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whatevergirl
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But how do we know Moses would/could/should know this??
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KarenNC
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If one is a Christian. Not if one is a Jew.
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NotWorthy
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There’s at least two levels of Scripture going on here (Remember the “Shrek Effect” - Scriptures are like onions, they have layers):But how do we know Moses would/could/should know this??
- Moses was told to do it one way, and he did it another. Trusting his own experience (strike the rock and voila! Water!) over God’s command.
- We, as Christians, should see the lesson that God, through Moses and then St. Paul, are conveying to us.
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NotWorthy
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If one is a Jew, one should read the Scriptures in light of the pending Messiah, I would guess.
But you make a good point. Thank you!
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Gill79
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Jerry-Jet
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I thought the reason that Moses didn’t get to enter the promised land was because he struck the rock with Anger!
God provided for the Isrtaelites need anyway because that is what God had intended to do and He carried out His will and provided the water.
Moses however had dishonored God by mixing his anger in with the pure love of God that would provide the water!
Try to make God look bad beacause of your anger and see what happens to you!
God provided for the Isrtaelites need anyway because that is what God had intended to do and He carried out His will and provided the water.
Moses however had dishonored God by mixing his anger in with the pure love of God that would provide the water!
Try to make God look bad beacause of your anger and see what happens to you!
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whatevergirl
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that’s an interesting thought!
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gradstud35
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Perhaps Paul’s second letter to the Hebrews explains it, this is from Sundays (8-11) scripture:
*All these died in faith. They did not receive what had been promised but saw it and greeted it from afar and acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth, for those who speak thus show that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of the land from which they had come,
they would have had opportunity to return. **But now they desire a better homeland, a heavenly one. **
The reading is referring to Abraham. But if you read the entire Letter to the Hebrews, Paul references Moses as well. The letter concludes
"Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised.
God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect. "*
*All these died in faith. They did not receive what had been promised but saw it and greeted it from afar and acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth, for those who speak thus show that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of the land from which they had come,
they would have had opportunity to return. **But now they desire a better homeland, a heavenly one. **
The reading is referring to Abraham. But if you read the entire Letter to the Hebrews, Paul references Moses as well. The letter concludes
"Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised.
God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect. "*
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whatevergirl
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Also–another interesting perspective. I’m wondering what the Pope’s take on it is??
I don’t think anyone answered what we can liken this to in today’s world?
I don’t think anyone answered what we can liken this to in today’s world?
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LilyM
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Gottle_of_Geer
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It surprises me I guess…because Moses is human, and seems to have been a faithful follower? I understand the meaning behind this, but it seems harsh.
No, it’s not harsh - Moses is punished like this because he had received far greater graces than others, because his mission was far more demanding than theirs; & where the responsibility is great, so are the graces.
He was a prophet, priest, law-giver, ruler, confessor (he came very close to being stoned by his own people); he suffered opposition from his own fellow-Levites; & also from Aaron & Miriam who were his brother & sister; he worked signs & wonders against Pharaoh, yet had to endure the repeated disobedience of Israel (such as their idolatry while he was receiving the Law on Sinai); & all this, for forty years. AFAICS, he is comparable only to Abraham (if even Abraham is his equal). Abraham had the promise of being the father of a great nation - Moses was offered the same thing, because God threatened to wipe out Israel because of their idolatry, & offered to make a great nation come from Moses instead. But Moses preferred their well-being to his own honour - how many Christians are that generous, that full of love for others, that self-sacrificing ? Yet Moses was. Moses’ mission to lead Israel was a continual martyrdom. I think it’s disgraceful that he is not in the calendar of the Roman Rite - other Rites are wiser. Any lesser man would have been broken by what he had to endure. In a way, he is more astonishing even than St. Paul, because St.Paul at least had the consolation of faith in Christ Who had come - Moses did not.And where the graces are great, the sin of the recipient is correspondingly serious, & is punished as it would not be in those less privileged. The greater the light given, the greater the guilt of sinning against it.
Which is why those in authority are in great danger - especially those who hold authority in the Church. They need prayers, not praise.
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marymol
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Good to see the meditataive (name removed by moderator)uts of many on some of these ‘difficult’ passages - may be in Divine providence , ‘difficult’ for the purpose of making it something that sort of grabs at our hearts and let us ask and ponder …
We are approaching the Feast of Assumption of our bl. Mother , who was taken to heaven body and soul and a hope for each of us too , to be in that promised land one day… .
A probable time of mourning , may be even some neglect of priestly duties , for these two leaders … Moses , we have read of his passion for his people ( he had killed the Egyptian who struck one of his people.)
Is the drought that brought on the ’ wickedness ’ of complaining somehow related to all these…
Even so, was it also going to be an occasion which God was going to marvelously use, to strengthen their faith and dry up any tears , by letting water flow out of The Rock , by mere 'ordering ’ .
.He does say ’ I will be standing in front of the rock.’
If only the whole Israelite community , at that point had fallen prostrate , in front of the rock - The Lord, , asking for mercy …( there has been a t.v.documentary while ago that show the discovery of the rock - in Saudi Arabia ; shaped as a perfect circle , like The Eucharist , with a large , dry bed of a stream from its base ! )
Is it because of sensing any disbelief or even bitterness in Moses that The Lord then ask him to strike the rock ( may be even mercifully to remind him of the use of the staff to part the Red Sea …) wouldn’t think there is any real discrepancy in the two seemingly diffrent narrations …
Yet, llike many of us too ,who often forget the presence of The Lord, in the passions of our fallen nature, there are two strikes …
The Woman , whose intercession helped to avert what could have been some bitterness at a wedding …may her prayers strengthen us all ,to carry out His will …
We are approaching the Feast of Assumption of our bl. Mother , who was taken to heaven body and soul and a hope for each of us too , to be in that promised land one day… .
Code:
Miriam - sister of Moses and Aaron, is also mentioned in the passages we are discusssing ..of her death and burial , in the desert....and may be it would help to magnify the situation , to help us to see things more clearly ..Is the drought that brought on the ’ wickedness ’ of complaining somehow related to all these…
Even so, was it also going to be an occasion which God was going to marvelously use, to strengthen their faith and dry up any tears , by letting water flow out of The Rock , by mere 'ordering ’ .
.He does say ’ I will be standing in front of the rock.’
If only the whole Israelite community , at that point had fallen prostrate , in front of the rock - The Lord, , asking for mercy …( there has been a t.v.documentary while ago that show the discovery of the rock - in Saudi Arabia ; shaped as a perfect circle , like The Eucharist , with a large , dry bed of a stream from its base ! )
Is it because of sensing any disbelief or even bitterness in Moses that The Lord then ask him to strike the rock ( may be even mercifully to remind him of the use of the staff to part the Red Sea …) wouldn’t think there is any real discrepancy in the two seemingly diffrent narrations …
Yet, llike many of us too ,who often forget the presence of The Lord, in the passions of our fallen nature, there are two strikes …
The Woman , whose intercession helped to avert what could have been some bitterness at a wedding …may her prayers strengthen us all ,to carry out His will …
Happy Feast of Assumption !
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whatevergirl
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thank you for this post–very enlightening!
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Valke2
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by striking the rock he gave the appearance that it was his power, and not God’s that was bringing forth the water.
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NotWorthy
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On one level, yes. But wouldn’t just calling forth the water also look like it was his power?
Again, on one level, you may be right. But for Christians, Christ only needed to be Sacrificed once for the Holy Spirit to pour forth. After that, Christians who call on the name of the Lord can receive this life-giving water.
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Ani_Ibi
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Oh no! But don’t you get angry sometimes? With God? I mean we can’t pretend because God reads our hearts. If we repent and confess doesn’t God forgive and forget?
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marymol
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Gottle of Geer;2573548 . Moses’ mission to lead Israel was a continual martyrdom. [/QUOTE said:
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Brendan
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Not quite true. He was eventually permitted to enter it, with Christ at the Transfiguration.
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Brendan
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One additional clarification. Moses WAS eventually permitted to enter into the Promised Land; with Christ at the Transfiguration.
Moses and Elijah were both present at that event.
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Brendan
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"NotWorthy:
No, Jews should also read it in the light of Christ. Just because they don’t read it that way doesn’t that they shouldn’t.
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