Why do old people talk so much before Mass?

[fix]

This forum seems full of uncharitable people who don’t respect their elders and are intolerant, all in the name of Jesus Christ, who told us to forgive others as we would want to be forgiven. This thread is a sad reflection on our faith.

What? I cannot see how you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[fix]

Well, it’s certainly made me feel sad. I’ve worked with mentally ill children and psychiatrically impaired elderly for more than forty years and all I can say about the negativity in this thread is: So Sad.

What is meant by negativity?

 

[catharina]

What is meant by negativity?

Linking disruptive behavior in Church to the elderly is quite negative, IMO. A little understanding goes a long way. If anyone is disturbing to another in Church, I suggest the disturbed one pray for any who disturb him/her. He/she might also pray to grow in patience.

 

[jrnami]

Well, it’s certainly made me feel sad. I’ve worked with mentally ill children and psychiatrically impaired elderly for more than forty years and all I can say about the negativity in this thread is: So Sad.

Thank you! I also work with many elderly and I think they are disparaged and disrespected in our society. Maybe they should consign chatty elderly people to special sound proof ‘cry rooms’ if they misbehave!

 

[fix]

Linking disruptive behavior in Church to the elderly is quite negative, IMO.

I agree a single age group is not the issue.

A little understanding goes a long way. If anyone is disturbing to another in Church, I suggest the disturbed one pray for any who disturb him/her. He/she might also pray to grow in patience.

Sure, that is not unreasonable. I think my position is that in many places there has developed a “culture” that is disrepectful in terms of quiet in Church. This culture seems to think their desire to socialize is superior to the person/s who wish to pray to God in Church. This is a rather simple issue. It is not about loud coughing, or some minor annoyance that we should offer up. I think it is about the idea we are free to engage in light chatter no matter who else is disturbs. Again, it is Christian to be concerned for others.

 

[jrnami]

Linking disruptive behavior in Church to the elderly is quite negative, IMO. A little understanding goes a long way. If anyone is disturbing to another in Church, I suggest the disturbed one pray for any who disturb him/her. He/she might also pray to grow in patience.

Exactly! Or wear earplugs! I wear earplugs or an mp3 player when I want quiet!

 

[fix]

Exactly! Or wear earplugs! I wear earplugs or an mp3 player when I want quiet!

We have to wear earplugs or listen to music while we pray in Church now?

 

[jrnami]

We have to wear earplugs or listen to music while we pray in Church now?

I don’t have to because I’m not highly irritated by chatty elderly people. My suggestion is that those who ARE annoyed should wear earplugs. I use an mp3 player, for example, when I go shopping because I find intercom announcements and music annoying in some stores.

 

[Emma_Grace]

Our parish is “fairly” quiet before Mass but after Mass is a different story. The priest barely makes it up the aisle before the conversations begin. I can’t figure out why they seem to understand that reverence is called for before Mass starts but isn’t at the end. And, it is usually the older people. Since I’m getting up there, I use “older” because they are older than me. No one is old any more.

I like to kneel and pray after Mass for a little while and I’ve learned to block out just about everything so I don’t mind the talking as much as I used to. But, when one is standing in the pew in front of me and the other is in the pew behind me and they are literally standing there talking over my head, then I do have a problem. And, this has happened several times with different people. Better yet was the time I was on my knees praying with my eyes closed and one of the two speaking in front of me called me by name and tried to start a conversation with me! My mother taught me to be polite so there I am kneeling answering this guy’s questions. I did stick to the shortest (and quietest) answers possible and kept nodding towards my folded hands and the tabernacle in front of us. He eventually got the message. Really, I think he just couldn’t hear me and gave up.

I think for many people, when the priest says “the Mass has ended, go now in peace”, and he is up the aisle, it’s over. I was taught that the end of Mass was about showing reverence for the Tabernacle and respect for the priest. So, once the priest has exited and you have genuflected, you head out and chat outside. I too had an issue with people staying and chatting in the pews. I have found that if I move from my regular seat to the front one or two pews, most people have left and it is relatively quiet. The added benefit is that I feel physicially closer to The Lord when I am close to the Crucifix and the Tabernacle on the alter.

To the young man who is bothered by the “old people”,
I hope everyone leaves Mass feeling God’s grace and the peace He gives us. I would be sad to think that some leave feeling annoyed, angry or bitter. If you are going to judge others and be intolerant and leave in a bad mood, you might as well stay home!

 

[Apryl]

We have to wear earplugs or listen to music while we pray in Church now?

That is pretty bad!

and I bought earplugs so that I could pray before mass - to drown out the sounds.

Personally, I think that if I’m bothered by the noise, others are, too. It is better in the long run to say to Miss Suzie, “We’re praying. Could you please keep your voice down”. Now, if Miss Suzie decides to keep chattering, well, that’s a new issue. But it’s very likely that she didn’t even realize how much she was disturbing things. Now, she can know, and others don’t have to be disturbed, and we can all concentrate on what we are there for.

 

[jrnami]

To me, hearing two elderly friends talking is music to my ears. I find it the sign of joy and fellowship. I’m happy that they are there in the church and healthy and glad to see one another. I love it that they are still interested and engaged in life.

 

[fix]

That is pretty bad!

and I bought earplugs so that I could pray before mass - to drown out the sounds.

Personally, I think that if I’m bothered by the noise, others are, too. It is better in the long run to say to Miss Suzie, “We’re praying. Could you please keep your voice down”. Now, if Miss Suzie decides to keep chattering, well, that’s a new issue. But it’s very likely that she didn’t even realize how much she was disturbing things. Now, she can know, and others don’t have to be disturbed, and we can all concentrate on what we are there for.

It should be an issue for the pastor to address if it continues to be a general problem.

I agree though most people are considerate and would not want to continue to disturb.

 

[fix]

To me, hearing two elderly friends talking is music to my ears. I find it the sign of joy and fellowship. I’m happy that they are there in the church and healthy and glad to see one another. I love it that they are still interested and engaged in life.

Few would say two folks greeting is a problem. What I find appalling, frankly, is this idea socializing takes precedence over someone praying in Church.

 

[benedictgal]

To me, hearing two elderly friends talking is music to my ears. I find it the sign of joy and fellowship. I’m happy that they are there in the church and healthy and glad to see one another. I love it that they are still interested and engaged in life.

But, to do so in church shows a lack of respect for the Blessed Sacrament. No one here is against the elderly. My father, as an EMHC, visits the elderly and homebound in the parish. Often, he is the only visitor they will ever get. The sadder reality is that his pastor has not even gone to hear these folks’ confessions and quite a few have already died. Now, that is something serious. That is an even greater lack of charity to these folks then gently telling them to keep quiet. Hopefully, though, this situation should be resolved soon, but, back to the oringinal subject at hand.

What several of us are commenting about, and I believe that there are some of you who have missed the point entirely, is that when we enter church, we are in God’s presence, and in God’s time. We enter the SACRED. We are in church precisely because we seek an enounter with God. Trivial conversations, whether it’s between two elderly women or two teenagers or whoever, should not be occuring inside sacred space.

We must maintain silence in the courtroom. We must maintain silence in libraries (as someone pointed out in this thread). We must maintain silence during theatrical performances and in movie theaters, even to the point of having a reminder flashing on the screen to turn off mobile phones. In church, we are in the presence of Someone greater than a judge, more profound than a book and are preparing to be a part of the greatest event in our salvation history.

Interestingly enough, I read some blogs posted during the time of the viewing of Pope John Paul’s body. Many reporters were amazed that amidst the sea of humanity flowing in and out of St. Peter’s Basilica, you could hear a pin drop. Prince Charles made that same observation as he rode in the motorcade that carried Princess Diana’s body through the streets of Paris. “The busiest city in the world and it fell silent as we drove through its streets,” he said. “Cafes and shops were quiet. You could hear a pin drop. And, this was Paris!”

If people who barely knew our beloved deceased Pope and a very popular princess could remain silent in their presence (at least, when standing in front of or near their bodies), what is so wrong about asking that silence be maintained when we come before the Real Presence of Jesus?

 

[ricmat]

Of course, it is always possible to set up a straw man argument - old people screaming at the top of their lungs about BM problems or whatever. Of course we all object to that.

Everybody agrees (I think) that church is a sacred place, God is present in the tabernacle, and we should show proper respect from our hearts.

Although the OP mentioned only old people talking too loudly, several other similar issues have come up which in my mind fit into the category of “dual use” of the church building.

I’m curious what people think about the following (real situations, not straw man issues) in our church:

rant on:

1. During the only confessions time each week, a divine mercy chaplet with loud music, loudspeakers, huge picture placed on the altar with flashing neon lights (ok- I’m exaggerating the flashing part). Should I be thinking "My personal, private silent examination of conscience should take precedence over your public, noisy, and very distracting chaplet?
2. Before one Sunday mass there is a rosary for life. Should I be thinking that this very public, noisy, distracting rosary for life interferes with my absolute right to a private conversation with the Lord in his house in preparation for mass?
3. Before all Sunday masses - choir practice (with the congregation). Should I tell the choir director that she’s interfering with my private, personal, right to pray in silence?
4. Sunday masses again - announcements. Should these announcements made over the PA system be stopped so as not to interfere with my personal, private, right to silent prayer?
5. Weekday masses are usually good except for the old folks who whisper (or try to) about hubby’s heart attack and can you keep praying for him, etc…but on Wednesday’s, there’s a children’s mass for the Catholic school. Should the kids practicing their music, readings, psalm responses, and prayer intentions stop doing it out of respect for my absolute right to pray in silence?
6. During weekday masses, there is a deaf-mute man, who often makes very loud noises perhaps trying to do his best with regard to praising the Lord, or perhaps they’re just random noises that he’s not even trying to make. Should he be banned from church on the basis that it interferes with my personal, private, right to silent prayer?
7. Sunday masses - as soon as the priest leaves the altar, a horde of people waiting for the next mass rush in so they can get a seat. Should I tell them to wait outside because they’re interfering with my own private, personal, silent prayer?

My answers are no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.

The reason I’m posting this is that is appears that some people seem to think that their particular right supersedes whatever else may be happening and answer yes to the above. "Stop all that noise, I’m trying to be holy here, and I’ve got presence of the Holy Eucharist to back up my side of the issue!

rant off:

PS - our church is being used (it seems) by multiple parties 24 hours a day. So “tell them to reschedule” isn’t an option.

 

[fix]

1. During the only confessions time each week, a divine mercy chaplet with loud music, loudspeakers, huge picture placed on the altar with flashing neon lights (ok- I’m exaggerating the flashing part). Should I be thinking "My personal, private silent examination of conscience should take precedence over your public, noisy, and very distracting chaplet?

This is a Church service, right? It may not be mass but it is a legitimate service. How is this analogous to socializing outside of the mass in Church while folks are praying and collecting before mass?

1. Before one Sunday mass there is a rosary for life. Should I be thinking that this very public, noisy, distracting rosary for life interferes with my absolute right to a private conversation with the Lord in his house in preparation for mass?

See above.

1. Before all Sunday masses - choir practice (with the congregation). Should I tell the choir director that she’s interfering with my private, personal, right to pray in silence?

see above.

1. Sunday masses again - announcements. Should these announcements made over the PA system be stopped so as not to interfere with my personal, private, right to silent prayer?

See above

1. Weekday masses are usually good except for the old folks who whisper (or try to) about hubby’s heart attack and can you keep praying for him, etc…but on Wednesday’s, there’s a children’s mass for the Catholic school. Should the kids practicing their music, readings, psalm responses, and prayer intentions stop doing it out of respect for my absolute right to pray in silence?

See above and a quick whisper is not the same as prolonged chatter.

1. During weekday masses, there is a deaf-mute man, who often makes very loud noises perhaps trying to do his best with regard to praising the Lord, or perhaps they’re just random noises that he’s not even trying to make. Should he be banned from church on the basis that it interferes with my personal, private, right to silent prayer?

Again, I think you know this is a separate issue.

1. Sunday masses - as soon as the priest leaves the altar, a horde of people waiting for the next mass rush in so they can get a seat. Should I tell them to wait outside because they’re interfering with my own private, personal, silent prayer?

Could they be responsible and act with respect for others or is that too taxing?

The reason I’m posting this is that is appears that some people seem to think that their particular right supersedes whatever else may be happening and answer yes to the above. "Stop all that noise, I’m trying to be holy here, and I’ve got presence of the Holy Eucharist to back up my side of the issue!

Sorry, but you have it exactly backward. Some think their “right” to chatter is superior to others praying in CHURCH. Not in a yard, not in a coffeehouse, not in a ballpark, but Church.

Is it really a burden to be considerate to others? Have we come to a point where we must haggle over how much banal chatter is acceptable while some folks wish to pray? Does it have to be a contest?

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, it is very distracting to review the hymns, unless the parish is springing something entirely new to the faithful. As far as announcements are concerned, these may be made after the post-Communion prayer.

Silence is something that the Holy Father said that we need to recapture. I am reminded of that beautiful reading where Elijah is told by God to wait for Him as He would pass by the prophet. Elijah hears a loud wind, but God is not in the wind. He sees a bright, brilliant fire. But, God is not in the fire. Suddenly, the prophet hears a small, whispering sound. He covers his head. It was God.

That is what we need to recapture.

 

[ricmat]

This is a Church service, right? It may not be mass but it is a legitimate service. How is this analogous to socializing outside of the mass in Church while folks are praying and collecting before mass?

See above.

see above.

See above

See above and a quick whisper is not the same as prolonged chatter.

Again, I think you know this is a separate issue.

Could they be responsible and act with respect for others or is that too taxing?

Sorry, but you have it exactly backward. Some think their “right” to chatter is superior to others praying in CHURCH. Not in a yard, not in a coffeehouse, not in a ballpark, but Church.

Is it really a burden to be considerate to others? Have we come to a point where we must haggle over how much banal chatter is acceptable while some folks wish to pray? Does it have to be a contest?

I agree that idle chatter is not reverential.

So how would you answer those questions? Just out of curiosity.

My point was that there are many distractions in church. My right to do “what I need to do” does not override other’s rights to “do what they need to do.”

If you want a church which has nothing going on before & after Mass, I just don’t think you’re going to find one. Except perhaps at a monastery.

 

[catharina]

There has been a lot of talk on the forums about children/babies making too much noise during Mass. But what about all the old people who think Church is social hour? I go to several different churches and the old folks regularly talk up until Mass starts. They have no respect for people trying to pray silently and seems they are being irreverant.

A small reminder, the above was the original post.

These folks who object to the presence and behavior of the elderly and who react as if you have the right to judge them, please think again. To judge others as irreverant? Get a grip. PLEASE.

 

[ricmat]

Actually, it is very distracting to review the hymns, unless the parish is springing something entirely new to the faithful. As far as announcements are concerned, these may be made after the post-Communion prayer.

Silence is something that the Holy Father said that we need to recapture. I am reminded of that beautiful reading where Elijah is told by God to wait for Him as He would pass by the prophet. Elijah hears a loud wind, but God is not in the wind. He sees a bright, brilliant fire. But, God is not in the fire. Suddenly, the prophet hears a small, whispering sound. He covers his head. It was God.

That is what we need to recapture.

Our priest (or perhaps our bishop) has decided that announcements will be made before Mass starts, probably so as not to disrupt or distract the people engaged in finishing the actual Mass

I agree, silence is good. It can be found in many places. To demand that it be just before or just after Mass is likely to result in much frustration for reasons having nothing to do with reverence.