Why do many Catholics vote for pro-choice candidates/parties?

[esieffe]

Abortions will be performed “no matter what”, and we should keep it safe and legal.

There are certainly times where we are required to choose from bad choices, but this isn’t one of them.
In this case the “high road” seems to be a choice between a safer form of murder as to avoid a potentially unsafe form of it. Neither form is acceptable. “We want women to safely murder their children” doesn’t make it any better.

I may be opposed to abortion, but I cannot/should not force my beliefs on anyone else.

No good either. What if the belief under consideration is to lower the age of consent to 14. A person’s belief should be that this is intrinsically evil. If we all used this argument, especially given the current climate, there is no telling what horrors would come rushing into the culture of death pipeline.

I don’t let the pope or bishops tell me how to vote.

This is part of the role they are to play. That is what they do, they advise Catholics what should be done and not done based in scripture and the deposit of faith.

Poor women need to be able to have an abortion as easily as women who are not poor.

No, no they don’t. No one is entitled to equal access to murder.

Abortion is just one of many issues, and I vote for the candidate/party that is the best overall.

Sure, it is just one of many issues. That doesn’t change the fact that it is murder. The commandments are just one of many. Thou shall not kill is near the top. Couching it with how a candidate stands on trade issues is a distraction. "Im going to bring more jobs to Kansas, in the meantime it’s ok to dismember babies.

Nobody is being forced to have an abortion, the law merely allows it.

Legitimizing a business that kills babies with a store leads to the thinking that it is okay. What will people think when a euthinization clinic opens up next door for with people with ALS, cancer and other illnesses?

I’m never going to have an abortion, so it doesn’t concern me.

I’m never going to have an abortion, so it doesn’t concern me.

“When they came for the communists, I didn’t do anything, I am not a communist.”

None of the candidates are truly “pro-life”.

We don’t know that for sure. People also change. What I thought was ok as a 20 year old is certainly not what I think is ok now. Abortions have dropped now, clinics are closing, the sale of baby parts has been exposed.

In my opinion, it doesn’t matter how many arguments the culture of death offers, or Catholics who vote for the culture of death, even though I might think they will what many perceive as good things, like bringing jobs to their state, or a really nifty social program. We cannot co-operate with such evil.

.02

 

[TheLittleLady]

First time I voted was when Ronald Regan. President Regan was not completely anti-abortion, he made famous what have now become the standard “pro life” exceptions for abortion.

I have never had the opportunity to vote for someone who was 100% pro-life, so, I am stuck deciding on other matters. Maybe someday the ASP will be on the ballot in my state.

 

[esieffe]

Why did you leave out the reason why abortion is legal in the USA?

Women have a right to privacy and the government should not interfere with that right.

I am not saying this is a good reason or a bad reason. But it is the only reason that actually matters in the discussion. Abortion will be legal until this reason is refuted or set aside.

No, no it doesn’t matter. There are man’s laws and then there are spiritual laws. If it is legal somewhere, it doesn’t change the fact that it is a spiritual crime, murder, the murder of babies. It doesn’t hold any water that it is legal anywhere. I know the OP and others is discussing strategy and response, and that is okay, but we are giving the culture of death way too much latitude in formulating this strategy. That is my contribution to the discussion. I am not scolding anyone here btw.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Abortions will be performed “no matter what”, and we should keep it safe and legal.

Just as a thought experiment, let’s imagine a society where 60% of the people engage in human sacrifice of their children. (I hate that mental picture as much as you do.) Some of them think it’s OK, some people go to churches where they teach that it is OK, and it’s going to happen “no matter what”. Do you then say “well, if things have to be this way, let’s make sure that it happens as humanely as possible, let’s set up places where they can go to do this, let’s ensure that the children don’t suffer any more than they absolutely have to”?

And how different is our present, real situation from that scenario?

 

[esieffe]

First time I voted was when Ronald Regan. President Regan was not completely anti-abortion, he made famous what have now become the standard “pro life” exceptions for abortion.

I have never had the opportunity to vote for someone who was 100% pro-life, so, I am stuck deciding on other matters. Maybe someday the ASP will be on the ballot in my state.

You know that is an interesting point. If the “goal” is to wipe out, or come as close as possible to doing so, with an overall strategy of making it illegal completely in the long run, it might give me pause. This is how the anti-gun lobby works. [I am not anti-gun, but I don’t personally like them]

This is how American politics work. I believe if Trump could wipe out abortion world wide, he would. There are things I don’t like about him, but none of them allow for the murder of children or assisted suicide.] Should Trump forward the idea of assisted suicide, my support for him would end. That he has a foul mouth, that is my compromise. He isn’t perfect. The Lord knows I am certainly not.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

You know that is an interesting point. If the “goal” is to wipe out, or come as close as possible to doing so, with an overall strategy of making it illegal completely in the long run, it might give me pause. This is how the anti-gun lobby works. [I am not anti-gun, but I don’t personally like them]

We are sport shooters and we eat, breathe, sleep, and live the Second Amendment in our household. I have a medal of St Gabriel Possenti on the zipper of my range bag.

St Gabriel Possenti, ora pro nobis.

St. Gabriel Possenti – Patron Saint of Gun Owners | Gun Owners of America

 

[esieffe]

… and see here I thought I knew everything! Wow, thanks!

St Gabriel Possenti, pray for us!!

 

[FrancisFan43]

I have never had the opportunity to vote for someone who was 100% pro-life

Funny enough, you actually do have that oppertunity. It’s just for a candidate that it super unpopular with certain peoples in America today.

If that candidate is okay with pro-life leaders in the clergy, than that candidate is good enough for me.

 

[esieffe]

The Church has said that you may vote for someone who supports abortion provided you are not voting for that person because you agree with them about abortion.

Really? This isn’t a challenge on your word at all, but I would very much like to see this for myself, so I can get my arms around the context. Do you know where I might find it? Here is what I found:

Public Policy | Archdiocese of New York

In the vast majority of cases, Catholics can not vote for a pro - abortion candidate in good conscience. Voting in this way would only be permissible “for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil” (Faithful Citizenship 35).

Voting With A Catholic Conscience - Public Policy …​

Public Policy | Archdiocese of New York

 

[JMMJ]

Interesting thread. It is pretty clear, the sources from which many CAF posters get their news.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

There’s a significant amount of people here who don’t like LifeSite News.

 

[twoshoes]

I find it hard to believe God is happy with his creation being destroyed at any stage of developement. You vote for evil when you SUPPORT any official who votes for abortion. You can’t say God, I didn’t know. We don’t disturb turtle nest but we ripe humans apart in the womb.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Funny enough, you actually do have that oppertunity. It’s just for a candidate that it super unpopular with certain peoples in America today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1129954110747422720

Once again, I have only seen candidates who support the Reagan abortion exceptions, including our current president who is not shy to promote those exceptions of rape, incest, health of mother and fetal abnormality. As someone who was an abnormal fetus, I can never support such abortions.

Fr Pavone’s actions are disturbing, I pray for him but would not take his advice.

Father Pavone Faces Diocesan Investigation Over Aborted Baby on Altar| National Catholic Register

 

[FrancisFan43]

Hmm that definitely puts a different light on the subject. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

 

[thistle]

In the vast majority of cases, Catholics can not vote for a pro - abortion candidate in good conscience. Voting in this way would only be permissible “for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil” (Faithful Citizenship 35).

In other words Catholics CAN vote for a pro-choice candidate as long as they do not agree with the pro-choice position and there are other appropriate reasons to vote for the candidate.
When the Church says something is allowed please do not tell anyone they should not be doing something.

 

[esieffe]

read it however you want. Show me the grave moral reasoning in your “exception” that allows one to vote for someone who is complicit with infanticide.

 

[thistle]

read it however you want. Show me the grave moral reasoning in your “exception” that allows one to vote for someone who is complicit with infanticide.

I would have to listen to a candidate to answer that and know what his issues are.
Again, with something the Church allows you should not put yourself above the Church and tell people they should not be doing that.
It is up to every voter to know what the candidate is all about (not one issue) for them to make up their own minds.

 

[Annie]

In other words Catholics CAN vote for a pro-choice candidate as long as they do not agree with the pro-choice position and there are other appropriate reasons to vote for the candidate.

The word then-Cardinal Ratzinger used was proportionate, not appropriate. This is important.

 

[thistle]

The word then-Cardinal Ratzinger used was proportionate, not appropriate. This is important.

Nitpicking words now. You are still pushing your view down our throats.

The Church ALLOWS voting for a pro-choice candidate and it is up to an individual voter to decide, NOT YOU!

 

[Annie]

No, I am not pushing my view down your throat, I am trying to clarify the Church’s view.