential spouse: a) be nicer, and b) look for someone nicer.

 

[Xantippe]

Like most men, I’m looking for a wife to love, cherish, honor. How it used to work is you’d go to the church and find a woman who was down for that, and you’d get married around the age of 20-22 and have a nice large loving family, and maybe get some vocations to help out the church. However, the dating scene has changed.

**Not really–at least not with regard to age. Here’s my trusty table of median ages of marriage in the US, 1890-2010:

infoplease.com/ipa/A0005061.html**

As you can see, while 20-22 might not have been an unreasonable age for women to marry from 1890-1980, it was completely different for men. In 1890, the median first time groom was 26. While that number steadily declined through the first half of the 20th century, bottoming out at 22.8 in 1950 and 1960, that’s as low as it got and ever since 1960 it’s been rising and rising. Interestingly, by 1990, the median age at first marriage for men was 26.1, which was virtually identical to the age at first marriage 100 years earlier, a very curious fact. In any case, the low of 22.8 for men in 1950 and 1960 was just a blip. Meanwhile, women started at a median of 22 in 1890 and bottomed out at 20.3 in 1950/1960.

(Of course, it’s possible that the numbers were totally different for Catholics.)

Why so late? Well, consider what it meant to marry in 1890 and early 20th century, what the material conditions and how long it would take to establish oneself professionally and acquire a reasonable home to bring a wife to and how nonexistent the social safety net was then. And bear in mind that the young couple needed to be prepared for the fact that they would start having children early and often. Under the circumstances, it’s not at all surprising that 26 was the median age for first marriage for men.

**The idea of early marriage for men in the past who weren’t extremely wealthy is largely a mirage.

If you don’t believe me, start googling famous 19th century people and their age at marriage.

Example (didn’t have patience to calculate precisely, so may be off by one):

Prince Albert (age ~20–consort to the Queen of England)
Alexander Pushkin (age ~32)
Leo Tolstoy (age ~34)
Pierre Curie (age ~36)
Abraham Lincoln (age ~33)
Thomas Edison (age 24)
Wagner (age 23)

**

Now, post sexual revolution, you have to play the dating game described in the above quote, because for the moulders of the dating game, it’s more “fun” and “exciting”, unlike how it was before during the era of the “feminine mystique” of nuclear families and early marriage. Notice how the nice guy and the nice girl are at the opposite ends of the cycle and, as you can see, nice guy and nice guy never bump into each other (remember, The Graphic® holds for the majority of interactions, there are exceptions, such as traditional groups like trad catholics, amish, and other religious, non-secular groups. Or sometimes the stars align…)

Nope–you don’t have to play that game unless you choose to play it.

So assuming you avoid entering the dating scene described by The Graphic® (as many men do, preferring to spend their time playing video games, partying, or chasing money and power) you have to “game” women and game them hard to get any attention. This is what the “jerk” (a.k.a. Bad-Boy) excels at. the “jerk” also has a very socially proficient character, is very “mysterious” yet also very popular, and is able to have lots of women chasing after him so he is pre-approved by other women, which makes you attractive to women, especially that nice girl.
**
???

Any sensible woman is going to see right through that–or at least she will once she’s met a few and has had time to grow up and figure out how stuff works.

**

Hopefully, the “jerk” and nice girl are able to settle down one day and have a nice family, once the wear and tear from the dating scene heal.

**That sounds like the underwear gnomes.

Phase 1: marry jerk!
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Live happily ever after!

Phase 2 seems underdeveloped.**

Of course SW85 and many women say this is all stupid, they say “just be yourself”, that The Graphic® is insane and not true to reality, and eventually, nice girl and nice guy will bump into each other.

**They often do.

Have you ever talked to a married CAF guy who accepts your theories?
**

However, the reality is that there are millions of frustrated chumps out there doing just that who are living in grinding celibacy. They have tried to get the nice girl without entering the scene which The Graphic® described.

**I wonder how nice they actually were to begin with. I suspect not very.

Back in real life, niceness and not-niceness are pretty resilient qualities. I can’t ever remember encountering the nice-to-not-nice metamorphosis, ever, except maybe in the case of stroke.
**

So it’s just the reality of the dating game post sexual revolution. It’s a numbers game like I said to Calilobo, and to play you have to be very adept, you have to really become a jerk.

**So, what makes you think you won’t get a female jerk for your trouble?

Also, maybe it’s the numbers and assertiveness that are doing the work, not the attempt at a bad boy pose?

**

Just like Xantippe said in that psychology today article, ask out more women and you’ll have better results. This is another way of saying “Estevao’s Official Statement™ is an amazing description of the dating scene!”

Thanks for reading and God Bless.

 

[Xantippe]

There is one issue at the core of this, and it is that you and the rest of these other “chumps” mistake ‘socially proficient’ for ‘bad boy’.

The problem is that it is very difficult to fake being a bad boy, and impossible to fake social proficiency.

That’s right–appearing to be socially proficient is the same as being socially proficient.

And yes, “bad boy” barely has any overlap with “socially proficient,” although I see how one could make that mistake if one were neither a “bad boy” nor socially proficient.

 

[Xantippe]

Estevao, I don’t know where to begin…

I guess anyone reading this can decide for themselves. They can take your advice and no doubt earn the same results you do.

Or they can take the advice of the many happily married people here on CAF, who never took on the role of the jerk/jerkette.

To put it another way, “the proof of the pudding is in the eating”. Your model doesn’t even work for you, so why would anyone else give credence to it?

I think I did the graphic backwards.

When I was a college student, I dated a much older guy (as in 16 years older) my senior year (I was 19 at the time). He was my first serious boyfriend and he was constantly asking me to marry him–probably within a month of meeting me. I was a really big jerk to him, because I wasn’t serious about him, I had no intention of being serious with him, I was immature, and it was FUN. That ended badly for reasons I won’t go into, but it was a trainwreck from the get-go.

Fast forward two years during which I didn’t date at all. Having had well over 2 years to think over what went wrong with the old boyfriend, I met my future husband (he’s about 2.5 years older than me). I didn’t play any mind games with him and I was very upfront about everything and I was also really nice to him!!! And he was really nice to me!!! And we got married well within a year of meeting.

So, as you can see, I went from being a jerk (or a jerkette in Estevao’s lingo) to being a reasonably nice person, just by virtue of thinking about past mistakes, getting older, and (I should note) because I’d spent the previous two years as a Peace Corps volunteer, working overseas and doing my best for people less fortunate than myself.

 

[Xantippe]

A lot of people get less self-centered and easier to be around as they mature through their 20s.

There was a guy I went to high school with who was an 11 on the creepometer. He lied and lied and was incredibly self-pitying (although it sounded like his home life was genuinely terrible). If school shootings had been a thing back then, he would have been our school shooter. Well, my sister bumped into him a few years back (when he would have been maybe 30-something?) and he’s actually a decent, normal human being.

I’ve seen that happen more than once. A lot of people get better and better as they get older. (Although the opposite also happens.)

 

[underacloud]

I think I did the graphic backwards.

Yeah, me too.

As I said above, I think dating made me want to be nicer. I learned from mistakes I made along the way. I never tried to be someone I am not, but I did try to make sure I was an increasingly better version of the real me. And in doing so, I think I became increasingly confident that I was someone a woman would want to meet.

Confidence isn’t about a macho bravado that will get women to notice you. Confidence comes from believing that a woman might come to like you if she gave you a chance. It’s about the quality of your character, not the quality of your “game”.

 

[Xantippe]

Yeah, me too.

As I said above, I think dating made me want to be nicer. I learned from mistakes I made along the way. I never tried to be someone I am not, but I did try to make sure I was an increasingly better version of the real me. And in doing so, I think I became increasingly confident that I was someone a woman would want to meet.

Confidence isn’t about a macho bravado that will get women to notice you. Confidence comes from believing that a woman might come to like you if she gave you a chance. It’s about the quality of your character, not the quality of your “game”.

Awww. That’s really sweet.

 

[CaliLobo]

Xantippe:

To do Calilobo justice, he’s done at least some of those things and is feeling very antsy about being a 30-something without having had a serious relationship. It’s a fairly classic case of feeling that you’ve been a “nice guy” all these years and it didn’t work, so it’s time for a different strategy. Am I right, Calilobo?

I think it totally is true though that he’ll have to figure out what he wants: lots of casual sex (unlikely if it hasn’t been happening already) or a wife. There’s a fork in the road there and a different strategy for each goal. Example: a nice car might genuinely impress a casual acquaintance, while a serious romantic prospect might well count it as a negative if she suspected that it was beyond your means.

I think Calilobo has been attempting both strategies because he’s actually interested in both, but it’s not really something you can try simultaneously with the same people. There’s a lot of deception and play-acting in the standard manosphere advice and that stuff is going to collapse like a cheap tent in the course of an actual relationship. We can’t lie and play-act our way into a solid long-term relationship of any kind.

I read CL as being less angry and more just desperate and willing to try ANYTHING.

I just wish I wasn’t so immersed in my ethnic bubble and the Protestant bubble (and its intersection, the ethnic Protestant bubble) in undergrad. That should’ve been a time when I came out of my shell more, met diverse people, and tried diverse things.

Like I’ve posted in other threads, sticking to Protestant churches for so long has made me a sheltered, awkward person. It has given me very skewed ideas about what it takes to attract and date women, and more tragically, the Protestant church is ill-equipped to do much about it. New theories of the day come, don’t work for people, and are then forgotten. Like “courting,” and I Kissed Dating Goodbye. (I think Xantippe agrees on this one.)

Please do not underestimate the anxiety of being single at age 34. The fear of dying alone, the pain of rejection, the pressure from family, and the desire to have children. All of these are coalescing right now and there are times I panic in my sleep. It has led me to leave a perfectly stable job and relocate, without another one lined up. (I am happy to report that I’ve found another, though!) When I experience scarcity in dating opportunities, and a pattern of rejection, I cannot help but wonder whether my humanity, and the cards I have been dealt, suffice in attracting any woman. I cannot help but believe that the door has closed for me, and that only God will decide when to open it again. I am still upset about what happened a year ago.

Some on CAF have mentioned that I need to be more sure about what I believe. And underacloud and Xantippe have mentioned that I need to decide whether I want sex or a life partner, and that I cannot have both. Because I am running short on time, I am accepting this reality that I cannot have both. (Thanks Xantippe for the backhanded insult that if I’m not having a lot of sex now, I probably never will.)

In sum, neither the Protestant nor agnostic community has given me any affirmation. I’ve concluded that neither has been a net positive for me, not even spiritually, not even by picking up my cross in those circles. The ironic turn of events is that… (drumroll)… I am re-exploring Catholicism.

These days I’m happy with only a few friends. Although I’ll be disappointed by cafeteria Catholics and the moribund sense of community in a parish, and I’ll miss the superior sense of community in Evangelicalism, I gotta remind myself that I’ve lost so many Protestant friends (even betrayed by a few) over the years, and have only dated one Protestant woman. Maybe God withheld Protestant dating because my future wife is Catholic. But I know not to cloud my judgment with such silly, wishful thoughts at this time.

Before you laugh and call me incongruent, please remember that I am going through an in-between phase and a Christian-agnostic complex right now, and it will reflect in my posts. All I can do is pray that if I am to be Catholic, that God will let it be logistically, intellectually, and mentally possible for me.

 

[CaliLobo]

On a lighter note…

sw85:

The best advice is not to be “nice” or “mean” or “bad”, or whatever, to women. The best advice is to be whatever it is you actually are to women, and to be it boldly and without apology – and not to approach them like a beggar unworthy to stand in their presence. Understand that not all of them will like it/you, and that’s too bad, but not everyone in the world wants to buy what you’re selling, and you’re not entitled to have that.

Bad boys get girls because they are confident, and because so few non-“bad boys” are. If you do not love yourself, why should any woman love you?

How much “confidence” are women really wanting? Honestly, I feel like the world is confusing my humility for diffidence.

sw85:

So what is that thing women get from bad boys they don’t get from “nice” guys?

Hint: bad boys don’t say things like “I want you to get to know the real me.”

I’m not good at this, just tell me.

runwaymodel:

I don’t know what type of women you’re dating but perhaps they’re unstable.
None of the ladies I know ever contradict themselves like that. Maybe when they’re teenagers, but then they’re still girls and not women. I think men say that to justify why women don’t like ‘them’–they always go for the jerks/bad boys, etc.

Type of women I’m dating? LA women. I noticed you’re in LA as well. What’s your take on LA women? I notice many men and women in LA are unstable due to the cost of living and the nature of their careers. “Too much going on in life at the moment. I’m not in a place where I should be dating right now.”

underacloud:

Great, I’m a man. And I’ve offer you plenty of good (IMHO) advice. It just happens to resemble much of the advice all the women here on CAF are offering too. Maybe you should reconsider your us-vs-them mentality on this.

But it does make logical sense that straight men should get dating advice from straight men, because they are the ones that have life experience in trying to date the women, right? It would be like a woman trying to get advice about menstruation and breastfeeding from a male health professional, instead of another woman. No matter how brilliant, it doesn’t have the same power that comes from perspective.

 

[on_the_hill]

Can someone define “bad boy?”

I always picture Charlie Sheen. Is this the type of guy we’re talking about?

If I were a girl, sure, Charlie Sheen would’ve seemed like a fun date. Prior to his “Winning!” phase.

 

[Xantippe]

I just wish I wasn’t so immersed in my ethnic bubble and the Protestant bubble (and its intersection, the ethnic Protestant bubble) in undergrad. That should’ve been a time when I came out of my shell more, met diverse people, and tried diverse things.

**Bummer. That’s one small bubble. It’s too bad you didn’t do InterVarsity or something like that. When I did it back in Southern California in the 90s, there were a lot of Asian girls in the group.

I had a mostly great undergraduate experience, and it is very formative, but it isn’t everything. A lot of people who have to work too much or who have to live with parents throughout school and commute have a college experience that’s like Highschool II. **

Like I’ve posted in other threads, sticking to Protestant churches for so long has made me a sheltered, awkward person. It has given me very skewed ideas about what it takes to attract and date women, and more tragically, the Protestant church is ill-equipped to do much about it. New theories of the day come, don’t work for people, and are then forgotten. Like “courting,” and I Kissed Dating Goodbye. (I think Xantippe agrees on this one.)

**Yeah. I wish dating were being talked about more explicitly so that the He Man Woman Hater’s Club wasn’t the only group appearing to offer effective advice. (Unfortunately, “be yourself” is of limited value to a sizable minority of the population that needs more specific advice like, “Stop picking your nose in public and take a shower once in a while. Mmmkay?”) **

Please do not underestimate the anxiety of being single at age 34. The fear of dying alone, the pain of rejection, the pressure from family, and the desire to have children. All of these are coalescing right now and there are times I panic in my sleep. It has led me to leave a perfectly stable job and relocate, without another one lined up. (I am happy to report that I’ve found another, though!)

Great!

**Are you seeing a therapist yet? You might need some techniques so that every time you meet a woman you like, you aren’t projecting your real feelings of, “Oh my gosh–this is the last woman on earth! Must mate!!!”

Also, google “oneitis.”
**

When I experience scarcity in dating opportunities, and a pattern of rejection, I cannot help but wonder whether my humanity, and the cards I have been dealt, suffice in attracting any woman. I cannot help but believe that the door has closed for me, and that only God will decide when to open it again. I am still upset about what happened a year ago.

Some on CAF have mentioned that I need to be more sure about what I believe. And underacloud and Xantippe have mentioned that I need to decide whether I want sex or a life partner, and that I cannot have both.

**Let’s say “casual sex with lots of people” versus a real relationship. And given that casual sex isn’t working out for you, either, it probably makes sense to aim for a real relationship. Putting it very baldly and oversimplifying wildly, it’s the difference between being a hunter gatherer and being a suburbanite with a well-stocked kitchen and pantry, an SUV and a huge 24/7 grocery store 5 minutes away.

That was a pretty horrible analogy, but you know what I mean–life is easier when you don’t have to go on a risky hunt for what you need every time you need it. **

Because I am running short on time, I am accepting this reality that I cannot have both. (Thanks Xantippe for the backhanded insult that if I’m not having a lot of sex now, I probably never will.)

Lots of casual sex, not lots of sex.

In sum, neither the Protestant nor agnostic community has given me any affirmation. I’ve concluded that neither has been a net positive for me, not even spiritually, not even by picking up my cross in those circles. The ironic turn of events is that… (drumroll)… I am re-exploring Catholicism.

Yay!!!

These days I’m happy with only a few friends. Although I’ll be disappointed by cafeteria Catholics and the moribund sense of community in a parish, and I’ll miss the superior sense of community in Evangelicalism, I gotta remind myself that I’ve lost so many Protestant friends (even betrayed by a few) over the years, and have only dated one Protestant woman. Maybe God withheld Protestant dating because my future wife is Catholic. But I know not to cloud my judgment with such silly, wishful thoughts at this time.

As we’ve discussed, there can be a sort of “official church friendship” that is a millimeter deep.

Before you laugh and call me incongruent, please remember that I am going through an in-between phase and a Christian-agnostic complex right now, and it will reflect in my posts. All I can do is pray that if I am to be Catholic, that God will let it be logistically, intellectually, and mentally possible for me.

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

Can someone define “bad boy?”

I always picture Charlie Sheen. Is this the type of guy we’re talking about?

If I were a girl, sure, Charlie Sheen would’ve seemed like a fun date. Prior to his “Winning!” phase.

I imagine Tom Cruise in Top Gun.

I think what a lot of the guys are missing is that (at least where adult women are involved) the successful bad boy 1) has the bad boy attitude and 2) is actually really good at something.

So it’s not “bad boy” period, it’s bad boy pilot, bad boy chemist, bad boy metaphysician, bad boy guitarist, etc.

 

[Xantippe]

On a lighter note…

How much “confidence” are women really wanting? Honestly, I feel like the world is confusing my humility for diffidence.

Enough to demonstrate that in case of adversity, you won’t curl up in a ball and leave her alone to manage everything by herself.

Type of women I’m dating? LA women. I noticed you’re in LA as well. What’s your take on LA women? I notice many men and women in LA are unstable due to the cost of living and the nature of their careers. “Too much going on in life at the moment. I’m not in a place where I should be dating right now.”

**You’re not over the hill in LA, though, which is important.

In that sort of major city, women in your reasonable dating age range are just starting to think of settling down and my feeling is that they are just as eager as you to seal the deal quickly in order to allow ample opportunities to try for a baby. **

But it does make logical sense that straight men should get dating advice from straight men, because they are the ones that have life experience in trying to date the women, right? It would be like a woman trying to get advice about menstruation and breastfeeding from a male health professional, instead of another woman. No matter how brilliant, it doesn’t have the same power that comes from perspective.

It probably doesn’t make sense to lock women out, though, which is what those guys often advise.

 

[Xantippe]

Not to monopolize the thread, but I actually know a bad boy metaphysician. He’s married 20+ years, Catholic, has four kids, is really good at what he does, but he’s definitely a bad boy (although I think that’s kind of a stupid term)–lots of confidence, lots of energy, not risk averse, lots of passionate engagement with whatever he happens to be doing, etc.