Why do Protestant Apologists feel the need to lie about history and the Catholic Church?

[po18guy]

And abortion, artifical birth control, ethunisa(sp) etc.

Goth_Catholic,

Where do you think those ideas came from, Heaven??? No, they came from this sinful, fallen world, which hates life and so, seeks to destroy it. And who is the king of this world? Hint: Check Job 1:1

 

[po18guy]

LOL…Now I am a “splitter!” I have been called quite a list of things on this forum; but that is one of the more unique ones.

As far as I can see; there are lots of claims in Catholic literature to being “the true Church” “the Church founded by God;” etc. but there is very little solid evidence to back up it’s claim. I have seen nothing believable yet to convince me. Catholics tend to quote Catholic Church fathers; but this list of “early Church Fathers” is different than the Bible’s list.

Don’t accuse yourself, as I am not accusing you. My statement relates to the historical egos of those who “split” the church. What the One Church founded by Christ needed was a reformation. What it got was 29,000+ bickering denominations. Some unity, huh? Any wonder that evil, in the unified body of Satan, triumphs in this world?

Unity in Christ through obedience.

 

[Protestant101]

Don’t accuse yourself, as I am not accusing you. My statement relates to the historical egos of those who “split” the church. What the One Church founded by Christ needed was a reformation. What it got was 29,000+ bickering denominations. Some unity, huh? Any wonder that evil, in the unified body of Satan, triumphs in this world?

Unity in Christ through obedience.

I assume that you include Catholics amongst this “29000 bickering denominations” for I know personally how some love to do just that. LOL…But I am glad you weren’t calling ME a “splitter.”

 

[po18guy]

My brother in Christ,

The Universal church is, by definition, not a denomination. Those who differed and left formed denominations. My allegiance is totally to Christ. If I thought I could find his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity elsewhere, I’d be seated next to you at services.

Please try this: Attend one mass with a well catechized Catholic. Ask questions, expecting explanations. Watch as your objections slowly melt away-as mine did.

May you have the peace of Christ!

 

[Protestant101]

My brother in Christ,

The Universal church is, by definition, not a denomination. Those who differed and left formed denominations. My allegiance is totally to Christ. If I thought I could find his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity elsewhere, I’d be seated next to you at services.

Please try this: Attend one mass with a well catechized Catholic. Ask questions, expecting explanations. Watch as your objections slowly melt away-as mine did.

May you have the peace of Christ!

Actually; I have done this several times; but with me, more questions than before came up. I have more objections now than I ever did. That’s not to take away from your own personal experience; I am glad that you found a Church that you can call “Home.”

My belief is that Jesus was a Protestant, and that the Catholic Church split from the Protestants of Bible times and formed the first ‘denomination’ and then all the other ones are her ‘daughters.’

Now, you as a Catholic, may choose to call this a lie, or “anti-Catholic,” or perhaps even “hatred” however, you have a long ways to go to prove any of these three.

 

[jpaul]

Being “anti” something, does not always signify a lie. However; Catholics who choose to quote non-Adventist or ex-Adventist sources to “show” what Adventists “really believe” would be guilty of spreading lies. But I think the biggest lie starts when either side tries to attach adjectives such as “hatred” to the already exaggerated “lie” allegations.

Peace and all-good!

During my college years, I attended the “Revelation Seminar” conducted by a prominent SDA pastor here in the Philippines. The topics were full of lies, misinformation and deceptions.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[jpaul]

Actually; I have done this several times; but with me, more questions than before came up. I have more objections now than I ever did. That’s not to take away from your own personal experience; I am glad that you found a Church that you can call “Home.”

My belief is that Jesus was a Protestant, and that the Catholic Church split from the Protestants of Bible times and formed the first ‘denomination’ and then all the other ones are her ‘daughters.’

Now, you as a Catholic, may choose to call this a lie, or “anti-Catholic,” or perhaps even “hatred” however, you have a long ways to go to prove any of these three.

Peace and all-good!

Read any standard reference book from the public library my friend. All Church history books and encyclopedia tell one story:

The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and all the Protestant sects were founded by men.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[po18guy]

Actually; I have done this several times; but with me, more questions than before came up. I have more objections now than I ever did. That’s not to take away from your own personal experience; I am glad that you found a Church that you can call “Home.”

My belief is that Jesus was a Protestant, and that the Catholic Church split from the Protestants of Bible times and formed the first ‘denomination’ and then all the other ones are her ‘daughters.’

Now, you as a Catholic, may choose to call this a lie, or “anti-Catholic,” or perhaps even “hatred” however, you have a long ways to go to prove any of these three.

Think about this: Were the first 30+ years of Christians all doomed to hell because they had no bible? If not, then isn’t salvation dependent upon what came before the bible? The early Christians ate His Body and drank His Blood-just like millions do today. Since Christ Himself commanded it (John 6:53), I do it.

It is such a wonderful blessing that I must lead others to it.

Christ’s peace and you are in my prayers.

 

[jpaul]

My brother in Christ,

The Universal church is, by definition, not a denomination. Those who differed and left formed denominations. My allegiance is totally to Christ. If I thought I could find his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity elsewhere, I’d be seated next to you at services.

Please try this: Attend one mass with a well catechized Catholic. Ask questions, expecting explanations. Watch as your objections slowly melt away-as mine did.

May you have the peace of Christ!

Peace and all-good!

The Holy Mass is a sacrament of love. With due respect and holy fear to our Lord Jesus Chirst who instituted the Holy Eucharist during the Last Supper, please spare it as a venue of your apostasy.

If only you live near our parish, you are welcome to attend in our Bible study every Friday evening, “Dialoque with Protestant Pastors” every Sunday afternoon, and “Debate with Protestant Pastors” every Wednesday evening, on-air over our local Catholic radio station.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[Protestant101]

Peace and all-good!

Read any standard reference book from the public library my friend. All Church history books and encyclopedia tell one story:

The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and all the Protestant sects were founded by men.

Ave Maria!

jpaul

I have read all “standard” reference books. Not all books are the same. Not all history is of the same quality. His-Story is in the Bible.

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

There are many more lies in “standard reference books” than there are in the Bible. it depends upon whose reference points the reference books come from.

 

[jpaul]

I have read all “standard” reference books. Not all books are the same. Not all history is of the same quality. His-Story is in the Bible.

There are many more lies in “standard reference books” than there are in the Bible. it depends upon whose reference points the reference books come from.

Peace and all-good!

Give me the name of your sect and I will give you the founder of your sect with all the details from standard references.

All Protestant sects were founded by men. That’s a fact!

On the other hand, if the Roman Catholic Church was not founded by Jesus Christ, name the man who founded her. I tell you, all the standard references will tell you that the Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. That’s a fact.

In fact, it is the Roman Catholic Church through her councils who determine the canon (official collection) of the Holy Bible. That’s a fact.

Do you need references?

Ave Maria!

jpaul

 

[po18guy]

Peace and all-good!

Give me the name of your sect and I will give you the founder of your sect with all the details from standard references.

All Protestant sects were founded by men. That’s a fact!

On the other hand, if the Roman Catholic Church was not founded by Jesus Christ, name the man who founded her. I tell you, all the standard references will tell you that the Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. That’s a fact.

In fact, it is the Roman Catholic Church through her councils who determine the canon (official collection) of the Holy Bible. That’s a fact.

Do you need references?

Ave Maria!

jpaul

jpaul,

The more scripture we quote and the more logic we apply, the more some retreat from it!? I am praying for them, as they obviously love Christ very much. But, some of the beliefs I have to confront such as believing that Christ was a Protestant and that the “Catholic” church split off, or that the Catholic church uses “extra books” of scripture are just too tortured to analyze. It appears that “revisionist Christianity” has quite a foothold, attempting to segue somehow from the cross to the 29,000+ denominations of today. Only ONE church is right, and has not changed over the millennia. If you can only speak of years, decades or centuries of history regarding whatever church you subscribe to, can it be the true faith? Let’s you and I pray that their minds and hearts are opened to the truth. So many posters on these forums have testified to the attractiveness and purity of the truth that drew them to conversion and/or reversion to Catholicism. We can debate this until we drop, but we end up being distracted from our commandment to make disciples of all nations.

ONE Church, ONE God.

 

[Petergee]

I am not sure that I actually called anything specifically “a Catholic lie” about Adventists. But there are a number of threads on this forum where Catholics quote Evangelicals for “truth” about us. This would be classed as spreading lies; although in some cases, unknowingly.

So you ARE saying that some Catholics lie about SDAs. Yet oddly you haven’t given any links to these supposed lies. If some Catholics lie about SDAs, I am siorry to hear about their sin. But the topic of this thread is that Protestant apologists not only choose to, but **need **to lie about the CC. Not some of them some of the time, but all of them all of the time.

I know that this topic is not about hatred; however, because some Catholics here are choosing to call it hatred when someone (usually Protestants) says something in disagreement with them; and I am saying that too is a lie. That’s a lie which may in fact be hateful in some cases.

Calling one’s different understandings “lies” is OK, but we cross the line when we try to say it is hatred whenever someone disagrees with our theology. Accusing us of deliberately lying and of hatred, may in fact be hatred towards Protestants.

All I am saying is that both sides could well afford to drop adjectives like hatred and lying from this discussion. We are no different than you. We speak and write what we believe, not intending to lie or to hate in any form.

NO! NO! NO! How many times do I have to say this on this thread? We are NOT talking about “Disagreements over doctrine”: Disagreements over doctrine are not lies if both people sincerely hold their respective beliefs. Disagree as much as you like with us, we don’t call that lying about us or hatred of us.

We are talking about the apparent fact that ALL Protestant apologists, EVERY TIME they mount an argument for the falsity of Catholicism, grossly distort (i.e. lie) about incontrovertible historical facts and/or about what Catholics believe and do.

 

[Petergee]

I have read all “standard” reference books. Not all books are the same. Not all history is of the same quality. His-Story is in the Bible.

There are many more lies in “standard reference books” than there are in the Bible. it depends upon whose reference points the reference books come from.

And the Bible tells you that the SDAs were the true original Church founded by Jesus Christ in 30AD? Chapter and verse please?

 

[Protestant101]

And the Bible tells you that the SDAs were the true original Church founded by Jesus Christ in 30AD? Chapter and verse please?

As soon as you give me chapter and verse for the catholic position.

 

[BeeSweet]

As soon as you give me chapter and verse for the catholic position.

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

 

[Protestant101]

So you ARE saying that some Catholics lie about SDAs. Yet oddly you haven’t given any links to these supposed lies. If some Catholics lie about SDAs, I am siorry to hear about their sin. But the topic of this thread is that Protestant apologists not only choose to, but **need **to lie about the CC. Not some of them some of the time, but all of them all of the time.

This is the first Catholic lie I can point to since you asked; although it is not nearly the only one. But lets start with this one. My thought is that this actually is not a specifically “Catholic” lie, only that it is a lie that Catholics repeat about Protestants. Obviously, this “lie” is not a “doctrine” as you have said, but it is a false characterization which you have only claimed, but have failed miserably to “prove.”

To be honest; I don’t know how you can ever prove this point because only God knows the heart; yet you seem to know it just as well as He.

At any rate; I will wait patiently for your proof that ALL Protestants deliberately lie about Catholics and the Catholic Church. For eg., me. How can you prove that I am lying? Deliberately lying? What specifically have I “lied about” in this thread? I don’t think you can even tell us that one let alone any others.

 

[Protestant101]

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

This verse does not say “Catholic” anywhere in it. neither does it refer to “Peter.” It refers to Jesus. Catholics branched off into their own denomination, and separated themselves from Jesus, the Head Protestant, and His disciples in 30 AD

 

[BeeSweet]

This verse does not say “Catholic” anywhere in it. neither does it refer to “Peter.” It refers to Jesus. Catholics branched off into their own denomination, and separated themselves from Jesus, the Head Protestant, and His disciples in 30 AD

Peter means the “rock” this is the name Jesus gave him, changing his name from Simon, surely you’ve read this. Ever learn any other languages? Peter is the rock. Spanish: piedras = rock; French pierre = rock; Italian: pietra = rock; Greek petra = rock.

Jesus referred to Peter as the rock. Surely you do not argue with Him?

You do realise Peter is buried under the Vatican, And that he is the first pope of the Catholic church? The Christian church.

 

[Petergee]

This is the first Catholic lie I can point to since you asked; although it is not nearly the only one. But lets start with this one. My thought is that this actually is not a specifically “Catholic” lie, only that it is a lie that Catholics repeat about Protestants. Obviously, this “lie” is not a “doctrine” as you have said, but it is a false characterization which you have only claimed, but have failed miserably to “prove.”

I have spent this whole thread asking, pleading and begging anyone to show me just one Protestant apologist who argues against Catholicism without lying. Neither you nor anyone else has been able to point to one example. You can’t blame me for concluding that apparently none exists.

To be honest; I don’t know how you can ever prove this point because only God knows the heart; yet you seem to know it just as well as He.

If I see someone take some money that doesn’t belong to him, it’s true I don’t know his heart: maybe he was never taught that stealing is wrong, maybe it’s the only way he can provide for his family, etc. But that doesn’t stop me from making the objective judgment that he stole. In the same way, when I see someone say something that is an obviously and grossly false misrepresentation of the CC’s easily-discovered beliefs, practices and history, then I conclude he is either naively ignorant or a liar. If it is obvious that he is intelligent, educated and has had ample opportunity to discover the facts, then it is obvious that he is deliberately lying. Now possibly his personal guilt is diluted (not completely blotted out) by his feelings eg being comfortable in a certain cultural mindset and looking for things to shore it up, maybe feelings of attachment to antiCatholic friends and family, I don’t know. But a lie is still a lie.

At any rate; I will wait patiently for your proof that ALL Protestants deliberately lie about Catholics and the Catholic Church. For eg., me. How can you prove that I am lying? Deliberately lying? What specifically have I “lied about” in this thread? I don’t think you can even tell us that one let alone any others.

For a start, the first sentence of this paragraph is a barefaced lie. I said that all protestant apologists who presaent an argument against Catholicism lie in the process. It is yet another gross distortion to assert that I said “that** ALL **protestants deliberately lie about Catholics and the Catholic Church.”

Oh well, what should I expect from someone affiliated with the organisation which for 150 years has invented and propagated more of the most bizarre and hate-filled lies about Catholics and Catholicism than any other protestant denomination. And that’s sure saying something!

Oh yeah, still waiting for your promised Bible passage where Jesus says that He’s going to build His True Church on Ellen Gould White. This should be good.