Why do Protestants become Catholic?

[ScottH]

Alfie:

IT’S DOCTRINE! Where is your testimony about sin and how Jesus changed your life? Even if 99% of Catholic doctrine was correct its that incorrect 1% doctrine that will “damn you to hell”. More and more Protestants are becoming Catholic because they are more interested in unity than truth. They are deceived. This “can’t we all just get along” and “we are the world” attitude has got to stop". A relationship with Jesus is about truth…not numbers. If there was only one true Evangelical believer left in this world it would be a threat to Catholicism. That one believer represents the truth and they are terrifed of it. Have you never been taught about the book of Revelations? The world is heading into a one world religion. That means it will be centered in Rome. Someday Rome will be hunting down all of the “true” Christians in the world and killing them. Wise up before it is to late and on this note it has been nice knowing you as I am sure to be banned for this post.

Alfie,Alfie, Alfie…
As a former Protestant who used to say the same thing, … are you “Droppin’ the Tim LaHaye Bomb” here, or what? (I know…your response will be “Read Revelations”)

…save it.

I see you are a member of the ever-growing evangelical “Pre-Millenialism Or Bust” club? Tell me, how many years has the pre-millenial line of thought- particularly about the physical rapture- been the current line of thinking in mainline protestantism’s interpretation of Revelations?

The pre-millenialism line of thinking dates back to … oh, 1830… by the not-so-famous John Nelson Darby and only came into relative favor in the last 25 years, partly because of a series of books by a very anti-Roman Catholic Timothy LaHaye.

Hey bro, meanwhile many protestant denoms are adopting ultra-liberal theologies, gender neutral hymnals, Joel Osteen and Brian McLaren are saying *there’s no “real” Hell, and God is too nice to do that", *Presbyterians are on the verge of allowing gay/transexual ordination, same for the Episcopals, and many non-denom Protestants are either falling into Neo-Pentacostal wild-proclamation charismatic worship, and the mega-churches are softening up the hard message in exchange for more butts on seats and tithe’s in trays (Olsteen-type “feelgoodism”) and Rick Warren is promoting a “softer” sinners prayer… and, meanwhile, pastors are reporting altar-call numbers as if they know exactly how many souls their services saved on a given day…Meanwhile, Jack and Rexella Van Impe are predicting Armageddon will be here within a couple years. (They really missed the mark the other …oh…four times they predicted it in the past.)

…and you want to talk about the problems of the Roman Catholic Church? You had better aim real true with those rotten tomatoes, my man.

They tend to have a “boomerang” effect.

Signed,
One who’s been hit by my own tomatoes in the past…

ScottH

 

[believers]

djrakowski:

Now I understand more clearly (I think). You’re upset with the Church because some folks in your close circle of friends and family didn’t get what She was teaching?

Yes, in a way, but rather, a lack thereof. I blame the people too but mostly the church.

By contrast, are there absolutely no ‘lukewarms’ in the pews of your new evangelical church? I new plenty of 'em in mine!

My current church is small… maybe 50-70 people. I can honestly say that the majority is on fire. Sometimes I wonder if I’m lukewarm. Well. love to stay and chat but I’ve got service in a hour.

 

[Church_Militant]

believers:

No problem… I don’t take anything here personally. Anyway, I’m here saying that many Catholics devote only 1 hour on Sunday. If that’s the case, then something must be said in mass to wake them up about salvation. This is the only time they’ll ever hear it. They need to be told that Sunday mass is not a free ticket into Heaven. There’s more to it than just showing up on Sunday and receiving the Eucharist.

One, this presupposes that “most” Catholics are that way…devoting only one hour a week to God when no one can say for sure.

I would think that in the case of the folks here on CAF that you would find yourself preaching to the choir, because most of us are probably more active than that by a long way. I know I am, and that level is steadily increasing.

Something IS said at Mass to wake us up…It’s called the Liturgy of the Word and the Homily, which, in my experience is at least as good as anything I have ever heard in any other church that I was part of. Better in most cases because we leave out the comparison and contrast with other religions & other extraneous stuff.

As for the Eucharist, your statement ignores the fact that every reception of that sacrament (and all the others as well) brings increased grace and that is one aspect of God dealing with each person who receives. Your statement also presupposes that a Catholic who is regularly particiating at Mass is lacking something in their salvation, which implies something else again. In my own experience I have never had better assurance of my salvation.
Pax tecum,

 

[djrakowski]

believers:

Yes, in a way, but rather, a lack thereof. I blame the people too but mostly the church.

What is it in Catholic theology on salvation that causes you such problems? What announcement in Mass about salvation would satisfy your need to explicity hear this message?

believers:

My current church is small… maybe 50-70 people. I can honestly say that the majority is on fire. Sometimes I wonder if I’m lukewarm.

If you’re lukewarm, what standard are you using for comparison? If you’re lukewarm, how do you know you’re really saved?

You can honestly say the majority are on fire at your church, but:

1. how do you know their hearts? how do you know they’re really saved, or just puttin’ on a show? (my wife and I were really good at puttin’ on a show, and nobody knew how much fear and doubt were in our lives). It really is presumptuous that you would claim to know with such certainty that all these apparently on-fire folks in your church are saved, and all those apparently not-on-fire ‘pew-sitters’ in other churches aren’t!
2. if you’re right, and the majority at your church are as you say, then any church in which that’s not the case must not really be Christian, or teaching the message of salvation in a way of which you approve, or at all?

believers:

Well. love to stay and chat but I’ve got service in a hour.

Enjoy your service. I’m working on getting up early for daily Mass again, but 6am is awfully early

 

[magdelaine]

believers:

I was wondering when someone was going to post the Nicene Creed. I happen to know this one by heart. It’s all about believing in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Now, where in the prayer does it tell you that you must obey Jesus? It’s not good enough to just believe. Lukewarm refers to those believers who do not obey. Everyone needs to know that they must obey. That means to live the life of a faithful true believer in Christ every day and not just on Sunday. The Nicene Creed does not convey the true message of salvation.

Hmmm, you are correct in that it is not a “how-to” on salvation, but it was not meant to be. It is simply a statement of faith, and it’s pretty important in what it does state. However, one need only know “the Greatest Commandment” and the message of salvation is complete albeit on the simplest level possible.

 

[Church_Militant]

believers:

Yes, in a way, but rather, a lack thereof. I blame the people too but mostly the church.

My current church is small… maybe 50-70 people. I can honestly say that the majority is on fire. Sometimes I wonder if I’m lukewarm. Well. love to stay and chat but I’ve got service in a hour.

So …lemme see if this makes sense now. If someone attends a church and still remains unconverted then it is the church’s fault and not that person’s? So then you feel comfortable in blaming the church and not the individual?

Ezekiel 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: and thou shalt hear the word out of my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. 18 If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 19 But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Moreover if the just man shall turn away from his justice, and shall commit iniquity: I will lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die, because thou hast not given him warning: he shall die in his sin, and his justices which he hath done, shall not be remembered: but I will require his blood at thy hand.

21 But if thou warn the just man, that the just may not sin, and he doth not sin: living he shall live, because thou hast warned him, and thou hast delivered thy soul.

Let’s just make sure that we have this in the proper Biblical perspective …

 

[valient_Lucy]

ScottH:

Alfie,Alfie, Alfie…
As a former Protestant who used to say the same thing, … are you “Droppin’ the Tim LaHaye Bomb” here, or what? (I know…your response will be “Read Revelations”)

…save it.

I see you are a member of the ever-growing evangelical “Pre-Millenialism Or Bust” club? Tell me, how many years has the pre-millenial line of thought- particularly about the physical rapture- been the current line of thinking in mainline protestantism’s interpretation of Revelations?

The pre-millenialism line of thinking dates back to … oh, 1830… by the not-so-famous John Nelson Darby and only came into relative favor in the last 25 years, partly because of a series of books by a very anti-Roman Catholic Timothy LaHaye.

Hey bro, meanwhile many protestant denoms are adopting ultra-liberal theologies, gender neutral hymnals, Joel Osteen and Brian McLaren are saying *there’s no “real” Hell, and God is too nice to do that", *Presbyterians are on the verge of allowing gay/transexual ordination, same for the Episcopals, and many non-denom Protestants are either falling into Neo-Pentacostal wild-proclamation charismatic worship, and the mega-churches are softening up the hard message in exchange for more butts on seats and tithe’s in trays (Olsteen-type “feelgoodism”) and Rick Warren is promoting a “softer” sinners prayer… and, meanwhile, pastors are reporting altar-call numbers as if they know exactly how many souls their services saved on a given day…Meanwhile, Jack and Rexella Van Impe are predicting Armageddon will be here within a couple years. (They really missed the mark the other …oh…four times they predicted it in the past.)

…and you want to talk about the problems of the Roman Catholic Church? You had better aim real true with those rotten tomatoes, my man.

They tend to have a “boomerang” effect.

Signed,
One who’s been hit by my own tomatoes in the past…

ScottH

He’s right.

 

[magdelaine]

Thirst4Him:

I love you all and am head over heals in love with my Saviour. He is my all in all and I can’t get enough of Him.
Blessings to you.
Thirsty

Then I am confident that you will find your way Home. There is nothing like Christ our Lord in the Eucharist, nothing at all. I can hardly take communion without balling like a baby anymore. Don’t let the dry Mass experience drive you away; the Truth is in the Church even if it’s hard to see sometimes. The fact is that the laity of the Church are in serious need of renewal, and some of the clergy as well. Did you know that Scott Hahn was actually asked why he should even bother converting by one of the first priests he talked to? Talk about missing the message!! And that was a priest!!

 

[mozart-250]

ScottH:

and Rick Warren is promoting a “softer” sinners prayer…

…Umm…I don’t know about the other names on the list but I will defend Rick Warren. Our church is going through “Purpose Driven Life” for Lent…wonderful book…

And since Catholics don’t do sinners prayer, why would this bother you anyway.

I’ve read some Catholic Priests are associated with Rick Warren in some way (dunno how it all works)…just saying…

Oh and I was peeking at that Baptists boards website (just curious) and they dislike Rick Warren as much as they do Catholics…just saying…

Are there any evangelicals you do like? How about Billy Graham? How about CS Lewis?

Sheesh.

BTW good to hear pope Benedictus pope and I have good musical taste. From what I have read of his writings I am as impressed with him as the previous pontiff. Never knew Mozart was Catholic…thought the “Magic Flute” was Free Masonry and all that.

 

[AquinasXVI]

mozart-250:

…And since Catholics don’t do sinners prayer, why would this bother you anyway.

Actually the Catholics have been doing the sinners prayer since day one, it is called by many names: The Confeitor (done every Sunday Mass), Act of Contrition (after examination of conscience and after the Sacrament of Confession). The difference is we do ‘the sinner’s prayer’ all of the time…not a one time event.

Confeitor: I confess to Almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned through my own fault, thoughts and words, in what I’ve done and what I’ve failed to do. And I ask the most blessed Virgin, all the angels and saints, and to you my brothers and sisters to pray for me to the Lord, Our God.

Act of Contrition: O Lord, have mercy on me a sinner.

There are other Acts of Contritions too, but this one is biblical.

in XT.

 

[magdelaine]

mozart-250:
Mass in C minor was only one of the many masses he wrote, right? Protestants don’t have masses, do they?? (I really don’t know for sure). I do know that his first patron was the Church in Salzberg.

I love Mozart too, btw.

Oh, and doesn’t the act of contrition count as a sinner’s prayer?

 

[mozart-250]

AquinasXVI:

Actually the Catholics have been doing the sinners prayer since day one

Ok…I’ll reword this to “since Catholics don’t do sinners prayer at the end of Mass as a mechanism to aid the unconverted in receiving Christ”…

…the point still stands…why should a Catholic be bothered one way or another if a non-Catholic advocates changing something that if they do the same thing; they do much differently themselves…better?

(I tend to have a cow when some names that I actually like are lumped in with…well…some shall I say seem flakier).

The Mass is actually a quite common musical form since the 17th Century. I’ll get back and see what composers wrote Masses and whether they were Catholic. I gave some thought to trying my hand at one as a project in a Composition class I took in college but I knew when to quit).

 

[Eden]

Act of Contrition

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended You. I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend You, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Your grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

The “Act of Contrition” is a daily “sinner’s prayer”. We used to say this every day when I was in Catholic school.

By the way, Mozart was Catholic. That is a fact. Have you read any biographies about him?

 

[valient_Lucy]

mozart-250:

Are there any evangelicals you do like? How about Billy Graham? How about CS Lewis?

Sheesh.

I went to a Billy Graham crusade when I was in fourth grade. Went with my mom. I think he’s done some good things.
As to C.S. Lewis, take a look at my signature. If it doesn’t ring a bell, go back and read The Lion, the Witch, and The Wardrobe. While we’re at it, we should all go back and read it again. Awesome book.

 

[valient_Lucy]

mozart-250:

The Mass is actually a quite common musical form since the 17th Century. I’ll get back and see what composers wrote Masses and whether they were Catholic. I gave some thought to trying my hand at one as a project in a Composition class I took in college but I knew when to quit).

Catholic or not, I’ll never forgive Motzart for not finishing his Mass in C Minor.

 

[AquinasXVI]

mozart-250:

Ok…I’ll reword this to “since Catholics don’t do sinners prayer at the end of Mass as a mechanism to aid the unconverted in receiving Christ”…

…the point still stands…why should a Catholic be bothered one way or another if a non-Catholic advocates changing something that if they do the same thing; they do much differently themselves…better?

Better…that’s subjective.

Besides, as an example, the Liturgy of the Eucharist can hardly be improved upon since Christ called it the New and Everlasting Covenant…it would be presumptious to think of the “Even Newer than the New and Everlasting Covenant.”

I don’t understand the reword section—we ask for petitions within the Mass and we do pray for everyone.

in XT.

P.S. I did notice Masonic stuff when I saw the Magic Flute.

 

[Eden]

You never know what you are going to find in the CA library:

www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9905fea1.asp

Mozart was baptised and raised in the Catholic faith and has been mentioned earlier, he composed for the Church. I think there is a later question as to his status as a Catholic. He may have fallen away from faith. He wasn’t Protestant, however.

 

[Jeanette_L]

ScottH:

Alfie,Alfie, Alfie…
As a former Protestant who used to say the same thing, … are you “Droppin’ the Tim LaHaye Bomb” here, or what? (I know…your response will be “Read Revelations”)

ScottH

This is a timely post for me personally as my parents “left behind” a photocopied portion of a book by Tim Lahaye for me today.

It was the old standby “The Babylonian Whore - The Roman Catholic Church” blahblahblah. As Easter Vigil is approaching, the rhetoric is getting more extreme, and I’m seeing how ridiculous all of this is, and I used to buy into it. I am so completely ashamed of my former behavior and mindset, and I am so thankful that the Lord gave me the grace to see outside of that box that the Fundamentalists soooo wish to keep you in by using fear and intimidation. I’m free, really free of that. I feel so blessed! :yup:

 

[MariaG]

believers:

No problem… I don’t take anything here personally. Anyway, I’m here saying that many Catholics devote only 1 hour on Sunday. If that’s the case, then something must be said in mass to wake them up about salvation. This is the only time they’ll ever hear it. They need to be told that Sunday mass is not a free ticket into Heaven. There’s more to it than just showing up on Sunday and receiving the Eucharist.

Problem is they are being told that. (Some may not be but they are truly in the minority.) ** They are not listening**.

It’s kind of funny. Usually Catholics are accused of having “too many rules” You know, the “obey” part of Christianity.

You are trying to tell us that we don’t preach enough of the “obey” part.

Kind of ironic.

But the good news is this. It is much easier to help a Catholic become on fire for God within the Catholic Church than it is to pull them out of it. Why don’t you try learning more about what the Mass really means and educate your family and friends so they stop being lukewarm, (if you can even call them even mildly warm).

Here is a nice tract. How Catholics Hear the Gospel

As well as things like this. You know the part in Mass where you say “Peace be with you” to those around you? This is not supposed to be a time to just greet everyone, this is a time to declare to those around you that Christ is Risen! Peace be with you are the first words the Risen Christ spoke to the Apostles.

This is not a greeting time! It is testimony time!!!

Learn about and share these things with your Catholic family and friends in order to help them become on fire for the Lord, right there in the Catholic Church.

What is your intent, help them to serve Christ or get them to leave the Catholic Church? You can help them to become on fire for Christ right where they are in the Catholic Church. Ask yourself, what do you really want, A Catholic Christian on fire for Christ? That can be done right now, right where they are. You can help, believers. You can help them live their lives for Christ, right there in the Catholic Church.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[ScottH]

mozart-250:

…Umm…I don’t know about the other names on the list but I will defend Rick Warren. Our church is going through “Purpose Driven Life” for Lent…wonderful book…

And since Catholics don’t do sinners prayer, why would this bother you anyway.

I’ve read some Catholic Priests are associated with Rick Warren in some way (dunno how it all works)…just saying…

Oh and I was peeking at that Baptists boards website (just curious) and they dislike Rick Warren as much as they do Catholics…just saying…

Are there any evangelicals you do like? How about Billy Graham? How about CS Lewis?

Sheesh.

BTW good to hear pope Benedictus pope and I have good musical taste. From what I have read of his writings I am as impressed with him as the previous pontiff. Never knew Mozart was Catholic…thought the “Magic Flute” was Free Masonry and all that.

Mozart-
As a fairly new Roman Catholic- who was a protestant for 30 years- those things I outlined are reasons why I stopped being a “protestant” last year.

How could I “protest” the Roman Catholic faith? (Admittedly one I didn’t understand very well) But how could I do it in light of the sheer amount of bull-shcrap going on within that which I was witnessing as a Protestant?

Remember, I’m not writing so much as a Roman Catholic who’s taking shots at the Protestants, I’m writing as a former Protestant who left that mess BECAUSE of what was going on within.

But there’s this unwritten code of “Omerta” within protestant denoms. That rule is "As long as the Roman Catholics exist, we’ll do our best to not pick on each other too much despite our own heresies, because we can at least rest easy in the knowledge that "at least we aren’t Catholic!"

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Lemme tell you, my phone never rang so much in my life as when “friends” who are Protestant people from my town found out I was attending the Roman Catholic Church.

It wasn’t kind, lemme tell ya.

One woman from my old Presby church called me and said she wonders if I’m* “strong enough to avoid the LIES of Roman Catholicism”*. I asked her how she can say that when she’s a Pentacostal who can’t stand Presbyterianism and all the **** going on in the PCUSA general assembly, but goes anyway because her husband makes her?

She said its "one thing to be in a denomination that’s falling, but its another to be…one of ‘Them’ in the Roman Catholic Church."

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But that’s how it goes. Thats the mindset with many people. There’s no reservations about airing dirty laundry about the Roman Catholic Church (true or not)…

But do it back…and …wow, they don’t like it.

As for Rick Warren, there’s nuggets of wisdom in his book. There’s always nuggets of wisdom in most people and churches that proclaim Christ as the savior. You just have to know what is gold and what is pyrite.

But that’s anywhere.

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