Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

[CopticChristian]

Coptic—Are you really unable to understand the differing meanings of the word “act” in the English language?

I’m at a loss as to why you seem unable to comprehend Itwin’s posts.

Abide,

More likely than not it is as incomprabable as your believeing that Shalom place and the false self represent Catechetical teaching.

I am at a loss why you have not procured the Audio Catechism and learned what the Church teaches.

 

[jmcrae]

It makes sense to not label yourself as a Protestant because none of us lived 500 years ago. I prefer the lable of Christian over Protestant myself. I do find it interesting that Catholics are always telling me to come home to the Catholic Church, yet I was never Catholic in the first place. In addition, Scripture tells us that this earth is not our home… our home is heavenly and upward. We are simply aliens of this world according to Peter.

The Catholic Church is also from Heaven - it is not of the earth. Everyone in Heaven is Catholic. The Mass that takes place in the Catholic Church is the union between Heaven and earth.

 

[PRmerger]

I usually type “Protestant” because it’s easier than “non-Catholic Christian”, but if I have been told that a particular person finds it offensive to be called a Protestant, then I desist and call them a non-Catholic Christian.

No biggie to me, except for the wear and tear on the keyboard!

 

[guanophore]

It makes sense to not label yourself as a Protestant because none of us lived 500 years ago. I prefer the lable of Christian over Protestant myself. I do find it interesting that Catholics are always telling me to come home to the Catholic Church, yet I was never Catholic in the first place. In addition, Scripture tells us that this earth is not our home… our home is heavenly and upward. We are simply aliens of this world according to Peter.

Yes this is an interesting phrase. It reflects that Catholics understand that Jesus founded only One Church, and that all who are members of His One Body are members of that One Church. The Fathers of the Church make it clear that the One Church that was founded by Christ is identified by the four marks (One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic). All other ecclesial communites were founded by human beings, most of them coming on the scene 1500 years after the Aposltes.

Educated Catholics know that the spawn of division that occurred at the Reformation and following is a result of breaking away from the CC. All the denominations define themselves by which, and how much, of the Apostolic faith they deny.

There is one thing that all non-Catholic communities hold in common, and that is that the CC does not have it right.

There are other elements of the Apostolic faith that all still claim, though the more splintering occurs, the further the denominations drift from the Apostolic faith.

I agree with you, we sojourn here on earth, but our home is in heaven. The One Church founded by Christ is the Ark in which we sail while we are passing through this world.

 

[ltwin]

To be or not to be that is the question and to become you must do and to believe that you should stop acting like a Christian is consistent with a Protestant pastors cute notion that sold a book that some want to perpetuate because it pleases their incorrect thinking…that generates sympathy when opposed.

Well, you got something right in that paragraph: perpetuate. There are people perpetuating a caricature of what they think the Protestant pastor’s notion is, but besides that, not much else is goin on around here.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Abide,

More likely than not it is as incomprabable as your believeing that Shalom place and the false self represent Catechetical teaching.

I am at a loss why you have not procured the Audio Catechism and learned what the Church teaches.

Coptic—Where did I say the false self concept was from the CCC? It’s a idea used in some types of psychology, including that done by some Catholic psychologists. You think neuro-linguistic programming is useful; I think it’s been largely discredited. I think the false self concept is useful; you think it’s nonsense. So we disagree.

It’s not incomprehensible that I think Shalom Place has some good Catholic teaching: the Dominican Sisters of Peace that sponsor and oversee SP have their Bishop’s approval.

I haven’t procured the audio Catechism because I prefer to read. I can’t listen to tapes on my way to work because my “commute” consists of a two minute walk out to my studio, and I need to concentrate without verbal distractions while I’m working. I have read sizable parts of the CCC online over the last 4 years.

 

[AbideWithMe]

There are people perpetuating a caricature of what they think the Protestant pastor’s notion is, but besides that, not much else is goin on around here.

That about sums it up. What will be the next installment of The Straw Man Chronicles? Stay tuned, folks, for more excellence in miscommunication.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I agree with you, we sojourn here on earth, but our home is in heaven. The One Church founded by Christ is the Ark in which we sail while we are passing through this world.

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, you got something right in that paragraph: perpetuate. There are people perpetuating a caricature of what they think the Protestant pastor’s notion is, but besides that, not much else is goin on around here.

Itwin,

Here is the dilema. Stop acting and just be. This is inconsistent with revealed truth as seen in the Catechism and inconsistent with The Bible. You propose two classes of people. There are Christians and there are those that act like Christians. I see no place in Scripture that supports this view…The entire OT is about obedience and disobedience…

In 2Peter…we see this…

. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. **8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. **10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Peter makes it clear that you need to add virtue to your faith and virtue is habit, as you agreed previously to what I posted from the Catechism…and Peter makes it clear there are those that do and those that do not…not those that act like and those that are fulfilled. He does not support acting like a Christian and being a Christian as two classes of people…

Paul commences the letter to the Romans with the overwhelming message of Obedience of Faith, Faith in action…you must do…

Romans 1

5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

and he ends the letter to conclude that this is what this letter is about, Obedient Faith, Faith in action…doing not being…

Romans 16

25Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
Romans 2

Paul then makes it clear that you should not be passing judgement on those that act and those that do…If you are judging someone with a mask, false self, those that are acting like Christians then you defy the teaching of Paul…

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

and Paul makes it clear you are rewarded by your doing not being…

Paul points out in the next section

Romans 3

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any betterb? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
**“There is no one righteous, not even one; **

He reminds us that there are God’s people and evil people by citing Psalm 14 and 53…this message is repeated twice…

Psalm 14/53

2The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
4Will evildoers never learn—
those who devour my people as men eat bread
and who do not call on the LORD?

The Lord looks down from heaven and sees…

People that are Christians and People acting like Christians…by no means, shall it never be…he sees His people and evil people…

CONTINUED

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, you got something right in that paragraph: perpetuate. There are people perpetuating a caricature of what they think the Protestant pastor’s notion is, but besides that, not much else is goin on around here.

Now we know that His people are not perfect and His people sometimes fail…and Paul makes it clear that you should not judge anyone, he does not even Judge himself…and that you should work out your salvation with fear and trembling…

I hope the lurkers realize that this notion of

Stop Acting like A christian just be one is not consistent with revealed truth, is judgmental, creates two classes of Christians never heard of…there are obedient and disobedient…

There is no mask, false self, chakra, Kundlani and any other nonsense found in Revealed truth found in the Catechism or Scripture…so if you want to be a Christian…

Get Baptized…

Learn your faith
Practice the Sacramental Life
Model Christ, act like Christ so you can be like Christ
Pray…

or get hold of a Bible, some Pastors book and see which class of people you belong to those that act and those that are…your choice…

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic—Where did I say the false self concept was from the CCC? It’s a idea used in some types of psychology, including that done by some Catholic psychologists. You think neuro-linguistic programming is useful; I think it’s been largely discredited. I think the false self concept is useful; you think it’s nonsense. So we disagree.

It’s not incomprehensible that I think Shalom Place has some good Catholic teaching: the Dominican Sisters of Peace that sponsor and oversee SP have their Bishop’s approval.

I haven’t procured the audio Catechism because I prefer to read. I can’t listen to tapes on my way to work because my “commute” consists of a two minute walk out to my studio, and I need to concentrate without verbal distractions while I’m working. I have read sizable parts of the CCC online over the last 4 years.

Abide,

NLP is NLP. What you think is what you think.

Psychobabble is not part of revealed truths.

I suggest you get hold of the USA Catechism for adults as there are relevant stories of those that are trying to act like Christ to become like Christ. Each Chapter has stories of Saints…you will not find that in the online Universal Catechism…

 

[Adamski]

Basic reason why I’m catholic (ex evangelical- non denominational)

1- I believe in god because if there’s a big bang thier has to be a big banger

2- I’m a Christian because it is the most historically accurate along with recognizing the lord, liar lunatic theory put forth my men such as josh McDowell

3- I’m a Catholc Christian because I used josh McDowell’s and lee strobel’s investigative techniques to research what Christians believed and practiced before Constantine since my evangelical pastor said constantine started the catholic church in 325ad. Well all the writings before 325 show that all of the catholic beliefs are referenced in the bible and where in practice before 325a. Along with the fact that the catholic church has a logical answer for every line in the bible

4- so I had to be catholic since Jesus and the apostles taught catholic teachings and I need to follow Jesus since he is God

 

[ltwin]

Itwin,

Here is the dilema. Stop acting and just be.This is inconsistent with revealed truth as seen in the Catechism and inconsistent with The Bible.

It’s only inconsistent to you because you insist on using a definition of “acting” that I’m not using. “Acting” in what we are saying refers to role playing or putting on a show. You, on the other hand, are defining “acting” as “actions.” I’ve repeatedly made this point, and you have repeatedly ignored it preferring to carry out the discussion on your on terms.

You propose two classes of people. There are Christians and there are those that act like Christians. I see no place in Scripture that supports this view…The entire OT is about obedience and disobedience…

Actually, I believe that there are Christians and non-Christians. The Christian life will be a penitential one marked by the pursuit of holiness, i.e. obedience. The non-Christian life will be one of disobedience.

In 2Peter…we see this…

Peter makes it clear that you need to add virtue to your faith and virtue is habit, as you agreed previously to what I posted from the Catechism…

I still agree with it. I never backtracked on what I said earlier, you just refuse to acknowledge that my position is valid. You see a contradiction, where there is none.

and Peter makes it clear there are those that do and those that do not…not those that act like and those that are fulfilled. He does not support acting like a Christian and being a Christian as two classes of people…

But faith, as this verse shows and you agree, underlies all of this. As you said, “Peter makes clear that you need to add virtue to your faith.” It is possible to do many things that are good outside of faith and this is the point. There are people who are really good at living “virtuous” lives without placing their faith in Christ, without choosing to hate sin, and without pursuing holiness (which is distinct from pursuing wholesome living).

So yes, you are correct “He does not support acting like a Christian and being a Christian as two classes of people” because people who only act like Christians are not Christians.

Paul commences the letter to the Romans with the overwhelming message of Obedience of Faith, Faith in action…you must do…

Romans 1

and he ends the letter to conclude that this is what this letter is about, Obedient Faith, Faith in action…doing not being…

Romans 16

And the obvious fact in all of this is that it is not simply “obedience” and “action” but “obedience of faith” and “Faith in action.” Obedience to some human standard of behavior (however noble) or moral action not arising out of faith is something that any decent human will do. Christians, on the other hand, should do everything in and according to faith and as unto the Lord.

Paul then makes it clear that you should not be passing judgement on those that act and those that do…If you are judging someone with a mask, false self, those that are acting like Christians then you defy the teaching of Paul…

Who am I judging? Give me one name of one person whom I have judged? You can’t, because I haven’t judged anyone. The only person I’ve personally discussed is myself. I don’t think Paul was forbidding people from assessing their own spiritual states.

If you think me posting a slogan under my comments is a blanket condemnation of everyone who reads it, I can only say that you will have to be uncomfortable because I am not condemning anyone. I’m only offering food for thought.

and Paul makes it clear you are rewarded by your doing not being…

And Jesus also makes clear that there were people who were doing a lot of stuff in his name but did not know him or do the will of his Father:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Now we know that His people are not perfect and His people sometimes fail…and Paul makes it clear that you should not judge anyone, he does not even Judge himself…and that you should work out your salvation with fear and trembling…

I’m not disputing this.

I hope the lurkers realize that this notion of

Stop Acting like A christian just be one is not consistent with revealed truth, is judgmental, creates two classes of Christians never heard of…there are obedient and disobedient…

And I hope the lurkers realize that the above paragraph is the opinion of one person, namely CopticChristian. There is no judgmentalism going on, just real talk. There is no “two class” Christianity being proposed, only a stress on what real Christianity is.

There is no mask, false self, chakra, Kundlani and any other nonsense found in Revealed truth found in the Catechism or Scripture…so if you want to be a Christian…

Get Baptized…

Learn your faith
Practice the Sacramental Life
Model Christ, act like Christ so you can be like Christ
Pray…

or get hold of a Bible, some Pastors book and see which class of people you belong to those that act and those that are…your choice…

Or just listen to CopticChristian since he’s got all the answers.

 

[CopticChristian]

It’s only inconsistent to you because you insist on using a definition of “acting” that I’m not using. “Acting” in what we are saying refers to role playing or putting on a show. You, on the other hand, are defining “acting” as “actions.” I’ve repeatedly made this point, and you have repeatedly ignored it preferring to carry out the discussion on your on terms.

Actually, I believe that there are Christians and non-Christians. The Christian life will be a penitential one marked by the pursuit of holiness, i.e. obedience. The non-Christian life will be one of disobedience.

I still agree with it. I never backtracked on what I said earlier, you just refuse to acknowledge that my position is valid. You see a contradiction, where there is none.

But faith, as this verse shows and you agree, underlies all of this. As you said, “Peter makes clear that you need to add virtue to your faith.” It is possible to do many things that are good outside of faith and this is the point. There are people who are really good at living “virtuous” lives without placing their faith in Christ, without choosing to hate sin, and without pursuing holiness (which is distinct from pursuing wholesome living).

So yes, you are correct “He does not support acting like a Christian and being a Christian as two classes of people” because people who only act like Christians are not Christians.

And the obvious fact in all of this is that it is not simply “obedience” and “action” but “obedience of faith” and “Faith in action.” Obedience to some human standard of behavior (however noble) or moral action not arising out of faith is something that any decent human will do. Christians, on the other hand, should do everything in and according to faith and as unto the Lord.

Who am I judging? Give me one name of one person whom I have judged? You can’t, because I haven’t judged anyone. The only person I’ve personally discussed is myself. I don’t think Paul was forbidding people from assessing their own spiritual states.

If you think me posting a slogan under my comments is a blanket condemnation of everyone who reads it, I can only say that you will have to be uncomfortable because I am not condemning anyone. I’m only offering food for thought.

And Jesus also makes clear that there were people who were doing a lot of stuff in his name but did not know him or do the will of his Father:

I’m not disputing this.

And I hope the lurkers realize that the above paragraph is the opinion of one person, namely CopticChristian. There is no judgmentalism going on, just real talk. There is no “two class” Christianity being proposed, only a stress on what real Christianity is.

Or just listen to CopticChristian since he’s got all the answers.

Itwin,

The message is that the Catholic Church has the answers that can be found in the deposit of Faith found in the Catechism…a ready reference for understanding where there is no such thing as

False Self, Acting like a Christian, Masks or any other such nonsense…so the choice is a reliable source of revealed truth or something else…

Actually, I believe that there are Christians and non-Christians. The Christian life will be a penitential one marked by the pursuit of holiness, i.e. obedience. The non-Christian life will be one of disobedience.

This is true and Paul says in Roman’s that there are those in the Covenant not of the Covenant and those not in the Covenant that are in the Covenant and we just don’t know who they are or how God deals with them…no mask, no false self, no acting, no nonsense…

14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

and who judges them as acting like people of God or as people of God…it is God who judges them…not some Protestant pastor…

So, you may want to glorify yourself and others as you look down from wherever you are and see real Christians and those you have judged acting like Christians…if you like and the lurkers can decide whether they want to be children of God, doing as much as they can with the aid of grace and the Holy Spirit, never being judged by their fellow Christian in their journey…or enter a system where they will concern themselves as to whether someone is judging them as acting like or being…it is a choice…

You don’t like the message?

Don’t attack the messenger.

 

[guanophore]

and who judges them as acting like people of God or as people of God…it is God who judges them…not some Protestant pastor…

To be fair ,plenty of judgmentalism exists on both sides of the fence.

, you may want to glorify yourself and others as you look down from wherever you are and see real Christians and those you have judged acting like Christians…if you like and the lurkers can decide whether they want to be children of God, doing as much as they can with the aid of grace and the Holy Spirit, never being judged by their fellow Christian in their journey…or enter a system where they will concern themselves as to whether someone is judging them as acting like or being…it is a choice…

You don’t like the message?

Don’t attack the messenger.

In Itwin’s defense, I have been reading his posts for a long time, and I dont’ find him in any way putting himself across as judging others, or attempting to glorify himself. On the contrary, like only a handful of our separated brethen such as JonNC have been able to do here, he strongly represents his own faith tradition in a courteous manner here at CAF while he is constantly discredited and pressured to convert, as you have demonstrated here in your posts.

I believe that Itwin is already pursuaded that has already “decide(d) whether they want to be children of God, doing as much as they can with the aid of grace and the Holy Spirit, never being judged by their fellow Christian in their journey” and that he already has the aid and grace of the HS, and is hotly on the path of holiness in pursuit of the One Faith. To imply otherwise, as you seem to do here is…

well…

judgemental!

 

[PRmerger]

Or just listen to CopticChristian since he’s got all the answers.

This is unworthy of you, ltwin.

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak.

 

[AbideWithMe]

This is unworthy of you, ltwin.

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak.

I don’t know if you’ve read this whole thread, PRmerger, but Itwin has been, on the whole, patient, self-restrained and charitable while having a discussion that would have me banging my head against the wall.

 

[Miriam1947]

I don’t know if you’ve read this whole thread, PRmerger, but Itwin has been, on the whole, patient, self-restrained and charitable while having a discussion that would have me banging my head against the wall.

 

[empantarhei]

I don’t know if you’ve read this whole thread, PRmerger, but Itwin has been, on the whole, patient, self-restrained and charitable while having a discussion that would have me banging my head against the wall.

 

[Telestia]

I don’t know if you’ve read this whole thread, PRmerger, but Itwin has been, on the whole, patient, self-restrained and charitable while having a discussion that would have me banging my head against the wall.

I’ll 2nd that about Itwin. I wish that I was that constrained and patient. In my experience, I sometimes feel that some of the outspoken catholics protestant me. I’m not their Judge. God is the only Judge, I put my trust in Him. Nobody is saved because they belong to the only one right Christian organization. In fact, the Catholic Magisterial acknowledges that non-Catholic Christains will be saved.