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buffalo
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If one does not honestly engage we will have the government they want and not of the people, by the people.
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Spike2001
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"The federal government needs to stay out of health care. This is state issue.
Jesus wouldn’t think Healthcare should exist, he would support health care for all. (Whoever is kind to the needy honors God. Proverbs 14:31).
"What should the income tax rate on income for the wealthy be to be fair?
"The death penalty is a legitimate defense and is Catholic teaching.
Pope Francis made it very clear that both statements above are sinful.
Jesus wouldn’t think Healthcare should exist, he would support health care for all. (Whoever is kind to the needy honors God. Proverbs 14:31).
"What should the income tax rate on income for the wealthy be to be fair?
"The death penalty is a legitimate defense and is Catholic teaching.
Pope Francis made it very clear that both statements above are sinful.
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buffalo
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As Catholics it is second nature. Not sure about the Presbyterians.The issue is not what flavour of Chriatian he claims to be.
Acknowledging onea sins to God and asking His forgiveness is Christianity 101. Extremely biblical and apostolic,.
I think they are taught their confession is in the creed. Maybe someone can help here.
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buffalo
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We need to understand this is context - let’s start with the Catechism and then what the current Popes have been moving to."The death penalty is a legitimate defense and is Catholic teaching.
Pope Francis made it very clear that both statements above are sinful. If you’re against abortion, I honestly don’t know how you could support the death penalty. Does God approve vengeance?
Legitimate defense
[2263] The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65
*[2264] Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66
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buffalo
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[2265] Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.
[2266] The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67
[2267] Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68
[2266] The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67
[2267] Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68
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Spike2001
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What if the person being sentenced to death was innocent?
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buffalo
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Indeed. We also recognize repentance is desirable and open until the last minute. The current Pope’s teachings are reflecting this as well as countries with economic means can incarcerate and effectively keep these people out of the public and lessen the threat.What if the person being sentenced to death was innocent?
You will see legitimate defense is rooted in love of self and our protection.
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buffalo
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Do you have a number?" What should the income tax rate on income for the wealthy be to be fair?
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buffalo
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We move to Catholic teaching on socialism and communism.
[2422] The Church’s social teaching comprises a body of doctrine, which is articulated as the Church interprets events in the course of history, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, in the light of the whole of what has been revealed by Jesus Christ.202 This teaching can be more easily accepted by men of good will, the more the faithful let themselves be guided by it.
2423 The Church’s social teaching proposes principles for reflection; it provides criteria for judgment; it gives guidelines for action:
Any system in which social relationships are determined entirely by economic factors is contrary to the nature of the human person and his acts.203
[2424] A theory that makes profit the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity is morally unacceptable. The disordered desire for money cannot but produce perverse effects. It is one of the causes of the many conflicts which disturb the social order.204
A system that “subordinates the basic rights of individuals and of groups to the collective organization of production” is contrary to human dignity.205 Every practice that reduces persons to nothing more than a means of profit enslaves man, leads to idolizing money, and contributes to the spread of atheism. "You cannot serve God and mammon."206
[2425] **The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with “communism” or “socialism.” She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.**207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."208 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
[2422] The Church’s social teaching comprises a body of doctrine, which is articulated as the Church interprets events in the course of history, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, in the light of the whole of what has been revealed by Jesus Christ.202 This teaching can be more easily accepted by men of good will, the more the faithful let themselves be guided by it.
2423 The Church’s social teaching proposes principles for reflection; it provides criteria for judgment; it gives guidelines for action:
Any system in which social relationships are determined entirely by economic factors is contrary to the nature of the human person and his acts.203
[2424] A theory that makes profit the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity is morally unacceptable. The disordered desire for money cannot but produce perverse effects. It is one of the causes of the many conflicts which disturb the social order.204
A system that “subordinates the basic rights of individuals and of groups to the collective organization of production” is contrary to human dignity.205 Every practice that reduces persons to nothing more than a means of profit enslaves man, leads to idolizing money, and contributes to the spread of atheism. "You cannot serve God and mammon."206
[2425] **The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with “communism” or “socialism.” She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.**207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."208 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
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farronwolf
New member
Government can’t have religion. People can have religion not but a concept and set of laws can not have religion. Gov has no soul, no brain, so it can’t have religion. Only people.Uh no. The constitution says no such thing. The establishment clause is like a one way valve in that the feds cannot institute a national religion. In other words it cannot impose a religion on its people, but the people can propose one to the government and has right along.
Nor can the gov. prefer religion of one kind over another or over no religion at all.
farronwolf
New member
Whatever tax rates are required for the government to operate within the tax revenue generated. Below that, the rates are too low.Do you have a number?
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buffalo
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IV. ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE
[2426] The development of economic activity and growth in production are meant to provide for the needs of human beings. Economic life is not meant solely to multiply goods produced and increase profit or power; it is ordered first of all to the service of persons, of the whole man, and of the entire human community. Economic activity, conducted according to its own proper methods, is to be exercised within the limits of the moral order, in keeping with social justice so as to correspond to God’s plan for man.209
[2427] Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.210 Hence work is a duty: "If any one will not work, let him not eat."211 Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work212 in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.213 Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.
[2428] In work, the person exercises and fulfills in part the potential inscribed in his nature. The primordial value of labor stems from man himself, its author and its beneficiary. Work is for man, not man for work.214
[2426] The development of economic activity and growth in production are meant to provide for the needs of human beings. Economic life is not meant solely to multiply goods produced and increase profit or power; it is ordered first of all to the service of persons, of the whole man, and of the entire human community. Economic activity, conducted according to its own proper methods, is to be exercised within the limits of the moral order, in keeping with social justice so as to correspond to God’s plan for man.209
[2427] Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.210 Hence work is a duty: "If any one will not work, let him not eat."211 Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work212 in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.213 Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.
[2428] In work, the person exercises and fulfills in part the potential inscribed in his nature. The primordial value of labor stems from man himself, its author and its beneficiary. Work is for man, not man for work.214
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buffalo
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Every state has God in its preamble or constitution. The 10 commandments are in our public buildings. We swear in and give oaths on the Holy Bible. Over and over Presidents have invoked prayer. Congress cannot meet on the Lord’s Day. Christianity is well embedded in our government.Government can’t have religion. People can have religion not but a concept and set of laws can not have religion. Gov has no soul, no brain, so it can’t have religion. Only people.
Nor can the gov. prefer religion of one kind over another or over no religion at all.
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buffalo
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C’mon - what is a tax rate you would advocate on the wealthy.Whatever tax rates are required for the government to operate within the tax revenue generated. Below that, the rates are too low.
farronwolf
New member
No one is required to swear any oath on the Bible.
Yes God is sited, but which God is not specified.
Yes God is sited, but which God is not specified.
farronwolf
New member
Read my answer. It isn’t that complicated.C’mon - what is a tax rate you would advocate on the wealthy.
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buffalo
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I didn’t claim it was a requirement.No one is required to swear any oath on the Bible.
Yes God is sited, but which God is not specified.
Best guess as to which God they were referring to?
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buffalo
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I would like a number, otherwise it is meaningless. Your view is it is not enough, but you cannot tell me what it should be.Read my answer. It isn’t that complicated.
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buffalo
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The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God John Adams
The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Congress 1854
The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Congress 1854
farronwolf
New member
I told you exactly what is should be, but you failed to comprehend my answer.I would like a number, otherwise it is meaningless. Your view is it is not enough, but you cannot tell me what it should be.
If the federal gov budgets for spending X, then X amount of revenue needs to be generated. The last time we had a balanced budget, under Clinton, the tax rates were appropriate for the amount of spending with some extra going towards paying down some of the debt.Whatever tax rates are required for the government to operate within the tax revenue generated. Below that, the rates are too low.
Before and after that time period, the rates were too low based on approved spending. It really is quite simple.
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