Why do many evangelical protestants not describe themselves as "protestants"

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If you hear the word of God preached and hear that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the father but by him, then there is only two things you can do: believe that Jesus is who he said he is and follow him or not.
Itwin,

Ok…Preaching…someone has to preach the words…so far so good. Can this be anywhere…television, church, stadium…does it matter?

Then after you hear, you believe, as you say you make a decision? Correct?

Does this hearing, believing and accepting appear as something I can find in the Bible and where?
 
Christ went back to Heaven in May of the year 33 AD. No one alive today has ever heard His voice directly (apart from private visions and the like, which have to be tested).
Oh Lord! I didn’t realize we were on the level of kinder-gardeners. Yes, someone has to preach the gospel. This could be anyone. A priest, a minister, a 90 year old grandmother.
 
Itwin,

Ok…Preaching…someone has to preach the words…so far so good. Can this be anywhere…television, church, stadium…does it matter?
Yeah, anywhere.
Then after you hear, you believe, as you say you make a decision? Correct?

Does this hearing, believing and accepting appear as something I can find in the Bible and where?
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” is a theme that runs throughout the Bible.
 
Oh Lord! I didn’t realize we were on the level of kinder-gardeners. Yes, someone has to preach the gospel. This could be anyone. A priest, a minister, a 90 year old grandmother.
How do you discern that it’s the words of Jesus that they’re preaching, and not their own personal opinions, or something they think Jesus ought to have said, or would have said if He had only thought of it (ie: women preaching in Church, etc.)
 
Yeah, anywhere.

“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” is a theme that runs throughout the Bible.
Itwin,

So if what you are saying here, my believing, in my creature nature is a work…I do something and I get saved…so that you propose that you believe something and because of that belief you get rewarded…this is works. Pagans can believe and all they have to do is hear preaching believe and get saved?

This may be the problem with the tension you speak of…

Keep acting like a Christian so you can be one…
 
My grandmother, bless her soul, said once, “I’m not a Christian. I’m a Catholic.” My family still laughs about it to this day.
 
Itwin,

So if what you are saying here, my believing, in my creature nature is a work…I do something and I get saved…so that you propose that you believe something and because of that belief you get rewarded…this is works. Pagans can believe and all they have to do is hear preaching believe and get saved?

This may be the problem with the tension you speak of…

Keep acting like a Christian so you can be one…
If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments. So, if we believe in Jesus, then we will follow him and obey him. As I’ve already said, time and time and time again, I don’t believe that “believing in Jesus” is merely giving mental assent to a proposition. If we have faith in Jesus, then we will do what those who love Jesus do, keep his commandments. It is not our work that saves, it is Jesus’ work that saves. He who knew no sin became sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 
We also live in a culture that is a collection of subcultures. And while the dominant culture of America and the West at large is secular and hostile to religious belief, there is (or are) a Christian subculture(s) in which it is beneficial to put on an outward show of religiosity, which is what I did because the circumstances that I was born into meant that I moved in almost exclusively Christian circles for most of my life before high school graduation. .
There is a difference between doing good things for what seem like “wrong” reasons, and dressing up sin in the clothing of piety, which is what the Pharisees were doing.

They were putting on sackcloth and ashes to give an appearance of fasting, while stealing food from the poor and eating it in front of them, while admonishing them to fast.

They were stealing money from the elderly and calling it “Korban” (a gift).

They were making commerce in the House of God, in a place of prayer.

And yes, there are Christians today who dress up sin in the clothing of piety - however, I doubt that you were ever guilty of such.

For example, those who give church ceremonies to same-sex couples. Sunday School teachers who assist young women in procuring abortions. Anyone who uses his position of Church authority to harm anyone - these are doing what the Pharisees did.

But someone who prays, reads the Bible, goes to Mass and Confession, and does the works of mercy because he knows it is expected of him isn’t doing anything wrong - far from it, and I wish we had more Christians who did good because it was expected of them, rather than waiting until they like doing it before they start (which could be a really long time), in case they might be a hypocrite or a Pharisee.
 
How do you discern that it’s the words of Jesus that they’re preaching, and not their own personal opinions, or something they think Jesus ought to have said, or would have said if He had only thought of it (ie: women preaching in Church, etc.)
Me, I refer to what my church teaches, to what others more intelligent than I and have spent a lot more time in the Scriptures have said, and to self-study and prayer for understanding.
 
Me, I refer to what my church teaches, to what others more intelligent than I and have spent a lot more time in the Scriptures have said, and to self-study and prayer for understanding.
So, a “holy tradtion” of sorts, then. 🙂
 
If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments. So, if we believe in Jesus, then we will follow him and obey him. As I’ve already said, time and time and time again, I don’t believe that “believing in Jesus” is merely giving mental assent to a proposition. If we have faith in Jesus, then we will do what those who love Jesus do, keep his commandments. It is not our work that saves, it is Jesus’ work that saves. He who knew no sin became sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Amen on the 10 commandments, thought what else did Jesus command his apostles in regard of His church?
 
There is a difference between doing good things for what seem like “wrong” reasons, and dressing up sin in the clothing of piety, which is what the Pharisees were doing.

They were putting on sackcloth and ashes to give an appearance of fasting, while stealing food from the poor and eating it in front of them, while admonishing them to fast.

They were stealing money from the elderly and calling it “Korban” (a gift).

They were making commerce in the House of God, in a place of prayer.

And yes, there are Christians today who dress up sin in the clothing of piety - however, I doubt that you were ever guilty of such.

For example, those who give church ceremonies to same-sex couples. Sunday School teachers who assist young women in procuring abortions. Anyone who uses his position of Church authority to harm anyone - these are doing what the Pharisees did.

But someone who prays, reads the Bible, goes to Mass and Confession, and does the works of mercy because he knows it is expected of him isn’t doing anything wrong - far from it, and I wish we had more Christians who did good because it was expected of them, rather than waiting until they like doing it before they start (which could be a really long time), in case they might be a hypocrite or a Pharisee.
What I did was for myself. I continued to sin (when no one I knew was looking), with no true remorse or intention to repent. I didn’t do anything illegal or on its face morally wrong, but what I did that was good was certainly not done for the sake of Christ or out of love for people I was helping. It was because I had an image to keep up. I’m sorry, but after living that kind of life, I don’t find that kind of life attractive. I don’t buy that all you have to do is “act” a certain way externally to be a Christian, and that is what “Stop acting like a Christian, and just be one” stands for. It makes sense to me and other people I’ve encountered. If you don’t understand it or get it then fine. I’ve found it a helpful thing to keep in mind.
 
Amen on the 10 commandments, thought what else did Jesus command his apostles in regard of His church?
I never referred to the 10 Commandments in my post. Not even once. The commandments of Jesus is a general phrase for everything that Jesus commanded!
 
Zooey,

Are you self appointed translator or designated translator?
I’m an English (&Latin) teacher’s daughter. 😃
I have found myslef frequently in the place where I know what folks are trying to say, & not getting through to each other…I suppose you could say I was designated by circumstances.🤷
 
What I did was for myself. I continued to sin (when no one I knew was looking), with no true remorse or intention to repent. I didn’t do anything illegal or on its face morally wrong, but what I did that was good was certainly not done for the sake of Christ or out of love for people I was helping. It was because I had an image to keep up. I’m sorry, but after living that kind of life, I don’t find that kind of life attractive. I don’t buy that all you have to do is “act” a certain way externally to be a Christian, and that is what “Stop acting like a Christian, and just be one” stands for. It makes sense to me and other people I’ve encountered. If you don’t understand it or get it then fine. I’ve found it a helpful thing to keep in mind.
Right, but instead of rejecting the actions, you should embrace the actions and try to develop a matching attitude, rather than choosing instead to act on how you really feel, or to do nothing at all.

Putting on sackcloth and ashes was not the evil thing that the Pharisees did - stealing from the poor was the evil thing. They needed to continue to put on sackcloth and ashes - and maybe even do it more - and stop stealing from the poor, and actually fast, instead of just appearing to fast.

They would have been no further ahead if they had simply stopped putting on sackcloth and ashes, and simply stole from the poor openly and for all to see - that would not have been the proper solution to their problem. The solution was for them to stop stealing, and start fasting.
 
If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments. So, if we believe in Jesus, then we will follow him and obey him. As I’ve already said, time and time and time again, I don’t believe that “believing in Jesus” is merely giving mental assent to a proposition. If we have faith in Jesus, then we will do what those who love Jesus do, keep his commandments. It is not our work that saves, it is Jesus’ work that saves. He who knew no sin became sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Itwin,

Faith is a gift. I cannot for the life of me understand how it is you believe you received this gift.

Keeping the commandments is as you recall as a result of Human Virtue, grace animating and causing moral virtues coupled with Theologic Virtues to cause us to keep the commandments by the Grace of God through Faith in God…all a gift. You said you agreed with all I wrote about this when quoting the Catechism and here I see confusion.

I believe that you as many Protestants do, get Catechized in reverse.

First you know what it is the revealed truths are before you embark on this journey…

Protestants get saved, whatever that means, but in the course get Baptized…you disallow any value, however I believe it infuses you with Faith/Hope/Charity and then you get Catechized and that is the tension…since there is no one place or thing you can point to to say…this is what I and everyone else believes…and why we do what we do…

You then attend Bible study, men’s groups, other groups and the Pastor uses sourcebooks to hammer home the theology…and you read books, like the one you have from the Pastor that created this notion of stop acting…It takes you years to get Catechized through this method and because you are always in tension, it creates tension…

Your pastors use books to preach the message they want you to hear to believe the Pentacostal message…there are volumes of this stuff for the pastors to teach/catechize you in the process of your attending your services…

The Pentecostal Minister’s Sermon Resource Manual, Volume 1
By: Floyd D. Carey
 
I’m an English (&Latin) teacher’s daughter. 😃
I have found myslef frequently in the place where I know what folks are trying to say, & not getting through to each other…I suppose you could say I was designated by circumstances.🤷
Zoey,

I am a Pharmacists son, a Dad steeped in Philosophy and teachings of the Church, a Physician, a student of General Semantics, NLP, Neurosemantics, Ericksonian Hypnotherapy…and I find myself in dialogue not wanting clarity.

I know where I am headed in a conversation and my questions are not necessarily to clarify as you may believe. I am not concerned about the lack of clarity. I am looking for nuances of communication, insights by words used, the difficulty in expressing thoughts and other issues that you may look into by reading two books I will recommend.

Your designation does not aid me. If and when I find myself looking for clarity in my postings, I will post…CAN ANYONE OUT THERE PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS NOT MAKING ANY SENSE…you may look in the sky and like batman your logo of a cat/orange peel hemlet, will appear…then and only then you will know I am asking for clarity…

I am looking for how someone thinks and sometimes that means no clarity…when you understand this then you will see that I am looking for and answering not necessarily in response but with thoughts of something else and unless you read minds you cannot bring clarity to my postings…

Read these books, then get back to me…
 
That could only happen in a culture or a place where such activities evoked the praise of men.

**Exactly! And to expand on what Itwin said below: though, yes, you’re right that our larger cukture doesn’t value religious actions, there are subcultures within our larger culture where appearing religious will get a child (for my particular example) the praise and attention that children need. And so a clever child learns that acting religious is a good way to get more praise from the important people in his/her life. It doesn’t just happen in Christian families; it can be any religion. I’ve even seen it happen in New Age-y families. And it varies, again, in degree.

It need not be a sign of dysfunction in a family or religious subculture (though it can be). To illustrate with another, non-religious, example, I’ll use myself. My own family was fairly healthy. But, I had the sort of gifts that get a child extra attention—academic success and artistic talent. These things were highly valued in my family. My parents showed my sister, brother, and myself plenty of unconditional love. Nevertheless, sometimes** I felt that what made me really worthwhile and worthy of attention just might be my giftedness. It wasn’t my parents’ fault–I made the incorrect connection on my own. So, as part of growing up, I had to learn that my value and identity never rested in my artistic talent. The “talented artist” was a mask for me at times. Sometimes (often, in fact) I did artwork for good reasons, but at other times, having done the work for its own sake, I later let it become a way to get praise from people.

While it may seem to you a tenuous connection to make between artistic/academic giftedness and religious precociousness leading someone to hide behind a certain identity, I think the same dynamic underlies both.
ltwin;10340622:
We also live in a culture that is a collection of subcultures. And while the dominant culture of America and the West at large is secular and hostile to religious belief, there is (or are) a Christian subculture(s) in which it is beneficial to put on an outward show of religiosity, which is what I did because the circumstances that I was born into meant that I moved in almost exclusively Christian circles for most of my life before high school graduation. .
 
ETA: Also, the point was well made above, that the Pharisees were not doing good things to get praise from human beings; they were doing evil things secretly, and dressing the evil up in the clothing of piety - for example, stealing from the elderly was given a ritual name, and permitted in the name of God - a clear case of “taking the name of the Lord thy God in vain” if ever there was one - and they were making commerce in the Temple by declaring all animals “unclean” and forcing people to destroy the animals they had brought with them, and then purchase new ones in the Temple (giving profit to the Pharisees) - and using the area of the Temple that was supposed to have been reserved for quiet prayer by those who were in a process of converting to Judaism (a modern day equivalent would be, to host a bake sale in the RCIA classroom, and then tell those who had brought their lunch that they weren’t allowed to eat their lunch in there, but that they were required by law to buy a cake instead.)
Jmcrae–

To continue on from my previous post—Look at Matthew 6:1-18. Jesus is criticising the Pharisees for doing good things here. He starts with, “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father in heaven.”

In verse 2, He talks about a good thing–giving to the poor. He tells us to do it in secret, and criticises the Pharisees for doing it----though good in itself—in front of men, for honor from them.

In verse 5, He talks about another good thing–praying. He criticises the Pharisees for doing it for attention from men, to be seen by them. He does tell us how to pray, giving us “Our Father…”. bible.cc/matthew/6.htm
 
Jmcrae,

It is a site for someone that has an eclectic approach to things like Addiction, CoDependency and other problems…it is not a site for those that want to learn the Faith…

For my money get hold of the Audio Catechism for Adults USA, $42.00…spend some time there and avoid all the psyhobabble…false self, Chakras, hypocrites and get on board lil chillin…room for many a more…
Abide,

This is CAF, you brought this site to a CAF and here it is intended that as Catholics we discuss the Faith and provide defense of the Faith…

False self and the source you brought is not relevant to the discussion, it is only relevant to the dysfunctional world that the site addresses. I pray for those people, I have experienced those people, and I try to avoid those people…

I am real, I relate to real and I expect others to be real…I have little patience for psychobabble and nonsense when it comes to

Profession of Faith
Sacramental Life
Life in Christ
Prayer

thank you…
Abide,

I have no interest in crediting or discrediting the SP forum. If it brought you here, Ok. It is not a place for apologetics and that is what the CAF is. It serves a purpose. You brought this to the CAF. You thought the notion of “false self” was relevant. It is relevant to dysfunction and if there is dysfunction it should be eradicated.
Coptic–You say you have no interest in discrediting the Shalom Place forum. But here you do…you talk about it as psychobabble and nonsense and say it does not support the Faith. I’d hate to see what you’d say about a group you do want to discredit. :rolleyes:

Shalom Place forum is hosted by the Dominican Sisters of Peace. The SP moderator, Phil, runs their internet ministry; the forum is mostly to offer support for Christian contemplative practice.

I’m kind of disgusted at the way you dismissed fellow Catholics without taking the time to understand what you were talking about…so much for brotherly love.
 
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