Why do old people talk so much before Mass?

[PaulWeb]

I attend Sunday Mass at a nearby monastery where there is perpetual adoration by the nuns. So the Blessed Sacrament is exposed until 5 minutes before the beginning of Mass. The church is always silent before Mass. After Mass there is some talking, but mostly outside of church.

God love all the people who are lonely and need to connect to others. But there are so few places that are truly silent in this world…

 

[turtle18]

“Be still and know that I am God!” You can’t be still if your mouth is moving.
These people aren’t saying hello or greeting each other–they are having full blown conversations about THEIR lives.

 

[rwoehmke]

Thank you Annie and Cat.

To those of you who complain about the speck in your brother’s eye and ignore the log in your own, I say . . . keep trying.

The elderly share several characteristics, some already mentioned.

1.They are often hard of hearing: they whisper loudly.
2. They often live alone or are, otherwise, lonely and are, therefore, happy to see you - even if you are not happy to see them.
3. They are often poor, and are not afforded many opportunities to socialize.
4. Their friends are dying off so they know fewer people with whom to socialize.
5. They are often unable to drive so their world is greatly restricted or isolated.
6. They ALL live lives of pain (body, mind, and soul), the legacy of aging.
7. They are often dependent on others - and they know it - and that hurts.
8. They are often abandoned by their children.
9. They often live with the memories of all of the things they used to do and enjoy but can no longer do and enjoy.
10. The older they get, they become more vulnerable and suffer more abuse by a society that views them as a burden, by family that views them as a drain on resources, and by good Catholics, who are preceded by their own lack of understanding, compassion, and charity.

One final observation that I think is worthwhile contemplating: whatever we do to these aged folks, who are some of the least of our brothers and sisters, we do to Jesus.

If it matters, I am 65.

May God Bless

Monk

I am 73 and can relate to most of this list. Not all of us are blest with healthy, hardy, socially rewarding older age.

We do not have a tabernacle in the main church, so after Mass ends. it does get a bit noisy. Just maybe people feel happy in Jesus’ home. I think it is wonderful because many of these families have two wage earners and the opportunity to socialize with other Catholics gets pretty limited. If the Blessed Sacrament were there in a tabernacle, I would not feel quite so benign, but on the other hand It just might please him to no end.

On another note about Catholics at Mass. Many years ago when my oldest was seven we went to Midnight Mass. We had taught him that Christmas was the celebration of Jesus’ birth. We got there, sat in our pews and after a few moments he whispered to his mother, " If we are celebrating Jesus’ birthday why isn’t anyone smiling?"

 

[annh]

Wonderful previous note! I just keep thinking about the apostles and how they didn’t even understand how it must have sounded to him when they were arguing over who was greatest. I guess it’s okay to be human around him. I just think as long as people aren’t gossiping or spreading rumors, Jesus is going to understand. He will love the greeters for their friendliness, for their long lives spent coming to church; He’ll love the quiet one praying for their respect and veneration of Him. I expect what he wouldn’t like is a heart fuming, for any reason.

I always think of St. Faustyna. She was kneeling there with Jesus’ little hand on her shoulder, and still the other nuns really criticized her. They may be talking, but can you read their hearts?

I don’t know. I guess I kinda like it. It’s fellowship-ish, even if I don’t do it. I don’t like teenagers texting, but they’ll come around. Life has a way of doing that.

 

[harleymonk]

A Sufi master took a group of pupils into the mountains for a week-long retreat and time for recollection. Upon arriving at the site, he told the pupils to quietly explore the beauty and peace of the area.

After a short period of time, all of the pupils came running to the master, who was sitting in quiet repose.
“Master, master,” they exclaimed, “there are whirling dervishes all over this place.”
“Oh my yes,” said the master, “they’re everywhere aren’t they.”
“Well . . . what do you do about them?” asked the distraught pupils.
“What do I do? Why I just let them whirl.”

Whatever else they are, many hold that the Sufis are the penultimate psychologists. One frequently relied on device is to ask pupils to interpret a parable, such as the one, above. Based on the interpretation, the masters discern the level or degree of enlightenment of each pupil.

To those of you who are averse to learning from other than “official” Catholic masters, let me call to your minds the episode in Bethany, where Jesus stopped on his way to Jerusalem. You know the scene: pots and pans banging - a great deal of commotion - and there’s Mary quietly sitting at Jesus’ feet, you know, choosing the better part - in spite of all of the noise.

There are two interpretations of what Mary’s better part was - and I think both apply to this thread.

1. Mary was being sympathetic to Jesus - who was on his way to Jerusalem to be crucified. She was likely aware that Jesus was troubled and simply wanted to be there for him, in the same way we are there for a sick or dying friend or relative. There is nothing we can do to make things better but the simple fact of our presence is a source of consolation.
2. Mary gives us an example of contemplative prayer - the highest form of prayer. Those of us who pray contemplatively contend with the distractions within our minds, something Teresa of Avila struggled with for many years.

St Paul admonishes us to pray everywhere and at all times. As I read this thread, I cannot help but feel sad for those who are apparently unable to pray except in a vacuum wherein they are the only resident.

May God Bless.

Monk

 

[Cat]

A Sufi master took a group of pupils into the mountains for a week-long retreat and time for recollection. Upon arriving at the site, he told the pupils to quietly explore the beauty and peace of the area.

After a short period of time, all of the pupils came running to the master, who was sitting in quiet repose.
“Master, master,” they exclaimed, “there are whirling dervishes all over this place.”
“Oh my yes,” said the master, “they’re everywhere aren’t they.”
“Well . . . what do you do about them?” asked the distraught pupils.
“What do I do? Why I just let them whirl.”

Whatever else they are, many hold that the Sufis are the penultimate psychologists. One frequently relied on device is to ask pupils to interpret a parable, such as the one, above. Based on the interpretation, the masters discern the level or degree of enlightenment of each pupil.

To those of you who are averse to learning from other than “official” Catholic masters, let me call to your minds the episode in Bethany, where Jesus stopped on his way to Jerusalem. You know the scene: pots and pans banging - a great deal of commotion - and there’s Mary quietly sitting at Jesus’ feet, you know, choosing the better part - in spite of all of the noise.

There are two interpretations of what Mary’s better part was - and I think both apply to this thread.

1. Mary was being sympathetic to Jesus - who was on his way to Jerusalem to be crucified. She was likely aware that Jesus was troubled and simply wanted to be there for him, in the same way we are there for a sick or dying friend or relative. There is nothing we can do to make things better but the simple fact of our presence is a source of consolation.
2. Mary gives us an example of contemplative prayer - the highest form of prayer. Those of us who pray contemplatively contend with the distractions within our minds, something Teresa of Avila struggled with for many years.

St Paul admonishes us to pray everywhere and at all times. As I read this thread, I cannot help but feel sad for those who are apparently unable to pray except in a vacuum wherein they are the only resident.

May God Bless.

Monk

Harleymonk, thank you for your posts. I hope I understand what you’re saying. Is this correct?–ALL that we do should include Jesus. There should be no activity that we engage in that does not include Our Lord. If we are chatting with others, we are mindful of Him with us. If we are quiet, He is with us. If we are jogging or cooking or making love or changing a diaper or programming a computer or riding a horse–He is with us.

He doesn’t “go away” when we do something “human.”

We should seek out opportunities to be alone with Jesus and enjoy intimate times with Him, just as we seek opportunities to be alone with our human spouses and be intimate.

But in the presence of other human beings, it will be more difficult to be intimate with Jesus (just as it’s difficult to escape with our spouses when there are people about us). What we need to do is learn how to be intimate with Jesus within ourselves, so that our intimate times with Him do not depend on the presence or absence of other humans.

Am I understanding your posts? Or am I still missing something? Thanks.

Again, I am NOT advocating that we waltz into the sanctuary and begin networking with our buds! I absolutely do NOT do that, and the people in my parish do not do that! I was raised in a Baptist church, and we were taught from childhood that we need to be respectful when we are in God’s house. So old-time Protestants don’t do that either!

I am only saying that if someone DOES chat and gossip and talk loudly and chatter non-stop in the sanctuary, we should not allow it to ruin our fellowship with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Our blessed union with Jesus should NOT depend on how others act.

I’m also saying that rather than castigating people who don’t behave properly, or getting upset and bothered about them, instead we should pray for them, and allow the proper authority (the usher, the priest) to correct the behavior. (Unless, of course, we are the parents of children who are acting up–then we are the proper authorities and we should do our job to train our children in proper church etiquette).

And as others have said, we need to examine our own hearts and make sure that we are showing respect and love for Jesus and trust that the Holy Spirit, perhaps through the words of the usher or priest, will convict others of their sins.

 

[fix]

I’m of the opinion that EVERYONE regardless of age should be quiet in the sanctuary. For many of us, the time before and after Sunday Mass is the ONLY time we have to pray before the Blessed Sacrament. Is it really too much to ask of our fellow Catholics to take their conversations about last night’s football game, brunch after Mass and Grandma’s bowel issues to the vestibule, gathering space or fellowship hall?

Fair point. It seems common curtesy is no longer fashionable?

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitswimmer
I’m of the opinion that EVERYONE regardless of age should be quiet in the sanctuary. For many of us, the time before and after Sunday Mass is the ONLY time we have to pray before the Blessed Sacrament. Is it really too much to ask of our fellow Catholics to take their conversations about last night’s football game, brunch after Mass and Grandma’s bowel issues to the vestibule, gathering space or fellowship hall?

Fair point. It seems common curtesy is no longer fashionable?

---

It seems common curtesy went out— when the “Spirit of Vat II” came in. To bad— some continue to find ways of coming up with some type of excuse for turning a church into a “horizontal social hall”.

 

[Fitswimmer]

St Paul admonishes us to pray everywhere and at all times. As I read this thread, I cannot help but feel sad for those who are apparently unable to pray except in a vacuum wherein they are the only resident.

I do pray everywhere, but it is a special grace to me to be able to pray before the Blessed Sacrament. I feel sorry for anyone who cannot differentiate between praying anywhere and praying in the presence of our Lord.

I feel sad for anyone who feels that their conversation is so much more important than reverence for the Eucharist.

I feel sad for anyone who was not raised to understand the difference between being in the presence of Jesus is the Blessed Sacrament and being in the parish hall.

 

[fix]

---

It seems common curtesy went out— when the “Spirit of Vat II” came in. To bad— some continue to find ways of coming up with some type of excuse for turning a church into a “horizontal social hall”.

I am not surprised. Sad, but not surprised. I can see a quick word or a hello but why the need to have a non essential conversation when other folks want the time to pray and prepare for mass?

Even in a library people still understand the need for silence. Where is our respect for others?

 

[harleymonk]

Cat, I dare say that you say what you say because God has revealed it to you and has given you the wisdom to understand it!

Scriptures teaches that Jesus is everywhere and in everyone. (The theology of the Mystical Body of Christ elaborates on the theme) Without grading them, the sacraments are seven unique encounters with Christ. Mystics, like John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, uniquely experienced God through “ecstasies.” Other saints uniquely experienced God through locutions and visions. But God is omnipresent - and in a real and personal way!

On a spiritual path, one is ALWAYS either walking toward (with) God, or away (without) God. One is ALWAYS either praying (coming to know and developing a relationship with God) or not praying (ignoring God). Jesus healed on the sabbath: it’s the God thing to do - regardless of the rules or decorum!

Our lives should be ordered such that nothing disturbs our inner peace; nothing should ever consume our thoughts, words, and deeds such that we are oblivious to God’s presence. God is not only in a monastery but also on a Boston subway and at Mass. God is in the person of a tramp and a socialite; in a crying baby and in a doddering old man; in the fellow who’s head is on his chest while he works his beads, and in the aging woman who is telling the guy sitting nest to her that she received a phone call from her daughter yesterday.

God I love God: he’s everywhere and always presents me an opportunity to love him.

May God continue to bless you, Cat, and all of you.

Monk

 

[benedictgal]

Cat, I dare say that you say what you say because God has revealed it to you and has given you the wisdom to understand it!

Scriptures teaches that Jesus is everywhere and in everyone. (The theology of the Mystical Body of Christ elaborates on the theme) Without grading them, the sacraments are seven unique encounters with Christ. Mystics, like John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, uniquely experienced God through “ecstasies.” Other saints uniquely experienced God through locutions and visions. But God is omnipresent - and in a real and personal way!

On a spiritual path, one is ALWAYS either walking toward (with) God, or away (without) God. One is ALWAYS either praying (coming to know and developing a relationship with God) or not praying (ignoring God). Jesus healed on the sabbath: it’s the God thing to do - regardless of the rules or decorum!

Our lives should be ordered such that nothing disturbs our inner peace; nothing should ever consume our thoughts, words, and deeds such that we are oblivious to God’s presence. God is not only in a monastery but also on a Boston subway and at Mass. God is in the person of a tramp and a socialite; in a crying baby and in a doddering old man; in the fellow who’s head is on his chest while he works his beads, and in the aging woman who is telling the guy sitting nest to her that she received a phone call from her daughter yesterday.

God I love God: he’s everywhere and always presents me an opportunity to love him.

May God continue to bless you, Cat, and all of you.

Monk

While you do make some interesting statements, the tone of your posts sounds as though you are dismissing the Real Presence, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

Yes, God is omnipresent. I am not denying that, nor is anyone else on this thread. Nor am I challenging your references to the Carmelite saints. However, it is clear Catholic dogma and doctrine, and, liturigcal theology that the Real Presence exists and manifests itself in the Sacred Host. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila received their strength from the Blessed Sacrament. When Jesus said that he would be with us always, he meant that His presence would remain with us in the Blessed Sacrament. To merely discount reduces Jesus’ presence in the Tabernacle to merely symbolic.

When we enter church, we are not there for the purpose of socializing. We are entering into the Divine presence of Jesus Christ. The same Jesus who was incarnate in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, born in Bethlehem, who healed the sick, who forgave sins, who taught us the importance of worship and who shed his Blood on the Cross and rose again, is present in the Tabernacle. To have trivial discussions such as last night’s football game or particular physical ailments one is experiencing that day are pale in comparison to the conversation that we should be having with God.

 

[TOMFULLREE]

I have read through this thread. It seems that the posters are split into two mutually exclusive camps which doubt each other’s good intentions. I really do not think that someone is either attempting to be willfully disrespectful in church or alternatively, cold and legalistic.

So, that begs a question to me—what is the solution?

 

[fix]

I have read through this thread. It seems that the posters are split into two mutually exclusive camps which doubt each other’s good intentions. I really do not think that someone is either attempting to be willfully disrespectful in church or alternatively, cold and legalistic.

So, that begs a question to me—what is the solution?

Is it not obvious? We all should try to be quiet out of respect for God and our neighbor.

Imagine some poor soul who just lost their child, or someone desperate to find a job, or someone praying for a spouse near death why must they be denied some little quiet in their time of need while praying in Church?

 

[ricmat]

Imagine some poor soul who just lost their child, or someone desperate to find a job, or someone praying for a spouse near death why must they be denied some little quiet in their time of need while praying in Church?

Must they be denied some moment of human consolation from the body of Christ, if that is what they need?

 

[fix]

Must they be denied some moment of human consolation from the body of Christ, if that is what they need?

Of course not. Why must such consolation include depriving others of silence?

 

[ricmat]

Of course not. Why must such consolation include depriving others of silence?

Everybody has numerous daily occasions for silence. Some have only a few opportunities to interact with friends or somebody who will listen.

Maybe I’m jaded because at our church, we have a continual flow of people in and out (a Mass every 1.5 hours). And no vestibule or church hall, or even space outside the church for social activities. And you need to leave ASAP so the next group can find parking space. And before the first Mass there’s a rosary going on.

In this environment, for someone to demand that others be silent so that he can pursue his own personal prayer routine seems a bit selfish.

Perhaps your parish is different.

 

[fix]

Everybody has numerous daily occasions for silence. Some have only a few opportunities to interact with friends or somebody who will listen.

How frequently do folks have to pray before the blessed Sacrament each day? These people are going to Church for a reason.

In this environment, for someone to demand that others be silent so that he can pursue his own personal prayer routine seems a bit selfish.

What is selfish is to speak like one is in a cafeteria while others want to pray in Church. That should be self evident.

Is it really a burden to observe some sense of quiet in Church?

 

[TOMFULLREE]

As I read the most recent posts, I wonder—why does it need to be an either/or proposition? While I personally find all the chatter in church aggravating, have to believe there is a compromise or some sort of other way to work around this situation. I wish I had an answer or a plan. Neither glowering at people for chatting nor suggesting that others need to grow a heart is solving the problem.

 

[catharina]

Today’s my 62nd birthday and it surely makes me feel sad to read this thread today. As for the older folks who do their visiting before Mass, I have to suggest (as others did) that these few moments might be their only time for a small social exchange within the week. Certainly, they’re not partying in the aisles, are they? Many of these folks are dependent on others to get them to and from the Church. Is there a gathering that would welcome them before Mass? Would they be accomodated by their drivers if they wished to join a gathering after Mass? Do parishes take a stand in making such solitaries feel welcome at the one time they will be in church, that is, for Sunday Mass? Don’t the very elderly always deserve special consideration from everyone? It’s likely the case that until you become one you can’t understand their issues.

As for having one’s prayers interrupted … each of us is to carry a prayerful spirit, a sense of recollection with us at all times. It still surprises me when someone complains about disruptions and tiny distractions that they might encounter at Mass. Can’t we do a better job of controlling ourselves? Or are we ok with being “highly irritated” people at all times, to a point of diminished returns? If others are bothering you, why not pray for them? That might be the change that God expects of you for that Mass.