Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error

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Mannyfit75

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Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.

Catholics here and Catholic Apologetics have refuted any error they claim through the use of Scripture, ECF writings, and tradition. Yet they still insist we do. It’s like they are blind nor hard of hearing.

Most of the ones I know who claim this are completely ignorant of the Catholic Church and many of them completely misunderstood the CC’s doctrines and practices.

I do know there are Non-Catholic Christians who are open minded and don’t go around telling Catholics, “That is a bread you are worshipping… You are breaking God’s Commandment.”

For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
 
Just because you explained yourself doesn’t mean there is no other logical interpretation. If we (the Protestants) thought your explaination was perfect and the correct one, we’d obviously be Catholics now instead of Protestants.

I personally try not to start threads about “You are teaching error” (except in rare cases like people claiming 100’s of thousands of Denominations instead of saying 1-3 thousand. (Definately not a doctrine disagreement).

My purpose in being on this board is twofold:
  1. Make sure that I properly understand Catholic Doctrine.
  2. Help Catholics properly understand Protestants. (For number one I could have just lurked indefinately, but I got frustrated lurking because people so often said things about protestants that weren’t true.)
Neither has anything to do with accusing or trying to convert or be converted.

I will occasionally engage in friendly debates, though my debate skills are pretty bad. LOL
 
Syele said:
Just because you explained yourself doesn’t mean there is no other logical interpretation. If we (the Protestants) thought your explaination was perfect and the correct one, we’d obviously be Catholics now instead of Protestants.

I personally try not to start threads about “You are teaching error” (except in rare cases like people claiming 100’s of thousands of Denominations instead of saying 1-3 thousand. (Definately not a doctrine disagreement).

My purpose in being on this board is twofold:
  1. Make sure that I properly understand Catholic Doctrine.
  2. Help Catholics properly understand Protestants. (For number one I could have just lurked indefinately, but I got frustrated lurking because people so often said things about protestants that weren’t true.)
Neither has anything to do with accusing or trying to convert or be converted.

I will occasionally engage in friendly debates, though my debate skills are pretty bad. LOL
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We, Catholics will give our best to help you understand our Church through prayer and mediation.

I can also agree on your second statement. I am willing to learn Protestantism. I know some believe in Real Presence and some do not. That I understand clearly. I can’t convince a Non-Catholic Christian that is really Jesus in the Eucharist. I leave that to God.

I am here to give Non-Catholic Christians the correct doctrines and practices that the Catholic Church teaches, and educate them in some text concerning Christian history and disprove any so called errors.

We have so far. I don’t expect to convert non-Catholic Christians to Catholicism. It is not my job. It is the Holy Spirit.

Please understand that I am just an amateur Catholic Apogetic and I can make erroneous statements, which often corrected by other Catholics here who knows more about Catholicism more than me.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
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If you take issue with people who are close minded take it up with the Holy Spirit…
Many are fed the truth, but it seems, even with us Catholics, a person’s ability to comprehend the truth is dependent not upon their efforts as much as it is the Holy Spirit opening their ears, eyes, heart according to God’s time table, not ours.

Patience, charity, prayer is what we must offer every time we encounter people who just don’t get it. And as I noted, it happens amongst our own, not just when we are dealing with non-Catholics.
 
Syele said:
I personally try not to start threads about “You are teaching error” (except in rare cases like people claiming 100’s of thousands of Denominations instead of saying 1-3 thousand. (Definately not a doctrine disagreement).
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My understanding is it is an unbiased encyclopedia style informant that the #'s are based on. Yes, the well known ones are only numbered in the thousands, but I hardly agree that you know about every schismatic protestant group in the world.

Just my two cents, maybe it’s only worth one though.
 
i think most of the “errors” that are brought up either come out of not knowing what the church actually teaches (something you addressed) or they come from individuals who acted in the name of the church in a way not consistent with scripture or the teaching of the church. when this happens (especially in high profile situations) it can be extremely damaging to the church and it can cause others to say that the church was in error.

for example:
i’m sure everyone here agrees that in the midst of the abuse by the priests, certain bishops should not have just transferred those priests to other places so they could repeat the abuse. obviously this isn’t the church teaching error but it is a mistake that a number of high offices within the church made.

another:
indulgences shouldn’t have been sold to pay back the church’s loans. this did take place. it is not in-line with the church’s teaching or character as a whole, but certain men (with high positions of rank) participated in this horrible practice. this would be an error done within the church but not an error of the church.

i hope you can see what i’m saying here. i do have certain points on which i disagree with the RCC (and those keep me from being in full communion). i know their argument and through extensive study on my part, i don’t think theirs is the strongest argument (historically, scripturally, theologically). i have a deep appreciation for the catholic church and would never accuse her of teaching error purposely. of course this doesn’t seem to be a thread to discuss the points on which i disagree (i have done that on many others), this just seems to be a thread to rant.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? . . …
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Because if the Catholic Church is right, they are in the wrong place.

It is much superior to the position that everyone is right; so I don’t need to worry about the differences.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.

Catholics here and Catholic Apologetics have refuted any error they claim through the use of Scripture, ECF writings, and tradition. Yet they still insist we do. It’s like they are blind nor hard of hearing.

Most of the ones I know who claim this are completely ignorant of the Catholic Church and many of them completely misunderstood the CC’s doctrines and practices.

I do know there are Non-Catholic Christians who are open minded and don’t go around telling Catholics, “That is a bread you are worshipping… You are breaking God’s Commandment.”

For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
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It seems that anti-Catholic attitudes among protestants are a result is a result of an anti-Catholic upbringing:) If the loved ones told how bad the CC was you won’t change your mind easily… About Eucharist: it’s not only a matter of believing the Scripture or not. It’s also a matter of knowlegde - were many Eucharistic miracles confirming that Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus. If protestants reject FACTS (not opinions or beliefs) it IS a problem (their problem, not ours). I don’t know how to call it, maybe a kind of a mental disease widly spread among our separated brothers?
 
Look at it this way, if you have beliefs that are different than those of the Catholic Church, admitting that the Catholic faith is correct would mean you would have to accept that your belief system is wrong. The one thing that people hold most dear is their personal beliefs. It takes a very strong person to admit that what they believe is incorrect. And in this case if you admit that the Cathoplic Church is right there is only one end result - you must become Catholic. That is why there are so many lies and untruths about the Catholic faith and why so many people are fanatical in their anti-Catholicism. To support a belief system that goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church. The only way to change this is to explain what the differences are and why - and to do so with respect and charity.
Remeber the point is not to win the argument it is to plant the seed. You may win an argument but you could lose a soul. Give the information as clearly as possible, explain it as best you can, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

Stillkickin
 
Before this tread is derrailed into a Protestant vs Catholic debate.
In my opinion, and I was educated in a Jesuit school, while Catholics seem to devote a lot of time explaing what they belive and little time debating what other people belive in it seems that in certain protestant denominations is a very big deal to debate Catholic beliefs or what they thing are Catholic beliefs.
I guess that is a symthom of insecurity. They have to justify their belief system against catholicism instead to have it stand on their own.
 
inthecloud said:
Before this tread is derrailed into a Protestant vs Catholic debate.
In my opinion, and I was educated in a Jesuit school, while Catholics seem to devote a lot of time explaing what they belive and little time debating what other people belive in it seems that in certain protestant denominations is a very big deal to debate Catholic beliefs or what they thing are Catholic beliefs.
I guess that is a symthom of insecurity. They have to** justify** their belief system against catholicism instead to have it stand on their own.
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imho this is the key word. In order to justify that they are not Catholic, they have to pronounce that the Catholic Church has gone astray. Face it, while the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus, all other churches have a man as their founder. So to justify the split from the Catholic faith they have to come up with a reason the Church is in error.

Did you ever notice that the doctrine of most independent “Christian” churches is based on what is wrong with the Catholic Church? It is easier for them to define their doctrine this way as a method of separating themselves from the Catholic Church.
 
I think the obvious reason is because we think that the Catholic Church is in error on certain things. That does not justify anti-Catholicism, but neither does it mean that we should express agreement where there is none. The same question could be asked with respect to why Catholics tell Protestants they are in error, and the answer would probably be the same.

While Catholics would disagree that the Catholic Church is capable of error, it is my firm belief that every church is imperfect in some way.
 
SyCarl said:
I think the obvious reason is because we think that the Catholic Church is in error on certain things. That does not justify anti-Catholicism, but neither does it mean that we should express agreement where there is none. The same question could be asked with respect to why Catholics tell Protestants they are in error, and the answer would probably be the same.

While Catholics would disagree that the Catholic Church is capable of error, it is my firm belief that every church is imperfect in some way.
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For one thing Christians who hold Protestant Tradition dating back to the 1500s departed from the truth. Historically speaking, only two Churches date back to the Apostles, Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church. However, Eastern Orthodox itself is divided and cannot bring itself to full conscious on certain moral issues such as contraception.

The only Church that bears the mark of a True Church is this. It is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. It’s the Catholic Church. Protestantism base its theology on Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidi. Two new theological ideas brought up by the Fathers of the Reformers.

That is why Catholics have a more justification to say Protestantism is erroneous in its theology. If Protestantism were true, Catholicism had to be false in all its claim. The belief that Jesus Christ established a physical Church upon Peter has more proof in historical Christianity as well as the testimony written in Sacred Scripture.

There is no proof that Early Church from the first Generation of Christians (St. Clement, St. Polycarp, St. Ignatius, etc) held Sola Scriptura nor Sola Fidi belief. Not even the ECF that succeeded the Apostolic Fathers held such belief.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
For one thing Christians who hold Protestant Tradition dating back to the 1500s departed from the truth. Historically speaking, only two Churches date back to the Apostles, Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church. However, Eastern Orthodox itself is divided and cannot bring itself to full conscious on certain moral issues such as contraception.

The only Church that bears the mark of a True Church is this. It is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. It’s the Catholic Church. Protestantism base its theology on Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidi. Two new theological ideas brought up by the Fathers of the Reformers.

That is why Catholics have a more justification to say Protestantism is erroneous in its theology. If Protestantism were true, Catholicism had to be false in all its claim. The belief that Jesus Christ established a physical Church upon Peter has more proof in historical Christianity as well as the testimony written in Sacred Scripture.

There is no proof that Early Church from the first Generation of Christians (St. Clement, St. Polycarp, St. Ignatius, etc) held Sola Scriptura nor Sola Fidi belief. Not even the ECF that succeeded the Apostolic Fathers held such belief.
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What you are asserting is Catholics can say Protestants are wrong because Catholicism is right. That is what you believe. However Protestants do not accept that Catholicism is without error. You are effectively saying we can say you are wrong but you can’t say we are wrong. Each side believes it is right otherwise there would not be different sides. Protestants do not believe what we do because we dislike Catholics or out of some kind of vendetta or perveres nature. We believe what we do because we believe it is God’s truth.

Protestants believe that our churches are descended from the Apostles. Because they left what was felt to be a church that had become corrupt and error ridden does not deprive them of the Christian heritage that went before them. A secular example may be in order. The United States was originally settled by the British. In 1776 the colonies declared their independence. The fact that they no longer were part of Britain did not change their descent from the British or deprive them of their British heritage. They chose what they believed was the right choice in severing their ties with Britain and Protestants did the same with the Catholic Church. Because Catholics deny that Protestants are apostolic does not mean that we aren’t.

As to the Church Fathers, that is better left to another thread.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.

Catholics here and Catholic Apologetics have refuted any error they claim through the use of Scripture, ECF writings, and tradition. Yet they still insist we do. It’s like they are blind nor hard of hearing.

Most of the ones I know who claim this are completely ignorant of the Catholic Church and many of them completely misunderstood the CC’s doctrines and practices.

I do know there are Non-Catholic Christians who are open minded and don’t go around telling Catholics, “That is a bread you are worshipping… You are breaking God’s Commandment.”

For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
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Your generalizations about Protestants are unfounded. Your attacks are becoming redundant. Most of your questions are pointed and you know the answers quite well before you pose the questions. Why do you keep stirring this?? You are the one making the attacks. You thread here proves it!
 
BrewMax said:
Your generalizations about Protestants are unfounded. Your attacks are becoming redundant. Most of your questions are pointed and you know the answers quite well before you pose the questions. Why do you keep stirring this?? You are the one making the attacks. You thread here proves it!
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Strawman liveth.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.
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I’m not sure what the word “openly” is doing there. Are you saying that you secretly attack the faith of non-Catholics, and this is somehow better?

By definition, non-Catholics think the Catholic Church is in error, if only in its exclusive claims to truth. Similarly, by virtue of believing in those claims, you think non-Catholics are in error. There is no way around this.

What you are really saying is, “why do some people see the world differently than I do?”

Well, they do, and you will have to get used to it.

Obviously these “refutations” that you think are so convincing look rather different to non-Catholics.

Edwin
 
All this toing and frowing, I am a catholic and yes I don’t admit much to knowing alot about theology, but what I was taught as a child was this, if you are a Catholic , be a good Catholic If you are a Buddist , be a good Buddist etc, once you start believing you are above another, you are below them. End of story
 
saint_lynda said:
All this toing and frowing, I am a catholic and yes I don’t admit much to knowing alot about theology, but what I was taught as a child was this, if you are a Catholic , be a good Catholic If you are a Buddist , be a good Buddist etc, once you start believing you are above another, you are below them. End of story
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A problem.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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Mannyfit75 said:
Why do most Non-Catholic Christians always claim that the Catholic Church makes error when it does not? While we Catholics don’t openly attack their own faith, but they do.

Catholics here and Catholic Apologetics have refuted any error they claim through the use of Scripture, ECF writings, and tradition. Yet they still insist we do. It’s like they are blind nor hard of hearing.

Most of the ones I know who claim this are completely ignorant of the Catholic Church and many of them completely misunderstood the CC’s doctrines and practices.

I do know there are Non-Catholic Christians who are open minded and don’t go around telling Catholics, “That is a bread you are worshipping… You are breaking God’s Commandment.”

For once I want to them to be open minded and understand our faith rather than attack us.
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As for many of them, I do agree that they do not understand what they believe they disagree with. For the more mainline Protestants, their refutatons include the primacy of Rome, Apostolic Succession arguments and practices and doctrine of the Catholic church that they claim are not Scriptural. On these counts, I believe that the debate may be on.
 
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