Why Catholics Should Vote for Trump article

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buffalo said:
Do you support equal opportunity or equal outcomes?
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Again, such a narrow spotlight missed so many issues. I talk about a mismatch in bargaining power, and you suspect a call for equality of outcome.

Do you recognise we have a problem across many countries of the working poor. Low incomes hurt the better off too as they depress demand.
 
Rau said:
Buff, have some compassion for the agony many voters must experience in trying to choose a President this time.
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I have been there. I was an officeholder in the Dem party, as was my wife. I knew congressmen and senators on a first name basis. We attended conventions and inaugurations. I held campaign events. At a point, I realized I could not be a faithful Catholic and a dedicated Democrat at the same time because of the latter’s ever-increasing dedication to abortion.

The choices are not ideal. But I don’t care about Trump’s manner or whatever secret motivations he might have in his heart. I care about his actions. And those are not hard to choose.
 
Rau said:
Again, such a narrow spotlight missed so many issues. I talk about a mismatch in bargaining power, and you suspect a call for equality of outcome.

Do you recognise we have a problem across many countries of the working poor. Low incomes hurt the better off too as they depress demand.
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What if we were still on the gold standard? America traded away middle class jobs to China to try and keep inflation low.
 
Rau said:
I see. So bad luck? But your leadership have done a good job?
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We place way too much on our leadership to affect a virus. I do fault Trump for relying n a too narrow set of medical advisors and listening to the threat model that said 2.2M will die. I think we overreacted damaging our people and economy.
 
buffalo said:
What if we were still on the gold standard? America traded away middle class jobs to China to try and keep inflation low.
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America (and much of the world) pursued increased profit share! Globalization has had a massive impact. Massive change in our economic system is needed, and is coming.
 
I think the U.S. is ranked 11th by Johns Hopkins in deaths/million from Covid. But does anybody really believe what Russia, China, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela and many others report? I certainly don’t.

And are diagnostics exactly the same in the U.S. as in, e.g., Germany? I doubt it, since dying of any cause is counted as a Covid death if the patient tests positive for Covid. While I’m inclined to believe that the most vulnerable are those with serious underlying conditions, it’s possibly we have it backwards. Possibly a lot more people have Covid than we know, and the numbers are inflated because those who die from other deadly conditions are counted as Covid deaths.
 
buffalo said:
We place way too much on our leadership to affect a virus. I do fault Trump for relying n a too narrow set of medical advisors
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I see. The medical advisors were not good…
buffalo said:
listening to the threat model that said 2.2M will die.
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Hadn’t heard that number. I assume that was a forecast on a “business as usual” basis?
buffalo said:
I think we overreacted damaging our people and economy.
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185,000 dead, but you feel US overreacted? To do less would push the number up, wouldn’t it?
 
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Rau said:
185,000 dead, but you feel US overreacted? To do less would push the number up, wouldn’t it?
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America was sold that we should slow the spread so we would not overload the healthcare system. All it really did was delay and cause economic pain.
 
Rau said:
The list I’ve seen ranks the US as having the 11th highest deaths per head of population.
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I think we’re saying the same thing, aren’t we?

But I also have zero belief in the numbers reported by most countries. I recall, for example, reading what seemed a credible estimate that about 1/3 of the population of Iran has Covid, or did. If that’s so, then its reporting is grotesquely wrong and so is its death rate.

And am I to believe China, Russia, or for that matter any country most of which has no doctors at all?
 
buffalo said:
America was sold that we should slow the spread so we would not overload the healthcare system.
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I think most of the world accepts that slowing the spread is highly recommended. Trouble is, US did not do a great job of slowing the spread.
buffalo said:
All it really did was delay and cause economic pain.
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One could do less than the US - say the Swedish approach. They have had a higher death rate.

The trade-off with the economy is real. It is very challenging.
 
Rau said:
I think most of the world accepts that slowing the spread is highly recommended. Trouble is, US did not do a great job of slowing the spread.
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When the Javits Center and the hospital ship remained empty during the NY spike? Seems to me the U.S. did a pretty good job of blunting spikes. But doing that is useful only to the extent it prevents overutilization of facilities and supplies. It does seem some of the early recommendations and beliefs were erroneous and caused wasted effort. Apparently the massive increase in the number of ventilators was not needed, for instance. But then, we came to a realization that overuse of ventilators might be killing people too. Covid is a tough disease to figure out, and I don’t think we have done it yet.

Personally, I think it will become endemic.
 
Ridgerunner said:
And am I to believe China, Russia, or for that matter any country most of which has no doctors at all?
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Well, there are many countries in the world. And all but 11 report Lower deaths (per head) than the US. You could conclude they all fabricate numbers, or can’t count I suppose. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Ridgerunner said:
Seems to me the U.S. did a pretty good job of blunting spikes. But doing that is useful only to the extent it prevents overutilization of facilities and supplies.
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Only for that reason? What about saving lives too?
Ridgerunner said:
Covid is a tough disease to figure out, and I don’t think we have done it yet.

Personally, I think it will become endemic.
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This could well be right. Let’s hope the massive effort in seeking a vaccine bears fruit.
 
Rau said:
Well, there are many countries in the world. And all but 11 report Lower deaths than the US. You could conclude they all fabricate numbers, or can’t count I suppose. 🤷‍♂️
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So you believe the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin? Might want to reconsider that. And do you really think numbers are definitive coming from countries where there are essentially no doctors in the countryside at all?
 
Rau said:
Only for that reason? What about saving lives too?
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I don’t see how slowing down the spread saves a single life. I do think putting known positive cases into nursing homes is a horrific mistake, and one that, incredibly, seems to have been repeated in more than just NY.
Rau said:
This could well be right. Let’s hope the massive effort in seeking a vaccine bears fruit.
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One hopes it does. I hope Fauci is wrong. He seems to think any vaccine is only going to be of temporary value; a season or less. I truly do hope he’s wrong.
 
Ridgerunner said:
So you believe the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin? Might want to reconsider that.
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Are you manufacturing words to put in my mouth? I referenced the great bulk of the countries of the world. I didn’t mention Russia or China.
 
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