I believe in the Trinity and you have to believe in the Trinity to me a member in my church. Some non-Catholics believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and some don’t. Do you believe in once saved always saved? I don’t. What is the hypostatic union? The only reason my church doesn’t have a Saturday service is because they don’t believe it would be very beneficial. I have gone to church on Saturdays.
Christ has accomplished everything through his redemptive sacrifice. He has redeemed the entire world. You confuse redemption and salvation, however. Christ started a Church for one purpose, to continue the work he had begun while on earth. And what is the point of continuing Christ’s work: the union of God with man in Jesus Christ.
Good, then you agree that this isn’t just about me and Jesus.
The sacraments that will save me are Baptism, Eucharist and Reconciliation.
No, sorry, it cannot be more assured than that. These are sacraments which Christ himself instituted and it is Christ himself that is at work in each of them. They are channels of God’s grace. I will repeat, it is a pity that you believe you can do without them.
This is a Protestant pipe dream. You choose to believe in some invisible “church” because you refuse to be part of the real Church, founded upon real Apostles and real bishops as their successors. This original Church has had the seven sacraments since the beginning. You know I don’t blame you, I just feel sorry that you have inherited a faith tradition that has abandoned all that the Apostles handed down.
Hey Coptic,
To be honest my husband at the time had to bodily drag me into Pacific Community Church… I knew many of the members and I was very disillusioned if this was the church they attended due to the life lead outside of Church and it seemed all very wrong…I was finally forced to attend and I hated it…the Pastor preached about himself and cried like a baby continually…there is more that went on, but I knew there was something VERY BIG MISSING in all the Evangelical Churches I went too on my search…every one different. To me the reason the term Protestant is never used is because then they would all be in a singular catagory just like the Catholic faith, which stands alone and is ALWAYS the same…and to use the term Protestant would diminish all the different churches available …and they want TO STAND ALONE themselves. each and every one of the MANY different Protestant faiths based on their chosen beliefs…It was only by the Grace of God I began dating a old friend, who I was aware was Catholic, who went to Mass with his son and practiced his faith in a way I had never witnessed before, and upon seeing all the books he had under the CATHOLIC umbrella I was very, very interested. Finally, I knew this was what I had been searching for even tho I had no idea what Catholicism actually was, other then very well informed and only ONE Faith unlike the Protestant Faith of MANY. I felt really cheated because I had never met Mary, Mother of God, or any of the Saints…both which have no value whatsoever in the Evangelical Churches…I felt LIED TOO about everything because that is exactly what Protestants do as far as I am concerned…they LIE to their followers. I took the Sacraments on December 12, 2011 at the age of 56 and I married that very Catholic Man. There is NO DOUBT when you are CATHOLIC.Roostah,Hey Coptic,
I’m glad you put a period at the end of your first sentence. Maybe that will help Justa and Steve.
If you mean do I go to a building and enter organized religion, I’d say no, but yes I do gather with other believers in Jesus, an ecclesia, that is (a) the church.
Organized religion is disorganized, what we see today is not what Jesus established, it survives but at best man has twisted and deformed it badly. Did Jesus establish a multi tier system of clergy and then common folks at the bottom? Mathew 20:26 makes it quite clear he did not.
How did I get the gift you ask…well I was searching and God gave me the gift through Jesus. There are millions of born again believers like myself who will tell you it happened at a particular time and place, they usually remember it succinctly, where the scales fall from the eyes and the vision of Christ on the cross makes clear understanding of the gift he gave to those that receive that gift.
I believe christianity started in Israel, Jerusalum or there abouts.
The scirptures were written in Greek and Hebrew, I think you know that.
Well King James translated the “authorized” (haha) version. He changed a few words to perpetuate his authority…Words like “ecclesia” being mistranslated “church”. Then of course the king totally mistranslated Hebrews 13:17 and a few other similar verses…that’s why you need a concordance. I believe the bible is God’s word, but you’d best have a concordance handy
Thanks, I’m sure we can use all the help we can get.
Where do you “gather”? In your mind? Christ started a real Church, with real leaders and everything that would continue Christ’s work on earth.
In order to know this you must possess the fulness Truth against which you are able to conclude that “organized religion” has twisted and deformed it (at best). This means you are either infallible in your interpretation or what you say may be in error. Which is it?
Yes he did. He started with the Apostles, Peter being first among them. They then ordained bishops and instructed the faithful to practice only what they or one they had sent had told them.
Roostah, I have had very distinct conversion points in my life and I can remember each one very clearly, to the point of remembering how the light was coming through the window at the time. They were stunning experiences, all of them based on God allowing me to see a glimpse of how much he loves me. These experiences drove me closer to the Church and especially the Eucharist and Reconciliation. Why would Jesus tell me one thing and tell you the opposite? I am still unclear as to what you recieved.
Do you mean the Coverdale and Tyndale bibles? It’s claimed they are the purest translations, though I struggle. But as you know, King James is perhaps the most widely used bible and apparently it’s his… his name is right on it. King James Authorized.
Roostah,
Since you ascribe all your beliefs to a book…and scales have fallen from your eyes…help me.
Tell me what the Spirit leads you to believe this mean…?
You cannot “be” without “acting.”
In order to receive what Christ accomplished in a far away country 2,000 years ago, the means is the Sacraments. The Sacraments do not work all by themselves - they are conduits of grace. Grace comes from Christ on the Cross, flows through the Sacraments, and into our lives here and now. It is Christ who gave us the Sacraments, in order so that we could receive the grace that He obtained for us on the Cross.
Yep, I find myself often unsubscribing for the same reasons.
Itwin, in the ongoing cross examination by Coptic Christian, you have my deepest sympathy. :tiphat::bowdown2::banghead:
It’s quite sad that from 100 to 400AD the Church wrote about the Real Presence. A few examples below:“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).
It makes sense to not label yourself as a Protestant because none of us lived 500 years ago. I prefer the lable of Christian over Protestant myself. I do find it interesting that Catholics are always telling me to come home to the Catholic Church, yet I was never Catholic in the first place. In addition, Scripture tells us that this earth is not our home… our home is heavenly and upward. We are simply aliens of this world according to Peter.
But you can “act” without “being.” R. Hollis Gause, in Living in the Spirit: The Way of Salvation, wrote in his chapter on the Penitential Life a section on the nature of repentance and looks to 2 Corinthians 7 for its characteristics:
I appreciate your sympathy. It can be a lonely experience to sit on the witness stand.
From the Augsburg Confession:
As Lutherans, we confess the Nicene Creed, which ends, “And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.”
Itwin,But you can “act” without “being.” R. Hollis Gause, in Living in the Spirit: The Way of Salvation, wrote in his chapter on the Penitential Life a section on the nature of repentance and looks to 2 Corinthians 7 for its characteristics:
I appreciate your sympathy. It can be a lonely experience to sit on the witness stand.
In answer to the question of this thread, I had made statements that there were christians who were not aligned with the Catholic Church before the reformation. The reformation did not happen over night, it came about from pent up frustrations. Simple observation of people (including christians) tells us unequivocally that not everybody would have been in agreement with some or many of voluminous ongoing edicts made in the formation of catholicism, hence there would have been christians who walked away from the church that was being organized and consolidated.
. While much is written about such christians, citing such will only be dismissed and disqualified. Hey none of us here is an eye witness to what was happening 1900 years ago, but refuting there was discord is like refuting the sun rose in the east and set in the west.Miriam,
Your former selves. Sinning requires action. To not sin requires alternate action. You cannot just be a sinner without doing something and you cannot do contrary by just being, you must also do something, you must act in ways that other than sin. You cannot stop acting and you cannot just be.
With the grace of God, leading a life, worthy of the Gospel is not being it is doing…
Are you invited to be like Christ by not acting like Christ, just being like Christ or as Christ did, doing what was pleasing…you must do to become…
You have to strive, act, you have to imitate, do, you have to conform your thoughts, words, actions…all doing, not being…for as you believe and think so you act and speak and what is it you are doing…being? No, following an example so you can become…Don’t stop striving, thinking, believing, imitating, acting like Christ because you never become like Christ…it is impossible to be without doing…
and all of this causes us to live…and when we live, we think, believe, act…otherwise you can go sit under a tree and BE…