Why do Christians reject the testimony of Alien Abduction victims?

[BroIgnatius]

Actually, my friend, I am totally open to the possibility of ETs visiting earth. I just apply science and reason and not faith or bias to the subject. But, the burden of proof on the UFO people, not on me or those who are skeptical of it. That is basic reason.

I participate in the SETI project. My computer processes data from the radio-telescope in Puerto Rico.

I also have 40+ years in psychology and the studies that that may provide explanations for these anecdotal reports.

But, ah well.

 

[IWantGod]

Actually, my friend, I am totally open to the possibility of ETs visiting earth. I just apply science and reason and not faith or bias to the subject.

I participate in the SETI project. My computer processes data from the radio-telescope in Puerto Rico.

I also have 40+ years in psychology and the studies that that may provide explanations for these anecdotal reports.

But, ah well.

All that can be said here is that you personally want scientific evidence for everything accept your faith, am i correct?

I too hold my faith in high regard and i don’t just accept everything that is said by anyone. I just think the UFO phenomena and the people who experience these things deserves a bit more respect, even if you choose not to believe it,.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I’d also be interested in knowing how skeptics like BroIgnatius handle supernatural experiences of those from other religions. Again…im not so much concerned about the validity of Christian beliefs. Im more concerned about how many Christians handle matters that go against (or appear as such) their beliefs such as the example you brought up.

 

[IWantGod]

UK UFO’s Exposed - See What People In UK Are Seeing Right Now UFO Documentary 2017

 

[BroIgnatius]

I’d also be interested in knowing how skeptics like BroIgnatius handle supernatural experiences of those from other religions. Again…im not so much concerned about the validity of Christian beliefs. Im more concerned about how many Christians handle matters that go against (or appear as such) their beliefs such as the example you brought up.

You are not correct. But, this thread is not about issues of faith. Your attempt to bait me into that off topic issue is called the tu quoque logical fallacy. You have performed a number of logical fallacies.

It is also a violation of the forum rules. If you wish to argue that point, then post it in the debate forums.

 

[Gorgias]

Science is good at explaining natural phenomena because that is measurable.
I dare say that you have accepted things or believed things to be true without science.

Aliens are natural phenomena which, if they exist, should be measurable… which should imply that scientific (i.e., empirical) measurement should be the standard by which we judge the truth of their existence, don’t you think?

All that can be said here is that you personally want scientific evidence for everything accept your faith, am i correct?

No… that’s not the correct conclusion. We want scientific evidence for everything that admits of scientific evidence. We want (credible) eyewitness testimony for everything that’s natural (i.e., physical) that doesn’t admit of scientific evidence. And, of course, we use reason in all of these areas, as well as in the discernment of truths of things that aren’t physical (e.g., God, angels, etc).

You see, it’s not what you’re making it out to be, @IWantGod – it’s not a double standard so much as it is the application of the appropriate standard.

 

[spiritualsoldier]

There’s nothing in the Catechism about this and the pope has never spoken ex cathedra regarding this…lol

 

[AgnosticBoy]

You are not correct. But, this thread is not about issues of faith. Your attempt to bait me into that off topic issue is called the tu quoque logical fallacy. You have performed a number of logical fallacies.

It is also a violation of the forum rules. If you wish to argue that point, then post it in the debate forums.

The thread asks WHY do Christians not accept claims of alien abductions. That’s not simply arguing for or against aliens. The reason WHY Christians don’t accept it tends to be because of a double standard, namely, “selective skepticism”.

Also, Christianity is a faith in that it’s a belief system, however it goes beyond believing based on faith when you have EXPERIENCES, like experiences w/ Jesus, visions, miracles, and other supernatural events. Now Gorgias goes into the types of nature of the experience so let me address that, as well.

Aliens are natural phenomena which, if they exist, should be measurable… which should imply that scientific (i.e., empirical) measurement should be the standard by which we judge the truth of their existence, don’t you think?

There are some assumptions in your points…
First, science deals with natural phenomena but that doesn’t mean that they have the ability to deal with all natural phenomena, just like we didn’t have the ability to know about our Universe expanding (a completely natural event) until the Hubble Space telescope. If aliens are technologically advanced and are unwilling to lend themselves to scientific scrutiny, then we may not have the scientific means to evidence them.

Secondly, some supernatural events are measurable/detectable in principle. For instance, Jesus walking on water is a purely physical event. We can observe it, test it, etc. We probably couldn’t explain it through purely natural means but nonetheless the observation is there.

So again, there’s just about as much evidence for alien abductions as there is for more than half of the things that Christians accept. Lets be consistent!

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias goes into the types of nature of the experience so let me address that, as well.

Gorgias:

Aliens are natural phenomena which, if they exist, should be measurable… which should imply that scientific (i.e., empirical) measurement should be the standard by which we judge the truth of their existence, don’t you think?

There are some assumptions in your points…
First, science deals with natural phenomena but that doesn’t mean that they have the ability to deal with all natural phenomena

Fair enough. And, since you agree that ‘aliens’ are natural phenomena – and therefore, are in the realm of empirical, scientific measurement – then we should deal with them as we deal with everything that is in that realm, but is unencountered / unmeasured: we stop making claims about them. Until we have physical evidence of physical phenomena – or mathematical theories about them – we do not make unsupportable claims. That’s where the notion of ‘aliens’ falls right now.

If aliens are technologically advanced and are unwilling to lend themselves to scientific scrutiny, then we may not have the scientific means to evidence them.

And therefore, in the absence of any verifiable evidence, we have to admit that there’s nothing we can say to posit their existence.

Secondly, some supernatural events are measurable/detectable in principle. For instance, Jesus walking on water is a purely physical event. We can observe it, test it, etc. We probably couldn’t explain it through purely natural means but nonetheless the observation is there.

Now we’re getting into another realm: the question of historical events which were not empirically measured. In that case, we have to rely on eyewitness testimony which, although not the kind of evidence a scientist would use, is nevertheless valuable if it’s credible and supported by many eyewitnesses. Testimony about aliens might meet the latter criteria, but it has a real problem with the former.

So again, there’s just about as much evidence for alien abductions as there is for more than half of the things that Christians accept. Lets be consistent!

You were doing OK… but now, you’re right back where you started! The evidence for Christianity is present in the Bible. Do you believe that the Bible is inspired by God? Does that give its testimony greater credibility to you?

The evidence for aliens is not from God. Do you believe that that testimony is to be held as being as credible as Biblical testimony?

 

[Elf01]

You were doing OK… but now, you’re right back where you started! The evidence for Christianity is present in the Bible. Do you believe that the Bible is inspired by God? Does that give its testimony greater credibility to you?

The evidence for aliens is not from God. Do you believe that that testimony is to be held as being as credible as Biblical testimony?

Note: I am a Christian (Catholic) and skeptical about aliens, however I do think that @AgnosticBoy has a point. To someone who does not accept the Bible a priory its claims (at least the way you are arguing) are no more credible than the alien abduction claims.

 

[Gorgias]

I do think that @AgnosticBoy has a point. To someone who does not accept the Bible a priory its claims (at least the way you are arguing) are no more credible than the alien abduction claims.

Agreed. However, @IWantGod represents himself as a Catholic Christian. Therefore, we would expect that he holds the Bible as divinely inspired, and as such, as a source of testimony of far greater credibility than the TV program “Ancient Aliens”…

 

[IWantGod]

Agreed. However, @IWantGod represents himself as a Catholic Christian. Therefore, we would expect that he holds the Bible as divinely inspired

I’m looking at the ufo claim from a strictly epistemological point of view. I have faith that the bible is divinely inspired firstly because the Church says it is. My faith is based on the testimony of the Church. and also because it fulfills a spiritual need. A pragmatic need. It speaks to my heart and leads me to a better understanding of the human condition, at the very least it leads me to an understanding that makes sense to me personally. Ultimately i accept and trust the clam because of what it promises me, not because i have scientific evidence.

That the bible is divinely inspired isn’t supported by science and i don’t think you can prove it with strict logical argument. As far as Jesus performing miracles and rising from the dead what we have is anecdotal evidence and we are called to trust that evidence for the sake of our salvation.

Ufo claims lack the spiritual or emotional benefits of Christian claims, but epistemologically speaking they are both believed because of testimony.

and as such, as a source of testimony of far greater credibility than the TV program “Ancient Aliens”…

The problem i never said that a tv show about ancient aliens is a source of credible evidence. I spoke specifically about the alien abduction phenomena and ufo sightings.

 

[Gorgias]

I’m looking at the ufo claim from a strictly epistemological point of view.

That’s a great starting point!

That the bible is divinely inspired isn’t supported by science and i don’t think you can prove it with strict logical argument.

So, your take on things is that religious statements are based purely on faith, apart from any rational consideration, then? The Church disagrees with you.

But, that gets us on a bit of a tangent. Continuing onward…

Ufo claims lack the spiritual or emotional benefits of Christian claims, but epistemologically speaking they are both believed because of testimony.

Close. The mode of evidence that UFO claims and Christian Scriptural claims utilize is ‘eyewitness testimony’. However, the reason for accepting the claims isn’t testimony, per se – it’s the veracity of the testimony, based on the credibility of the testimony and the witnesses who provide it, that is the basis for acceptance.

So, in one case, you have a highly reliable testimony (due to its inclusion in the Word of God), and in the other case, you have testimony of much credibility.

So, if you want to call “apples and apples”, it’s only based on the fact that the mode of evidence is the same. On the other hand, in terms of the value of the evidence, we’re in “apples and oranges” territory here. Therefore… no “double standard.”

and as such, as a source of testimony of far greater credibility than the TV program “Ancient Aliens”…

The problem i never said that a tv show about ancient aliens is a source of credible evidence. I spoke specifically about the alien abduction phenomena and ufo sightings.
[/quote]

I just used that program as an illustration. Naturally, you can cite all sorts of testimony that’s a whole lot more credible than Giorgio Tsoukalos, but it still doesn’t rise to the level of Scriptural testimony.

 

[IWantGod]

Okay, show us why belief in the resurrection is more credible than 3 people seeing a ufo land and recounting identical experiences.

 

[Gorgias]

Okay, show us why belief in the resurrection is more credible than 3 people seeing a ufo land and recounting identical experiences.

On the simplest level: because it’s recounted as truth in the Bible, which is the Word of God.

Is that insufficient?

 

[IWantGod]

Epistemologically speaking it is insufficient. And no reasonable person would just accept an assertion from a strictly epistemological stand point. You need to explain why the anecdotal evidence for the Resurrection is more credible.

 

[Gorgias]

No its not.

“No it’s not” insufficient? Cool.

And no reasonable person would just accept an assertion from a strictly epistemological stand point.

Umm… so it is or isn’t unreasonable? Now I’m confused…

You need to explain why the anecdotal evidence for the Resurrection is more credible.

Are you asking for an epistemology for Catholic belief? That’s what it sounds like.

 

[IWantGod]

Simply asserting that the bible is divinely inspired does not answer my question. I believe the bible is divinely inspired because of the testimony of the Church. Which means i trust the Church. But that in itself does not explain why i would distrust the testimony of UFO victims in comparison, especially when 3 people are involved recounting the same identical experience. The same kind of naturalistic rationalizations you use against alien abduction are often used against the church in regards to the resurrection. That’s why i say that you are using a double standard.

The only thing that you have made clear is that you trust the claims of Christianity based on anecdotal evidence, but you don’t trust the claims of those who report UFO phenomena regardless of any non-scientific evidence.

 

[Jerusha]

There is nothing wrong with belief in the possibility of extraterrestrial corporeal beings. We don’t have enough evidence. Unless thousands of people see what is distinctly an alien spaceship, we do not have enough evidence. The point is, that they must not be deified. In all likelihood, they are just as flawed as we are. Therefore, the cult of “Ancient Aliens” is pagan.

 

[phil19034]

Why don’t we accept claims of alien abduction?

Here is a testimony. Are these people lying?

The Allagash Abductions - An OpenMinds.tv Documentary

youtube.com/watch?v=10PL0o8ZJHI

Believing or not believing in alien abduction has nothing to do with Christianity.

Yes, there are some Christians who believe that we are the only people in the universe and there are others who do not.

General Christianity and the Catholic Church teaches nothing about aliens.

Most people who do not accept alien abduction stories don’t accept them because they do not find the evidence (scientifically and/or philosophically) convincing. People who DO believe find the evidence to be philosophically convincing (because there is no scientific proof).

The point is pretty simple. If you philosophically believe that there is a way to get around the Light barrier (warp speed, worm holes, etc) then aliens visiting earth are possible. But if you stick only to science, then there is no way to brake the speed of light. So aliens are not possible, if you can’t break the speed of light.

Point is: believe in alien abductions has NOTHING to do with Christianity and everything to do with philosophy (at this point in time).