Why do people leave the Church?

[Sheep4sale]

You better have a relationship with Jesus Christ otherwise you will hear him say “ be gone for I do not know you”.

 

[MNathaniel]

Everyone has a different reason. If you have relatives who have left, you will need to ask each one of them what their reason is, if you want to know them.

Note: Don’t jump down this rabbit hole if you suspect you may be weak in your faith or unfamiliar with arguments people make against it, and vulnerable to being misled by whatever misled your relatives. If you do go asking your relatives for their reasons, make sure it’s with the intention of remembering their problems, and then going and finding the Catholic answers to whatever challenges they faced – whether for their own edification if they’re open to it, or at least for your own strengthening, lest in swimming near a drowning person, you get pulled under yourself.

“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” This is exactly the scenario to keep this word in mind. We can all mean well – but remember, God is the one who has the answers for our relatives. We, individually, might be just as vulnerable to the enemy’s attacks and lies as our relatives were. We need to make sure we are strengthened by God first (put the oxygen mask on ourselves first) before assuming we can walk up to loved ones, ask them why they reject our faith, then not be shaken by their answers.

 

[Sheep4sale]

It’s my understanding that there are church teachings that you don’t have to believe but there are church teachings that you must believe. The essentials and the nonessentials.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

I’ve seen first-hand why people leave. As a sole-custody single father to four beautiful children, I can assure you that the willingness of parishioners to ‘accept’ our family unit is meek, at best.

Never-mind that a decree of nullity was issued and nothing inappropriate or scandalous is in play. I mean, God forbid if I actually tried to flirt with a single woman.

There’s not always a lot of room in the inn for people who don’t precisely conform to what’s perceived to be right.

 

[adf417]

I am trying to understand this, perhaps my reading ability is weak in my old age. You reject a fact? It is a fact that two Faith’s correct interpret the bible, yet are inconsistent with each other?

Please clarify.

Yeah bad wording!

I reject the idea that other faiths that interpret the bible correctly interpret it inconsistently with other faiths that also interpret the bible correctly.

Better???

 

[maryjk]

What exactly did she do that she needed to repent?

Had life saving surgery?

Listened to her doctor about her health, rather than this priest?

 

[goout]

Firstly: I am asking questions so that I understand the basic assumptions that inform your beliefs.

You believe that the Catholic Church is full of sinners and that sinful behavior has scandalized other Christians.
I agree with that.
You seem to agree that we are also called to live in community by Christ, cooperating with each other under Christ. Agreed.
How about this: Is the community that Christ established really visible and instituted?
Where do you see it? Is it specific and unique, or a loosely connected spiritualized community?
I think we have different viewpoints here.

How do your observations that Catholics are rank sinners disprove the reality of a true Church? You might not like all those failings you listed, and neither do I. But given your belief that we are all sinners, how do you make the leap that sin disproves the Church?

 

[KBS]

I left the church for many “little reasons” - (well, truthfully, some of them were not little, but I probably would still be active in my parish if any combination of them had not happened.)

That was my mom. See she had a hysterectomy without church permission.
…
He told her that her job was to have babies. And having a hysterectomy without permission was going to send her to hell.

I was not aware that a hysterectomy was considered a sin if it was not approved by a priest.
It’s stuff like this that ultimately drives people away. (I would have left at precisely that point if I were her too.)

I understand the sanctity of life - but I do not believe that any priest should feel justified applying this type of condemnation onto any person. That priest objectified maryjk’s mom, proclaiming that her job was to produce children. Most likely, there were serious medical reasons indicating such a drastic procedure - hysterectomies are not done to sterilize a woman. Yes, sterilization happens too, but there is always another medically indicated reason.

I know, priests are people too - they make human mistakes - and the mistakes of one do not always reflect the true teachings of the church … but sometimes it seems that our priests do not understand that their heavy handed words can truly damage a person who might already be in a fragile state.

—————

I devote a part of every day to prayer. I try to live as Jesus wishes for me to live. I raised my children to believe that they were loved by God and would always be lovingly enveloped in the Holy Spirit, regardless of their mistakes. I was raised in the Catholic Church and could not imagine not sharing those beliefs with my family.

Unfortunately, some of those teachings, were not followed by members of the Catholic community, causing irreparable damage to people I know and love, (by priests & parishioners alike) - and I can no longer bring myself to support an institution that has empowered some with the perceived ability to condemn others. Only God knows what is in each of our hearts and it is so sad when the institution grows away from being controlled by the true spirit of its intention. I think this has happened to the institution of the church.

I have not been to church for many years - but I feel a Holy Presence in my life despite that decision to leave. It inspires me to try to live in service to God. And guess what? That Holy Presence is stronger in my daily life than it ever has been.

I miss the church. I miss the sense of community, the comforting ritual of mass and the sacraments. I don’t miss the hypocrisy, the heavy-handedness and rejection of others, (who may be struggling with their own demons.) On paper, these are not the teachings of the church and everything that I have written can be countered with arguments of why I am wrong.

But actions do speak louder than words. And a thousand little actions do have the power to erode faith in an institution.

My faith has not been eroded - but my faith in the institution has.

 

[goout]

Let me ask it this way:
You and I are sinners, correct?
I don’t know your sins and that’s irrelevant. Whatever they are, you have them. You are also a follower of Christ.

If I use your line of thinking, why should anyone who knows that you are a sinner come to Christ? Why should they give your belief in Christ a fair hearing?
You might say they will come to know Christ in their own personal way, but we all come to know Christ through others, right?

Why should your sin disprove your relationship and your faith in Christ? This “taint of sin” disqualification that you are using makes any spread of the gospel an impossibility.

 

[undead_rat]

Thanks for your considered reply. This is not a Shroud thread, so, if you would like to discuss this important subject further, please initiate a relevant thread. (I don’t seem to be able to so. Perhaps the mods have disabled me.)
I will say that you are right about certain noted scientists and theologians refusing to authenticate the Shroud, and this problem is something that can be illuminated.

 

[LovelyLadybug]

“Although non Catholics can go to heaven, being Catholic helps” . Being Methodist also helps, right? Bring faithful also helps right.

That depends on what your other religious option would be. It’s better to be a Methodist than a Hindu or a Buddhist, but it’s better to be Catholic than Methodist. Jesus himself founded The Catholic Church. It is the only religion that can trace it’s roots back to Christ himself. All the protestant denominations (Including the Methodist Church) were founded by some person who thought they knew better than God. You can’t just invent a religion. That’s God’s job. Whose relgion will you follow? A person’s or God’s? I hope this helps!!! God bless!!!

 

[Jimbo]

Holy Cats!

As to talking down to someone, I’m not in the position to do that to anyone. Doesn’t mean I don’t do it sometimes, but I try not to. Worst case I’m hoping we can just agree to disagree.

I think you may find the apostacy that wasn’t interesting. He covers the council of Nicea pretty thoroughly; both the run up and in the aftermath.

One of the things he mentions is that yes, the Emperor was involved… but Athanasius won the console basically through argument. Arianism was condemned. And for the next 30 odd years or so the world turned Arian and Athanasius had to go into exile. So much for political influence. ;-). He covers it much better than I can though, give it a read if you are interested in the council and alot of the surrounding history.

https://www.amazon.com/Apostasy-Tha...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451663238626&psc=1

I don’t mean to blow you off; I will try to address the rest later. But it may be a couple of days. I hope that is okay!

 

[Limoncello4021]

To answer the OP’s question, I would say in my world the vast majority of my friends grew up in some kind of Christian family (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc) but no longer practice any religion because they simply see no need for it. I’ve had this conversation many times. They feel they are “good” people, not sinners, they live comfortable mid to upper class lives, they are educated, and they have no sense of needing to be “saved.” Saved from what? said a friend of mine and was sincere in her question. Hence, no real need for Jesus. Hence, too, little to no expectation of heaven or hell: to my shock a close friend of mine revealed recently that she simply plans to commit suicide if her health starts to fail in old age. They comfortably buy into all the things this easy culture gives them, and are amply rewarded for doing so. And I’d also quickly add that most of these people are indeed good people in that they are into social justice issues du jour: clean environment, sustainability, food shelves, adequate housing for low-income folk, etc. I admire them for commitment to good causes, but am always puzzled by why God gave me the gift of faith and not such others. God knows, I have a deep sense, and always have, of badly needing salvation.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

vast majority of my friends grew up in some kind of Christian family (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc) but no longer practice any religion because they simply see no need for it.

This is plus flavors of no longer believing the claims are probably the main reasons for leaving most denominations.

 

[Jimbo]

My assertion was about unified belief, not that a particular belief existed early on. Putting aside the fact that many of these beliefs were and are open to interpretation we can see that even at the Jerusalem council there was disagreement and confusion. Yes there was a conclusion reached but remember this is very early on in the church.

I’m back! Sorry for the delay.

One thing I’m wondering is why is this an issue? I don’t mean to be flippant (honest). I guess that to me it isn’t shocking that the Church Christ founded had multiple ideas: From those who felt Christians had to adhere to the law, to those who weren’t solid on exactly how the divine nature of Christ coexisted, if at all, with the human nature.

I guess to me that’s normal; Christ created his Church and gave it the authority to make the calls, and the Holy Spirit to guide those calls.

Are you saying that in order to believe in the Church you would want to see all those things settled right from the get go?

I suspect that not all in attendance agreed with the decision but it would have been much easier and more straight forward to reach a consensus than as we see in later councils.

I’m sure that’s true. Yet, they did submit for the most part.

And as for the supremacy of Peter…he wasn’t to my knowledge in charge of this first council nor did he make the final decision which you would think would have been most important in order to establish a clear leadership in the supremacy sense.

I guess I disagree. Councils have their own authority when convoked properly. That’s all part of the magisterium.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some argue convincingly that Paul invented Christianity.

“Convincingly” is a matter of opinion.

 

[goout]

LovelyLadybug:

You can’t just invent a religion.

Some argue convincingly that Paul invented Christianity. Jesus was a Jew,

So was Paul. And just about every other early follower of “The Way”.

 

[Francisco_Fernando]

People don’t know that it’s a mortal sin to leave the Church.

 

[goout]

People don’t know that it’s a mortal sin to leave the Church.

Grave matter-yes
Full knowledge-depends
Deliberate consent-depends
All three required for mortal sin

 

[Dan_Defender]

Some argue convincingly that Paul invented Christianity.

Those who argue that St Paul invented Christianity have their roots in the mid-18th century and the influential Tübingen School of historical criticism. The idea that it took over 1700 for this supposed invention to come to light is ludicrous.