Why do people leave the Faith. What are we doing wrong?

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To Simplify:

What we are doing wrong:
  1. Not respecting/tolerating or even trying to understand other people’s beliefs/religions or for not having those same beliefs.
To expound: Many, Many human beings of all and no faith obviously think masturbation, using birth control, and Gay Marriage are totally cool, totally ok. Obviously many, many Christians/Catholics disagree vehemently (understatement of the year)

I think it is cool to believe anything you wish, as long as you peacefully let others believe what they want to. But when one of those sides calls the aforementioned things abominations towards Gods, mortal sins, and then tries to LEGISLATE or impose those things or force those beliefs on others, well, you will have many people, usually young people, leave the faith in droves. Just an observation and a logical way of thinking.
 
theCrow said:
I think it is cool to believe anything you wish, as long as you peacefully let others believe what they want to.
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You may believe that, as you are free to do, but that belief is not consistent with Church teaching.
 
theCrow said:
To Simplify:

What we are doing wrong:
  1. Not respecting/tolerating or even trying to understand other people’s beliefs/religions or for not having those same beliefs.
    …
I think it is cool to believe anything you wish, as long as you peacefully let others believe what they want to. But when one of those sides calls the aforementioned things abominations towards Gods, mortal sins, and then tries to LEGISLATE or impose those things or force those beliefs on others, well, you will have many people, usually young people, leave the faith in droves. Just an observation and a logical way of thinking.
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Here’s a more logical approach and a better one because is applies wisdom as well:

*“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.” * - Vererable Fulton J Sheen
 
paulrxp said:
Here’s a more logical approach and a better one because is applies wisdom as well:

“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.” - Vererable Fulton J Sheen
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The big difference here is that not everyone believes in the same TRUTH, and many don’t see SSM, masturbation or birth control as EVIL. Therefore, it is even more logical to tolerate and dare I say respect their opinion, rather than condemn/judge them. Logic!
 
theCrow said:
The big difference here is that not everyone believes in the same TRUTH, and many don’t see SSM, masturbation or birth control as EVIL. Therefore, it is even more logical to tolerate and dare I say respect their opinion, rather than condemn/judge them. Logic!
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At last! YES:thumbsup:

God bless you.
 
theCrow said:
The big difference here is that not everyone believes in the same TRUTH, and many don’t see SSM, masturbation or birth control as EVIL. Therefore, it is even more logical to tolerate and dare I say respect their opinion, rather than condemn/judge them. Logic!
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Do you think that whether or not smoking increases the risk for cancer depends on whether or not someone believes that it does? Do you think if a cancer patient continues to smoke, you ought to tolerate their opinion in the sense of saying, “Well, maybe you are right. Maybe smoking is not harmful and has nothing to do with lung cancer”?

Tolerance does mean refraining from judging whether someone is truly culpable for what they do. It does not mean acting as if you don’t know the truth when you do, in order to avoid ruffling the feathers of those you love. Sometimes, love means speaking an uncomfortable truth, just on the chance that the person may turn from their denial and act on it.
 
theCrow said:
The big difference here is that not everyone believes in the same TRUTH, and many don’t see SSM, masturbation or birth control as EVIL. Therefore, it is even more logical to tolerate and dare I say respect their opinion, rather than condemn/judge them. Logic!
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The quote by Bishop Sheen completely flew right over your head mr bird… Tolerance does not apply to Truth or principles. If the basis of what you’re trying to arrive at is tolerance, trying to disprove the Churches moral teachings and beliefs does not arrive at either proving the Church is intolerant, or that your view of tolerance and morality is any more true than ours. That is why tolerance has nothing to do with truth, not in the argument you’re trying to weave.

Furthermore, disagreeing with someone based on your moral beliefs does not mean you do not respect their opinion. Don’t automatically assume or portray someone as judgemental because they don’t conform to your moral standard, that’s hypocritical because that’s what you’re accusing us of doing. Don’t judge our morality and we won’t judge yours. Believe what you want, and save tolerance for another argument.
 
The pope talked about this awhile ago. He said that the Church focuses on too much on what they don’t accept and not enough on accepting.
 
I don’t know any of you personally, so allow me this caveat: when I use the word “you” here, I don’t mean it in any personal way whatsoever.

Perhaps you might get better information to answer the original question if you ask and actually listen to the answers you get from ex-Catholics, rather than on a focussed forum like Catholic Answers?

People leave their religions for all kinds of reasons, some better and more justifiable than others. But framing the question in terms of ‘what can we do to bring them back’ is already the wrong approach, it smacks of minimising tactics, manipulation, and lack of caring for your fellow humans. You might have better luck just asking an ex-Catholic and actually listening (without running through apologetics waiting for your turn to talk again, without feeling a need to somehow counter a possible objection) to what they say.

To me that (waiting to talk again instead of listening) is a huge problem in our increasingly polarizing-on-every-possible-issue culture. Correcting that issue should benefit everyone, or at least those of us who care about looking at things honestly.
 
Hello… let me provide you with my story about why people live. It has nothing to do with the “sex rules” or with the secular culture. It is all about personal experience.

Let me give you an example of why I let. First, here is the background. I was part of a large Irish family. My father was an altar boy and my grandma invited priests over. Both my father and mother were uber involved with the Church growing up. My mother headed the CCD program and my father was chief lector and involved in the archdiocese.

I obviously went to Catholic schools. It was a disaster. I was a shy introvert and was bullied throughout grade school. Nothing was done to end the harassment. In fact, the teachers tended to cater to the bullies. The bullies were all in good Catholic families. (The main bully when I was in kindergarten was the daughter of the parish “queen bee” who had six kids.) Nothing was done to stop the harassment.

The school had lots of priests and nuns and was fairly traditional. I thought that the nuns and priests were scary and avoided them at all costs. None of them were sweet and fun like Bing Crosby. They were as big on the bullying as the children were. Despite my parents’ commitment to the parish, it was only the families with lots of money who counted.

In addition, my mother is a very assertive woman, the original mama bear, and she doesn’t like it when her cub is bullied. She also isn’t afraid of queen bees. The “adult mean girl’s” club tried to sideline her but she is the last person who would lay down. Of course, that meant lots of bullying and harassment for the family. None of the “popular girls” even joined Girl Scouts because my mom was the group leader. They tried to make everyone’s life miserable.

For me the harassment got worse and worse. The bullies made a point to make my life miserable. They spread rumors about me and made sure that I had no friends. One consolation was that there was no facebook in the early 1990s for them to use. When I was in sixth grade I ended up in the hospital with a nervous breakdown. I also have ongoing eating disorder as a teen. I just got so tired of being harassed.

I spent two years in public school after that incident. I ended up back at Catholic school for high school because of the academics but I was miserable. There were still bullies. The rich and the connected got special treatment.

So yes, I have issues with the Catholic Church. I stopped going to Church regularly when I was twelve after being brutally harassed. The Catholic Church made it pretty clear that I was “trash” to them and if the little brats wanted to severely bully me for their amusement, that was just fine as long as the $$$ came in. Why should I go to a place like that. And please don’ t scream “Vatican II” and “proper catechesis” and “Latin Mass” because what I am talking about has absolutely nothing to do with that fight. Please just stop that. The main issue is people failing to live up to the Golden Rule.

I’m not sure why I should remain with the Church. You guys made it clear during my childhood that I am “trash” to you. I’ve never heard anyone provide me with a warm and welcoming version of Catholicism or even apologize for the situation. They really don’t care about people at all. Again, why would I want to remain with people who treat me like trash?
 
sttcatherinefan said:
Hello… Nothing was done to stop the harassment. .

So yes, I have issues with the Catholic Church.

I’m not sure why I should remain with the Church. You guys made it clear during my childhood that I am “trash” to you. I’ve never heard anyone provide me with a warm and welcoming version of Catholicism or even apologize for the situation. They really don’t care about people at all. Again, why would I want to remain with people who treat me like trash?
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I’m sorry to hear about your story. As a child, yes that must had been a horrible experience to you. I understand your feelings for I today have a tendency to side with the underdog. Those that don’t have voices. I hope in your adult years your doing better. God Bless and Care for you.
 
All I can say is that I am a cradle Catholic raised by the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for 20 years. When I hear it is are responsibility to point out sinners and evangelize other to become Catholic to be saved I want to leave my faith. I have a great deal of respect for the other religions that knock on my door to evangelize and accept my answer that I am a committed Catholic, yet on this site many just don’t do that and then tell the people they are going to hell, like they know it for a fact. They speak as if they are God themselves, They use the Bible to judge others and it is huge turn off. Luckily I do work at a Jesuit school where we simple do not do that.
 
sttcatherinefan said:
So yes, I have issues with the Catholic Church. I stopped going to Church regularly when I was twelve after being brutally harassed. The Catholic Church made it pretty clear that I was “trash” to them and if the little brats wanted to severely bully me for their amusement, that was just fine as long as the $$$ came in. Why should I go to a place like that. And please don’ t scream “Vatican II” and “proper catechesis” and “Latin Mass” because what I am talking about has absolutely nothing to do with that fight. Please just stop that. The main issue is people failing to live up to the Golden Rule.
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To be fair, you don’t have issues with the Church, but instead have issues with a particular parish/school. I have friends who went through, or believe they went through experiences similar to yours. They’ll all tell you how much they hate the Church, but what they really hate are the people who they believe treated them wrong, many of whom had no connection to the church. I’m not saying this sort of behavior doesn’t go on in Catholic schools every single day–it absolutely does and we’ve dealt with more than our fair share–but it also goes on in public schools and private/parochial schools of all kinds. I have a friend whose kids’ public school is virtually run by a gang of students whose parents teach at the school. They all commit acts that would get other kids expelled instantly (and likely get the cops called), but the teachers band together and cover it up. I have another friend whose daughter’s non-Catholic school filed a restraining order against him for three years because she was being bullied and he yelled at the principal during a meeting. The point is, you’re going to run into that all over the place. It’s not the Church’s fault, though. If you’re able to, look for another parish. Sadly, I believe this sort of behavior goes on to some degree at most parishes so it takes a while to find one that’s truly open and supportive, but they are out there.
 
sttcatherinefan said:
Hello… let me provide you with my story about why people live. It has nothing to do with the “sex rules” or with the secular culture. It is all about personal experience.

Let me give you an example of why I let. First, here is the background. I was part of a large Irish family. My father was an altar boy and my grandma invited priests over. Both my father and mother were uber involved with the Church growing up. My mother headed the CCD program and my father was chief lector and involved in the archdiocese.

I obviously went to Catholic schools. It was a disaster. I was a shy introvert and was bullied throughout grade school. Nothing was done to end the harassment. In fact, the teachers tended to cater to the bullies. The bullies were all in good Catholic families. (The main bully when I was in kindergarten was the daughter of the parish “queen bee” who had six kids.) Nothing was done to stop the harassment.

The school had lots of priests and nuns and was fairly traditional. I thought that the nuns and priests were scary and avoided them at all costs. None of them were sweet and fun like Bing Crosby. They were as big on the bullying as the children were. Despite my parents’ commitment to the parish, it was only the families with lots of money who counted.

In addition, my mother is a very assertive woman, the original mama bear, and she doesn’t like it when her cub is bullied. She also isn’t afraid of queen bees. The “adult mean girl’s” club tried to sideline her but she is the last person who would lay down. Of course, that meant lots of bullying and harassment for the family. None of the “popular girls” even joined Girl Scouts because my mom was the group leader. They tried to make everyone’s life miserable.

For me the harassment got worse and worse. The bullies made a point to make my life miserable. They spread rumors about me and made sure that I had no friends. One consolation was that there was no facebook in the early 1990s for them to use. When I was in sixth grade I ended up in the hospital with a nervous breakdown. I also have ongoing eating disorder as a teen. I just got so tired of being harassed.

I spent two years in public school after that incident. I ended up back at Catholic school for high school because of the academics but I was miserable. There were still bullies. The rich and the connected got special treatment.

So yes, I have issues with the Catholic Church. I stopped going to Church regularly when I was twelve after being brutally harassed. The Catholic Church made it pretty clear that I was “trash” to them and if the little brats wanted to severely bully me for their amusement, that was just fine as long as the $$$ came in. Why should I go to a place like that. And please don’ t scream “Vatican II” and “proper catechesis” and “Latin Mass” because what I am talking about has absolutely nothing to do with that fight. Please just stop that. The main issue is people failing to live up to the Golden Rule.

I’m not sure why I should remain with the Church. You guys made it clear during my childhood that I am “trash” to you. I’ve never heard anyone provide me with a warm and welcoming version of Catholicism or even apologize for the situation. They really don’t care about people at all. Again, why would I want to remain with people who treat me like trash?
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That is awful. I wish I could say I’d never heard of anything like that happening, but I have. Luckily, the person I know who went through something like that went on to become a parochial school principal. I don’t think anything like that goes on in her school! :mad:

Yes, you bring up a big one. Bad experiences with cliques and politics and general, well, personally-dished-up torment in parishes and especially in parish and other Catholic schools is a reason some Catholics have not left the Church so much as having felt driven out. Covert aggression is virtually guaranteed whenever a group doesn’t allow overt aggression. Some of the violence is eliminated, but some of it always goes underground. It isn’t that the bullying happens–I’ve never heard a victim of this blame the Church that there are bullies in the pews or in the school rooms. It is that it happens, but when it is found out nothing is done about it.

I’m glad your mom stuck up for you. I don’t think her willingness to do that brought on any of this, in the sense that it was her fault. It just showed that the kids who were bullying came by their bad behavior honestly. I can’t tell you how sorry I am that you ever had to go through that.

This is a problem that the laity can keep a watch out for, when they serve on the parish school board. Sometimes that is hard, because the “powerful” families try to make sure that they “serve” in all the decision-making spots, but with a strong pastor it does not have to be that way.
 
shelby_sun said:
All I can say is that I am a cradle Catholic raised by the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for 20 years. When I hear it is are responsibility to point out sinners and evangelize other to become Catholic to be saved I want to leave my faith. I have a great deal of respect for the other religions that knock on my door to evangelize and accept my answer that I am a committed Catholic, yet on this site many just don’t do that and then tell the people they are going to hell, like they know it for a fact. They speak as if they are God themselves, They use the Bible to judge others and it is huge turn off. Luckily I do work at a Jesuit school where we simple do not do that.
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You are actually tempted to apostasy because some Catholics are ham-handed at evangelization?

Do you really mean that? :confused:
 
shelby_sun said:
All I can say is that I am a cradle Catholic raised by the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for 20 years. When I hear it is are responsibility to point out sinners and evangelize other to become Catholic to be saved I want to leave my faith. I have a great deal of respect for the other religions that knock on my door to evangelize and accept my answer that I am a committed Catholic, yet on this site many just don’t do that and then tell the people they are going to hell, like they know it for a fact. They speak as if they are God themselves, They use the Bible to judge others and it is huge turn off. Luckily I do work at a Jesuit school where we simple do not do that.
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what in the world are you talking about? Where on this site are there people telling others they are going to hell? Seriously, this is a rather false characterization of others on this forum and those sorts of things are against forum rules. It seems like on this thread those that are accusing others of being judgmental need to look in the mirror at themselves.
 
EasterJoy said:
Do you think that whether or not smoking increases the risk for cancer depends on whether or not someone believes that it does? Do you think if a cancer patient continues to smoke, you ought to tolerate their opinion in the sense of saying, “Well, maybe you are right. Maybe smoking is not harmful and has nothing to do with lung cancer”?

Tolerance does mean refraining from judging whether someone is truly culpable for what they do. It does not mean acting as if you don’t know the truth when you do, in order to avoid ruffling the feathers of those you love. Sometimes, love means speaking an uncomfortable truth, just on the chance that the person may turn from their denial and act on it.
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You just proved my point of why people are leaving the faith with that response. Can you even possibly consider that other people don’t think Gay Marriage and Masturbation are wrong and a sin? By equating and comparing them to smoking, you lose all credibility and thus are not tolerating or respecting their opinion at all. In fact, you have already judged their opinion to be WRONG and yours to be the TRUTH.
 
shelby_sun said:
All I can say is that I am a cradle Catholic raised by the Jesuits and have worked at a Jesuit school for 20 years. When I hear it is are responsibility to point out sinners and evangelize other to become Catholic to be saved I want to leave my faith. I have a great deal of respect for the other religions that knock on my door to evangelize and accept my answer that I am a committed Catholic, yet on this site many just don’t do that and then tell the people they are going to hell, like they know it for a fact. They speak as if they are God themselves, They use the Bible to judge others and it is huge turn off. Luckily I do work at a Jesuit school where we simple do not do that.
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Same answer Easter Joy gave. Why and what are you saying, and what are you really committed to? Someone who knocks on your door and tells you to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ. You have respect for that, but yet no respect for the Catholic that tells you Jesus is the way , the Truth and the life?

You’re a committed Catholic, but if a Catholic speaks that the Church is the only way to salvation you’re ready to jump ship? You respect other religions for what tolerance? Go read the Talmud or the Koran, then come back and tell us how those faiths respect Christians and infidels.

“Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism *, he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine *, he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3–4:1 [A.D. 110]). St Ignatius of Antioch

Walked , talked and broke bread with one of Jesus’ apostles.
Did St Ignatius sound like he was being God? Is he too intolerant for you? He got ripped to shreds by lions for stating what some of us Catholics believe today. The foundations of Catholic faith today are built on on mud instead of what it has always been, ,a rock.**
 
theCrow said:
You just proved my point of why people are leaving the faith with that response. Can you even possibly consider that other people don’t think Gay Marriage and Masturbation are wrong and a sin? By equating and comparing them to smoking, you lose all credibility and thus are not tolerating or respecting their opinion at all. In fact, you have already judged their opinion to be WRONG and yours to be the TRUTH.
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None of your points were proven true , nada, zilch. Every illogical argument you’'ve made has this form.

If you do not agree with my understanding of morality, you are either judgemental, intolerant , wrong, uncharitable or untruthful

Yes I can consider other people believe homosexual behavior is not wrong.
Yes I can consider other people believe masturbation is not wrong.

You can list whatever type of behavior or act you like. Can you equally consider other people do not conform to your same morals? IF so , then the argument would end right there. This proof of yours that people are leaving the faith for this rationale of being intolerant to sin is beyond absurd.
You’re trying to bend, twist and shape people who have a contrasting view of morality, like a child shapes play-doh
 
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