Why do people leave the Faith. What are we doing wrong?

[po18guy]

It depends on why they leave. Many currently say they leave because the Church will not change her teachings, that they are too hard to accept. Others leave because they believe it wrong to say that there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, that this is too provincial or whatever. Some even leave because they don’t believe God exists. There is nothing we can do about that, as it has been happening since the beginning:

*Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.

And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.” As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.*John 6:60-66

Some say they leave because the bishops betrayed so many in how they handled priests who were suspected sexual abusers, bishops and others in the Church who chose to keep shocking offenses hushed up and trusted these priests when they said they would repent and never offend again.

Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
John 6:67-69

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me, because I live and you will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him." John 14:15-21

We live in a worldly time, when the Gospel and the Apostolic teachings are openly rejected and mocked. We do need to avoid giving scandal by claiming to live the Gospel when we are in fact doing no such thing. If we are rejected for living and defending the truth, however, we ought to expect that we will still experience rejection. The question is not whether we will be rejected or whether some who have had the faith will leave it. The question is whether they left because of scandal we gave. Besides, people can come and they can stay under false pretenses and stick around because we aren’t really preaching the true faith, too. It is not whether people come and go, then, but whether or not we are living the truth and speaking the truth that we have to examine ourselves about.

This.

If Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, could attract, but not retain followers, how can we expect mere men and women to do better?

Those who leave the Church are simply exercising their free will. They do so poorly, but they are exercising it.

 

[robwar]

My guess is that we are not living our Faith as Jesus has instructed us too. Paul also teaches us how we should be living our lives as faithful, loving Christians. Unfortunately, are witnessing may be poor. How can we improve ourselves as a living, loving Church?

people leave the faith for as many reasons as there are people on the planet. You need to stop the assumption that people leave because of the issues you are stating. If you think there are needed changes, become the change yourself. Change begins with you.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

This is true a lot of the time. However, there is also the scenario where they marry outside of the faith and due to poor Catechesis feel that all brands of Christianity are created equal. I have definitely met ex-Catholics who left the faith for another Christian church who do not have the personality flaws you describe. We do need to be careful of sweeping generalizations.

It has to be asked why the Western industrialized world has lost the faith. That’s not the case in the East and Africa… Even the places where people suffer severely or even worry that a bomb will be set off during a Mass on Sunday, these areas of the world have very strong faith and are very devout.

[BIBLEDRB]john 1:1[/BIBLEDRB]

This is about our culture and the society that has been lead to believe atheism could somehow fill the void left between religion and the once faithful. This is not, I repeat not about the Catholic Church. If it was, then it would only be the Catholic Church losing members, and not other Christian protestant denominations, or even non Christian religions for that matter.

From Catholics specifically I’ve spoken to, these were some common reasons they fell away:

• They still believe in God, but they believe they can just worship him without the Church
• As long as they’re good people, that’s all that will matter to God
• Church teachings and beliefs are obsolete, they’ve chosen modernism and progressiveism
• They believe fulfilment comes only from what they can see and feel.

What I’ve experienced being around those who lost faith is also something in common:

• They’re often judgemental
• Somewhat arrogant(have to be if you’re the center of the universe and not God
• They’re impatient
• They need to show others they’re happy( Think facebook timelines and status’ folks )
• They’re not tolerant(though this is their montra) . We know who they believe is intolerant right?
• They run for the hills when you talk about anything related to God and faith
• They’re sports junkies
• They’re kids have 4 legs

At some point, I don’t care if you have wealth, fortune, status, personal satisfaction in what you’ve accomplished in life, you will be humbled by something greater than yourself. You will hear your conscience ask questions the world will not be able to answer, you will be with 10 of your closest friends and still wonder why you’re lonely. Things will come and go, people, places, possessions, all things material.

When that happens(and it will), return to that Catholic Church you once entrusted your soul. Take a deep breath and remember the smell of the wooden pews. The pews where you yourself once knelt before God with the humility that you just surrendered to the world. At the end of the day, only your faith will endure. Lessons learned prodigal son.

 

[sailor28]

My guess is that we are not living our Faith as Jesus has instructed us too. Paul also teaches us how we should be living our lives as faithful, loving Christians. Unfortunately, are witnessing may be poor. How can we improve ourselves as a living, loving Church?

You hit the nail on the head in your first thoughts. Then it seems most proceded to take it in a different direction. One that eliminates us changing the way we are and the way we approach people.

In July, I participated in a thread here entitled, “what are some of the main reasons people are attracted to the protestant faith” in the non-Catholic religions forum. Despite numerous warnings about lack of charity the thread was finally closed due to it “going downhill with charity and mature interaction”

It was ironic because the only answer some could give was, “they are poorly catechized” Yet, those same people contributed to the thread being closed down. Something is amiss there. When we are well catechized we have love in all things.

If people at CAF engage people in their live the way they engage them here, then it is no wonder why people leave and don’t see the presence of Jesus in the Catholic Church. (**note I am not referring to everyone here, only a pattern of dialogue that I see is common enough here that it warrants attention) It does as least contribute. Even though there are numerous reasons people leave.

Here is what we should model:

Love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited,
it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances.
Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth.
It is always ready to make allowances, to trust, to hope and to endure whatever comes.
Love never comes to an end. But if there are prophecies, they will be done away with; if tongues, they will fall silent; and if knowledge, it will be done away with.
For we know only imperfectly, and we prophesy imperfectly;
but once perfection comes, all imperfect things will be done away with.
When I was a child, I used to talk like a child, and see things as a child does, and think like a child; but now that I have become an adult, I have finished with all childish ways.
Now we see only reflections in a mirror, mere riddles, but then we shall be seeing face to face. Now I can know only imperfectly; but then I shall know just as fully as I am myself known.
As it is, these remain: faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love.

I have a friend who left, in part, because her kids were sexually abused. She found the institutional sin unconscionable. In addition, some people leave because they read and study the catechism and come to different conclusions.

However, despite people leaving the church, I see incredible sacrifice and virtue in those that I know. They did not look for any easy way out or all the other phrases of weakness attributed to them in this thread. They humble me many times with the love and commitment they have to God.

The bottom line we need to ask ourselves is: Am I modeling the compassion, mercy, kindness, love, forgiveness, humility and character of Jesus Christ. I could be very well versed in the catechism but if I don’t have love, it does not mean much.

So yes, here is to my ongoing conversion!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

One of the biggest problems isn’t just poor catechesis, but over 40 years of poor catechesis. I have a friend who, after 12 years of Catholic elementary and high school, received a Theology degree from a Catholic university. You never know what type of church you’ll find him in on Sundays because he was taught that as long as he’s at a church on Sunday, he’s fulfilling his obligation. I have a fallen away friend who cites Catholic hypocrisy as the main reason he left. He feels it’s hypocritical to teach that any and all drinking and gambling are mortal sins but then have bingo, Oktoberfests and fish fries as some of the biggest fundraisers. He won’t listen to any contrary statements because some nun back in high school taught him this and he knows it’s a fact! I have another friend who hasn’t set foot in a confessional in years (or a church outside of Christmas, funerals and sacraments in just as long) because he’s never killed anyone and has never had a long-term affair (adultery, he’ll explain, is a persistent, ongoing affair, so one night stands and random hookups in a bar or strip club parking lots aren’t adultery). I have an aunt who is a lifelong, faithful Catholic who received the bulk of her Catholic education post-Vatican II. She took a catechism refresher course at her church several months ago and had a massive crisis of her faith because she never knew the Church really teaches the things she learned in that class. (She didn’t leave the Church, by the way, but it took a lot of anguish and long talks with priests and faithful Catholics to convince her.) The bulk of the people I know who left the Church, especially those who left for another denomination, did so because of their own faulty understanding of what the Church is.

At the same time, I know almost as many who left all because of their own self-centered cult of personality. They are god. In their world, the earth doesn’t revolve around the sun; the sun, the moon, the stars and everything else revolves around them. They have most or all of the characteristics paulxrp listed. They want what they want, and they want it ten minutes ago. They don’t believe in rules or moral absolutes, unless it’s their own rules and morals and then anyone who doesn’t bow down and worship them deserves to be annihilated, or at least driven into poverty and prevented from ever working or having a public voice again. Some of them still support their parish out of some sort of cultural obligation, but they frequently spew hate-speech about the Church and refuse to listen to facts that counter their claims. They’re virtually impossible to talk to about anything but the shallowest of topics so all you can really do is pray for them.

 

[paulrxp]

This is true a lot of the time. However, there is also the scenario where they marry outside of the faith and due to poor Catechesis feel that all brands of Christianity are created equal. I have definitely met ex-Catholics who left the faith for another Christian church who do not have the personality flaws you describe. We do need to be careful of sweeping generalizations.

Marrying outside the faith has caused it with some I’ve known, particular with relatives not just friends… Certainly poor catechesis has had a lot more to do with why they’ve fallen away. Someone who is poorly catechized will almost always question the teachings of the faith.

My neighbour is a perfect example. He was baptized a Catholic, went to Catholic schools. Somehow, someway, he had no idea what the Eucharist was, whether there was a Real Presence. He asked me why we worshipped statues, on and on and on, ad infinitum That’s right before the Pentecostal church bus arrives to pick him up. Fortunately I started to ask him to ask his pastor why they were teaching him Jesus was not God. I gave him a list of questions to ask(like a cheat sheet) along with Bible verses to counter everything this church was trying to teach him. Many of which was directed against Catholic belief. I let my neighbor speak, and I just listened without interrupting to better understand his mindset. After he finished, I only asked him one question: * How is it you seem to understand and believe everything about the Catholic Church that someone else teaches you who was never a Catholic(your pastor), yet here I am telling you exactly what we Catholics believe and you either reject it, or don’t want to understand it?*
To make a long story short, he left that church 2 weeks ago. Now his pastor constantly calls , reminds him that not paying his tithes is sinful and that he’s going to hell One Sunday I will take him to my parishes adult education program. Perhaps I can make up for my own sins by leading a soul back that may have been lost. All good deeds are accounted for, just as much as the bad ones.

[BIBLEDRB]john 1:1[/BIBLEDRB]

Everything I wrote about in my prev post was in general terms and personal experiences. If we or the Church could p(name removed by moderator)oint with precision what the cause was for loss of faith, it would be a very simple problem to solve… Identifying the problem is a lot more of a challenge. Also, even if the problem was identified, we or the Church may not have the means to just remove it from harming the faithful. Media would be one example, the secular education system another. We who know the faith have to be at the front lines of evangelizing. That’s what the Holy Fathers have called for, not just to evangelize non-Catholics, but especially evangelize the Catholics who have fallen away .

There are just too many variables and circumstances involved with something like faith that has to start with the individual. The Church was left by our Lord to teach and guide your soul so that you have a chance at everlasting salvation, you as a member of the Body must seek and understand all its truths, with faith, reason, and prayer.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

One priest I know says very often it’s simply because people want to sin. I’m not so sure he’s mistaken on this point.

I often hear from many of my ex-Catholic or non-practicing Catholic friends who say the Church has “Too many rules.”

Now I interpret this as one of two ways: Either they earnestly believe that there are so many complicated (and sometimes contradictory) rules that they throw up their hands in exasperation and say “I can’t understand all of this!” and leave the Church. These folks might be extended the benefit of the doubt if they genuinely become disillusioned.

The other camp simply doesn’t like the rules and figures by leaving the Church they are somehow no longer bound by said rules, which in fact is not the case. Those are the ones who probably need our prayers the most.

My :twocents:

 

[robwar]

You hit the nail on the head in your first thoughts. Then it seems most proceded to take it in a different direction. One that eliminates us changing the way we are and the way we approach people.

In July, I participated in a thread here entitled, “what are some of the main reasons people are attracted to the protestant faith” in the non-Catholic religions forum. Despite numerous warnings about lack of charity the thread was finally closed due to it “going downhill with charity and mature interaction”

It was ironic because the only answer some could give was, “they are poorly catechized” Yet, those same people contributed to the thread being closed down. Something is amiss there. When we are well catechized we have love in all things.

If people at CAF engage people in their live the way they engage them here, then it is no wonder why people leave and don’t see the presence of Jesus in the Catholic Church. (**note I am not referring to everyone here, only a pattern of dialogue that I see is common enough here that it warrants attention) It does as least contribute. Even though there are numerous reasons people leave.

Here is what we should model:

Love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited,
it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances.
Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth.
It is always ready to make allowances, to trust, to hope and to endure whatever comes.
Love never comes to an end. But if there are prophecies, they will be done away with; if tongues, they will fall silent; and if knowledge, it will be done away with.
For we know only imperfectly, and we prophesy imperfectly;
but once perfection comes, all imperfect things will be done away with.
When I was a child, I used to talk like a child, and see things as a child does, and think like a child; but now that I have become an adult, I have finished with all childish ways.
Now we see only reflections in a mirror, mere riddles, but then we shall be seeing face to face. Now I can know only imperfectly; but then I shall know just as fully as I am myself known.
As it is, these remain: faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love.

I have a friend who left, in part, because her kids were sexually abused. She found the institutional sin unconscionable. In addition, some people leave because they read and study the catechism and come to different conclusions.

However, despite people leaving the church, I see incredible sacrifice and virtue in those that I know. They did not look for any easy way out or all the other phrases of weakness attributed to them in this thread. They humble me many times with the love and commitment they have to God.

The bottom line we need to ask ourselves is: Am I modeling the compassion, mercy, kindness, love, forgiveness, humility and character of Jesus Christ. I could be very well versed in the catechism but if I don’t have love, it does not mean much.

So yes, here is to my ongoing conversion!

Yes, it is more than being poorly catechized. Sometimes people have some sort of crisis in their lives and faith and at least in some Protestant Churches, there is better outreach to those that are hurting for whatever reason. Protestant Churches often come across as more friendlier and approachable. Many Catholic Churches now have greeters at the door to say hello to people coming in. This sort of step is in the right direction yet I’ve seen these sorts of efforts bashed on this site as being too frivolous and “protestant”. Too often there is a mentality out there of “Mass is about me and Jesus and don’t touch, look or bother me because I’m here at Mass for me and Jesus”. However Mass is a community experience and the social interaction should be taken place either afterwards or even before is many times missing. Likewise while one want to blame weak Catholic instruction from the Church, too often that kind of day to day in home instruction was totally missing from the home. The home is where the first catechizes should be taking place. When ones hear the stories of people going through 12 years of Catholic Schools and coming out not really knowing anything, I think part of that was what really happen in the home life instead of the school life. If the parents just sent there kids off to Catholic schools and then assumed that they would “get” their Catholic faith there is a bad assumption and actually is abandonment of the parent’s responsibility to teach their own children their faith.

 

[believer691]

I will conclude by telling you: keep My Holy Rules and abstain from the things the world is offering you; do not give the Enemy a chance; do not feed yourselves on things that are not holy, this is My second warning; the first was spoken through the mouth of she who writes down My Love Hymn. True Life In God (TLIG.ORG)

 

[theCrow]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

 

[believer691]

hear Me, My beloved; Scripture says: “the language of My Cross may be illogical to those who are not on the way to salvation, but those of you who are on the way see it as God’s power to save” 1 and it is this Language I am coming to teach you, it is this Language of Love you will hear in My school; and you, you who are willing to learn, be blessed, be strong and happy; though obstacles are bound to come, do not fear, rely on Me; but alas for the one who provides them, he shall have to answer Me in the Day of Judgement! True Life In God (TLIG.ORG)

 

[DeniseNY]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

Some reflection on #1 might be a good idea on your part. From your time on this board have you gained no perspective on why Catholics who adhere to and promote the Catholic faith are exhibiting the ultimate in love and compassion?

 

[robwar]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

I am not sure what your point is. Doesn’t 2 apply to all Christian where they are Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox? So what parts of the Bible don’t you want people to take so literally in your “opinion”? Maybe point 3 is your opinion but it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Love and truth go hand in hand. Having discussion about difference of opinion and ideas is what this forum generally is about. I suppose those that would disagree is your so called “points” are going to be considered by you as “judgmental” which is your way of shutting down the conversation not encouraging it. Again about your last point, the last I checked is that under Sharia Islamic law, homosexuality is punishable by stoning and death. That doesn’t sound to me very loving and compassionate. Love without truth is just sloppy agape anything goes religion according to feel good fluff. Love and truth are two sides of the same coin. God is all love and all truth.

 

[EasterJoy]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

Forgive me in advance, because I think you’re going to take this as negative. It can’t be helped.

Infallibility, as it is truly taught by the Church, is not negotiable. Belief in Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, as the entirely necessary and sole Savior of humankind is not negotiable. Nothing whatsoever in the Nicene Creed or the Apostle’s Creed is negotiable–not now, and not ever.

You are suggesting that what we are doing wrong is to actually treat dogma as dogma. We are certainly doing some things poorly, but refusing to concede the faith handed down by the Apostles in order to appease opinions that are opposed to it, that is not one of them. We must never do that, and we must certainly not do it out of some misguided attempt to be “compassionate” or “tolerant.”

Love is not love without the truth.

 

[paulrxp]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

With regards to #1 and #4 I suggest you log onto a Yahoo discussion thread after any Catholic or faith based news article You’ll not only witness for yourself what being judgemental , negative and intolerant is all about outside Catholic circles, you’ll get a glimpse of Hell on Earth and what eternal damnation may be like Also, pay close attention to how other Christians attack the Catholic Church it’s very telling.

#2 Our protestant friends think we’re not literal enough

#3 Either you believe the Pope with the Magesterium is guided by the Holy Spirit when it teaches on faith and morals, or it is not guided by the Holy Spirit and that God can err No one claims the Pope is impeccable, does not sin, or cannot make mistakes. The Pope is bounded by the teachings of Christ. Sacred Tradition also insures the Pope is bound by the authoritative teachings of interpretation of his predecessors and by Apostolic succession. The Church is the sole authority in interpretation because it was the Church that received the mandate from Christ himself. If you can cite an infallible teaching that has contradicted itself , changed and erred , I’m open to reason and examination. Catholics are not afraid of Truth.

 

[Kal2012]

1. Poor Catechesis so unable to defend faith against those who claim you aren’t Christian
2. Can’t do a mixed marriage (so chooses spouse’s church instead)
3. Just wants his or her own rules (like those who said people left due to teachings on premarital sex and contraception)

Yep and pop culture is very anti-Christian/Catholic.

I also agree with the poster who said “intolerance”. The thing is that we get caught up in pointing out people’s sins that we forget to accept them where they are and show mercy.

If you as a non-church person have rejected the church, then trying to use church language to communicate with them sometimes does more harm than good. They simply aren’t on our wavelength. A lot of people these days have no connection to the church except for what they see in the media (which isn’t good) about faithful religious people.

The problem is also a conflicting message. Sometimes, we do the opposite. We show mercy so much that we don’t point out that people are living a sinful life.

Some Christians get so concerned about the “hippy-dippy” parts of the faith that they forget that Jesus was given up as a sacrifice for our sinful natures and that our sins can only be redeemed through Christ. (ex/You can have a gay marriage and Jesus will still love you and you don’t have to change your behavior. Well…partially true, Jesus loves gay people as much as everyone else, but living the gay lifestyle is still a sin. Gay marriage is not a Sacramental marriage. We are warned in the Bible about having gay relationships. People simply aren’t being given the whole story a lot of the time by Christians themselves.).

The point is the CCC is consistent, but the people aren’t. People want to pick and choose what parts of the gospel they want to focus on.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I think there are a lot of reasons people leave the Church. Among them:

1. People in our society don’t participate in group kinds of activities. People skip voting in record numbers and don’t volunteer or participate in service groups the way they once did. That same attitude carries over to churches (and not just the Catholic Church). I think in part that’s where the “spiritual but not religious” identifier comes from – I do it my own way but don’t participate with other people.
2. We offer little continuing formation for adults. We get kids to confirmation class until they’re 15 or 16 and then they’re done. But the level of understanding and knowledge that was fine at 16 doesn’t serve them when they’re 26 or 36 and facing issues related to marriage, family, career, and life decisions. They may write off the Church as irrelevant because it doesn’t address what they need as they mature. We need to continue to engage people to deepen their faith and knowledge but how many parishes offer good programs aimed at adults?

And while this is probably not the main reason people leave, sometimes the people in the Church don’t help things. Once I was extremely discouraged when my mother was in the hospital after an accident with surgery scheduled for the next day. She wanted to be anointed and I went to the parish that served that hospital. When I asked if a priest could come to the hospital I was asked if she was dying. I said “I hope not! But she is elderly and having surgery tomorrow.” The response was that maybe a priest could come by in a few days. I felt like the Church had abandoned both her and me at our time of need. If I had been a fence-sitting Catholic that probably would have been enough for me to leave. Absolutely no sense of caring or compassion at a time when it was greatly needed.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

What are we doing wrong:

1. Being way too judgemental, intolerant of other opinions, and Negative.
2. Taking all of the bible Literally.
3. Refusing to even consider the remote possibility that the Church/Pope could
   actually be wrong about some teachings. (Infallibility)
4. again #1. Instead of Love and Compassion, I see constant negativity on these boards, Heaven forbid (no pun intended) if you are a gay Muslim Obama supporter.

#1 We’re all sinners, but that’s not the religion.

#2 That’s not usually something Catholics are accused of. It’s more of a Protestant problem. There are certain non-negotiable things that are sins.

#3 Well, that’s what it means to embrace a religion. You get this sort of thing in every religion.

#4 I’ll give you this board can get nasty a at times, but it’s certain individuals, not everybody. This does not mean that they don’t have valid points. Certain lifestyle choices do not mesh with Catholicism and we don’t have to say things are okay for the sake of political correctness.

 

[tafan]

Its not what we are doing wrong, its what we did wrong (ok, its still happening, but…). People leave the faith because they were never properly catechized. We have now had more than one generation grow up with very poor instruction in the faith.
Someone grows up and only gets taught very,very little about the faith, they grow up and are presented with seemingly valid arguments from other faiths/ideologies, and a common result will be that they leave. Especially when the other faiths are presented with such simple requirements: eg accept Jesus Christ as your savior and your finished.

 

[WilT]

very good and positive responses from many people. Thank you. I agree with many of you.